Explanation of the zone blitz out of a 3-4

[PATRIOTS-80]

This board is one of the best places to learn new stuff. I learn new stuff all the time.

 

[frankiesfly]

do teams run both the 3-4 and 4-3 or do they run the same all the time? i really dont know. like do some teams run a little of both.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

This board is one of the best places to learn new stuff. I learn new stuff all the time.

Assuming some truthfulness on the internet, and previous exchanges with another individual who we also get to take at face value, Triple Option is reportedly a High School coach who teaches some of these things to aspiring football players. I'm rather fond of you both so I share this just for the entertainment value.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Assuming some truthfulness on the internet, and previous exchanges with another individual who we also get to take at face value, Triple Option is reportedly a High School coach who teaches some of these things to aspiring football players. I'm rather fond of you both so I share this just for the entertainment value.

Hey its all entertainment, and its all for fun. You have to have thick skin to post on the internet.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

My God, I can't even get into the inaccuracies in that article.

So, you get all your football knowledge from a reporter that got it 3rd hand and has no fundamental understanding of what he is writing?

Please explain the inaccuracies in the article, in depth. I am not above learning something new.

Here's the link to the article.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/08/15/ramblings/strategy-minicamps/2765/

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

Wrong. Sky means the Safety is the Flat/Force. Cloud means the CB has the Flat/Force.

With a sky coverage, it is possible the safety can blitz or have an underneath coverage assignment (which could free up a LB to blitz in a zone blitz). Am I right? If not, please explain.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

That really is just an exchange as well. If you line up in a Two shell and roll to Three, bringing the CB off the short side. If the QB gets it to the X before the OLB gets to the Flat you are scr*wed. The Safety who has the deep third is 12-15 yards deep on the hash.

okay, after reading it again, I can see where you are coming from. In high school, the play probably wouldn't work. The OLB wouldn't be atheletic enough to get to the flat, and the safety playing the deep third would hopefully make the tackle, but it would be a first down.

 

[frankiesfly]

i guess you guys dont want to help with my question in post #42. would appreciate an answer im real curious about it.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

With a sky coverage, it is possible the safety can blitz or have an underneath coverage assignment (which could free up a LB to blitz in a zone blitz). Am I right? If not, please explain.

Sky means the SS has the Flat pass coverage and is the Force run defender. He can blitz, but that would void the strong flat.

 

[TripleOption]

do teams run both the 3-4 and 4-3 or do they run the same all the time? i really dont know. like do some teams run a little of both.

Some teams run both. It all depends on philosophy. A 4-3 the Pats run might be different from a 4-3 run by the Colts. The Pats employ a 2 gap system, a 3-4 trait Most 4-3 teams are one gap, up the field defenses.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

okay, after reading it again, I can see where you are coming from. In high school, the play probably wouldn't work. The OLB wouldn't be atheletic enough to get to the flat, and the safety playing the deep third would hopefully make the tackle, but it would be a first down.

In the NFl, it would be even worse. QB's are so smart and receivers so good. Draw it up. Put the FS in the middle of the Field. put the ball on the left hash, and put the CB at 1 by 7 off of #1. The SS would probably be 1 by 5 from the TE. If the CB inches in, and the LB creeps out..MAYBE. But otherwise, how does the SS get into the Deep 1/3?

 

[TripleOption]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

I ROFLMAO when you said "Sending your field Corner from a C/3 Shell is ridiculous," because doing so would result in "automatic TD." That was sooooooooooo funny.

Draw it up.

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

I appreciate that TripleOption is a high school coach and knows his stuff, but I'd like to point out that things like "Sky" and "Cloud" are not absolute terms, they are code words and as such confusion can occur. At my school "Sky" was code for a two deep zone, biased towards the sidelines or short side, with both corners and safeties inverted. "Cloud" coverage was a four-deep zone, a prevent defense. Depending on where you're getting your information from the terminology can and will change. You two should probably stick to exactly what you mean instead of quizzing each other what buzzwords represent.

 

[TripleOption]

Triple Option, I don't care if you take exception to the article, or not. If you want to bash Football Outsiders, fine.

Nevertheless, you can blitz any member of the secondary (including a starting CB) out of the cover-3 shell.

You don't get it. You can blitz ANYONE. 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5, 4-2-5 whatever. Send the house. Bring 8,9 people. Thing is, it's NOT SOUND. Whenever you draw up a pressure package, you know whether it's sound or not, and what you are giving up. You know where you are screwed. Teams don't like to bring CB's on blitzes from the field. Maybe a short side CB, usually a Nickel CB on the Slot.

 

[TripleOption]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

I appreciate that TripleOption is a high school coach and knows his stuff, but I'd like to point out that things like "Sky" and "Cloud" are not absolute terms, they are code words and as such confusion can occur. At my school "Sky" was code for a two deep zone, biased towards the sidelines or short side, with both corