Explanation of the zone blitz out of a 3-4

[unoriginal]

okay, why would you love when DC put their SS into the boundary. Is it because it weakens the "weak side of the field" due to the FS patrol the middle of the deep field?

Putting the strong side of the defense into the boundary in all formations means the wide side is more susceptible to running.

Putting the SS into the boundary in a cover three also puts your weaker flat guy into space (WOLB).

You can "put" the SS player into the boundary but call the front 7 strength to field, that's a nice compromise if you're running cover 2.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Putting the strong side of the defense into the boundary in all formations means the wide side is more susceptible to running.

Putting the SS into the boundary in a cover three also puts your weaker flat guy into space (WOLB).

You can "put" the SS player into the boundary but call the front 7 strength to field, that's a nice compromise if you're running cover 2.

okay, you are saying you shade the DL and LB to the "field side" right, to help against the run? Right?

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

thanks again Triple Option. I love learning stuff. I apologize earlier...I thought you were just some guy who was dumping on me just for fun. Thanks again. You know your stuff.

 

[unoriginal]

okay, you are saying you shade the DL and LB to the "field side" right, to help against the run? Right?

Yes. Strength in terms of the front seven will often mean four to the strong side, three on the weak. You don't need four people on the short side of the field to defend "the" boundary. Think of the boundary as an extra defender.

 

[unoriginal]

thanks again Triple Option. I love learning stuff. I apologize earlier...I thought you were just some guy who was dumping on me just for fun. Thanks again. You know your stuff.

Hopefully we didn't drive him away.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Yes. Strength in terms of the front seven will often mean four to the strong side, three on the weak. You don't need four people on the short side of the field to defend "the" boundary. Think of the boundary as an extra defender.

ok I get it. Thanks.

In the scenario of the SS being in the boundary, even if you shaded the DL and LB to the "field" side, a cover-3 sky would be weak because of all the space they play in (unless they shift pre-snap). A cover-1, man-to-man on the outside would be safer. Which means if a QB saw a SS in the boundary, it probably would mean man-to-man cover 1. Right? Or am I reading to much into it?

 

[unoriginal]

ok I get it. Thanks.

In the scenario of the SS being in the boundary, even if you shaded the DL and LB to the "field" side, a cover-3 sky would be weak because of all the space they play in (unless they shift pre-snap). A cover-1, man-to-man on the outside would be safer. Which means if a QB saw a SS in the boundary, it probably would mean man-to-man cover 1. Right? Or am I reading to much into it?

The two flat players in a cover three sky are a safety and a linebacker. If the offense is on a hash you want the safety in space and the linebacker into the boundary, because the safety is the better player in space. So if you're saying the sky (safety force) is being run into the boundary, yes, that would be suboptimal.

But when you say "cover 3 sky" in terms of the "sky" Triple has been using, you still need to specify additional information. Which side are you running sky to? You can have the SS short side but run sky towards the wide side: in that case the SS would cover the middle and the FS would take the flat. You'll see something like that happen if an offense motions a TE to wide side; the SS will walk back to 12 yards and the FS will creep down into the box.

So if the SS is short side pre-snap is not the QB's only read.

And typically cover 3 is always safer than man. Man doesn't protect the deep field like zone does, especially a three deep zone.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

The two flat players in a cover three sky are a safety and a linebacker. If the offense is on a hash you want the safety in space and the linebacker into the boundary, because the safety is the better player in space. So if you're saying the sky (safety force) is being run into the boundary, yes, that would be suboptimal.

But when you say "cover 3 sky" in terms of the "sky" Triple has been using, you still need to specify additional information. Which side are you running sky to? You can have the SS short side but run sky towards the wide side: in that case the SS would cover the middle and the FS would take the flat. You'll see something like that happen if an offense motions a TE to wide side; the SS will walk back to 12 yards and the FS will creep down into the box.

So if the SS is short side pre-snap is not the QB's only read.

And typically cover 3 is always safer than man. Man doesn't protect the deep field like zone does, especially a three deep zone.

yeah, the sky-play in my head....here let me draw it up. The right hand side is the boundary side.

.................FS........
...............................SS
.......LB......LB....LB....LB
CB......DE.....NT......DE........CB

If the SS is the force/pitch defender/blitzer on the boundary side, and it is say, third and 10, if the defense isn't shading pre-snap into a cover-3, that would be sub-optimal, so wouldn't it be correct for the QB to assume its cover-1, man-to-man?

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

but run sky towards the wide side: in that case the SS would cover the middle and the FS would take the flat. You'll see something like that happen if an offense motions a TE to wide side; the SS will walk back to 12 yards and the FS will creep down into the box.

In my diagram, the FS is the boundary player.
.................SS........
......FS..................
.......LB......LB....LB....LB
CB......DE.....NT......DE........CB

okay the defense runs sky to the "wide side" if the TE motions across the field to wide side. Okay, I get. That way the FS in my diagram would cover the flat.

 

[unoriginal]

yeah, the sky-play in my head....here let me draw it up. The right hand side is the boundary side.

.................FS........
...............................SS
.......LB......LB....LB....LB
CB......DE.....NT......DE........CB

If the SS is the force/pitch defender/blitzer on the boundary side, and it is say, third and 10, if the defense isn't shading pre-snap into a cover-3, that would be sub-optimal, so wouldn't it be correct for the QB to assume its cover-1, man-to-man?

I assume that the SS is lined up over a TE.

I'd like to answer you but I can't. I have no clue what the QB is reading in that situation. I was a receiver and defensive back. It could very well look like man or cover3 presnap, yes. The assumption presnap would depend on the gameplan.

The CBs will take deep drops for a cover 3, and they won't in man-to-man. That would be the first clue for the receivers. The free will play it much the same in either cover3 or man, drop back and read the QB. Probably the best read for the QB would be what the linebackers do. If the ROLB (defensive perspective) in your diagram shoots into the flat, its cover three. And least that's what I expect.

 

[unoriginal]

In my diagram, the FS is the boundary player.
.................SS........
......FS..................
.......LB......LB....LB....LB
CB......DE.....NT......DE........CB

okay the defense runs sky to the "wide side" if the TE motions across the field to wide side. Okay, I get. That way the FS in my diagram would cover the flat.

No no no, if the FS is to the boundary in that diagram and your tight end motions to the right (offensive perspective), you'll audible to sky left (defensive perspective) and the SS will come down to the flat and the FS will cover middle third. You want the linebacker in the boundary flat, and the safety in the field flat.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

I assume that the SS is lined up over a TE.

I'd like to answer you but I can't. I have no clue what the QB is reading in that situation. I was a receiver and defensive back. It could very well look like man or cover3 presnap, yes. The assumption presnap would depend on the gameplan.

The CBs will take deep drops for a cover 3, and they won't in man-to-man. That would be the first clue for the receivers. The free will play it much the same in either cover3 or man, drop back and read the QB. Probably the best read for the QB would be what the linebackers do. If the ROLB (defensive perspective) in your diagram shoots into the flat, its cover three. And least that's what I expect.

ok...........thanks

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

You want the linebacker in the boundary flat, and the safety in the field flat.

Ohh....okay, I see. The safety is better in space, than the linebacker. OK I get it.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

so you got to play Troy Brown style, WR/CB. huh? Which did you find easier?

 

[unoriginal]

so you got to play Troy Brown style, WR/CB. huh? Which did you find easier?

Like every football position, they are both very challenging. But I'll say receiver is easier. It is not as athletically demanding.

I spent the majority of my time at corner, oddly enough after I had played at safety and wide receiver. Usually the transition goes the other way around. Much like Troy Brown, having spent time at wide receiver greatly helped my understanding of what the offense was trying to do to me on any given pass play. Triple might disagree with this, but in my experience high school route trees are pretty simple, and consequently you can puzzle them out pretty quick if you've run most of them yourself. If you can figure that out in the first five steps, have enough ability not to look like a clown out there, and know where your help is, you can succeed at corner. Like I said, the athletic ability is the hard part, and what I ultimately lacked in college ball.

Wide receivers don't usually have to get into the head of the defensive back like that, nor do they have to cut so abruptly. Nor are they asked to tackle in space.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Like every football position, they are both very challenging. But I'll say receiver is easier. It is not as athletically demanding.

I spent the majority of my time at corner, oddly enough after I had played at safety and wide receiver. Usually the transition goes the other way around. Much like Troy Brown, having spent time at wide receiver greatly helped my understanding of what the offense was trying to do to me on any given pass play. Triple might disagree with this, but in my experience high school route trees are pretty simple, and consequently you can puzzle them out pretty quick if you've run most of them yourself. If you can figure that out in the first five steps, have enough ability not to look like a clown out there, and know where your help is, you can succeed at corner. Like I said, the athletic ability is the hard part, and what I ultimately lacked in college ball.

Wide receivers don't usually have to get into the head of the defensive back like that, nor do they have to cut so abruptly. Nor are they asked to tackle in space.

well, thanks unoriginal for explaining the stuff for me. I really enjoyed it. I am getting tired, so I'm going to sign out now. Thanks again. I just realized with this thread, I got over a 1,000 posts.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Incidentally, a CB blitzing off the edge resulted in the most famous rule in NE Patriots history. The tuck rule. Charles Woodson (the boundary CB) blitzed and blind-sided Tom Brady. I just watched Tom Brady explain what happened on "America's Game --2001" during that play, and he said that it looked like it was open on his left side (the wide side of the field), but sure enough it was a zone blitz and Woodson came off the edge.

And the rest, as they say was history...........

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

okay, don't hate me unoriginal or Triple but I'm bored to death and was wondering if either of you guys ever played a 4-6, or the nickel 1-5-5 (a weird formation that I heard about) like so.... I am assuming, with only one DL, to say it doesn't respect the run is an understatement.


.............................FS..........................SS................
.........................................................................
CB................NCB............ILB.......ILB..............................CB
.................................LB................LB.........LB
..........................................NT...................................

From what I heard, the strong-side LB is lined up real wide and is a speedster who can get to the QB. The only time I ever remember anything closely related to the nickel 1-5-5, was when BB one year had no down lineman. My other question, is if you replaced that strong-side LB who is lined up real wide with a dime CB, wouldn't that be a dime 1-4-6? I will admit I have never heard of the dime 1-4-6.

 

[NE_Paddy]

Absolutely superb and informative thread here.

Keep it up.

 

[TripleOption]

okay, why would you love when DC put their SS into the boundary. Is it because it weakens the "weak side of the field" due to the FS patrol the middle of the deep field?

Because he is the Pitch defender. Put him into the Boundary, and I can run the Veer to the Wide side of the field and they are short one man. Option Football, 2 on 1 equals big gain.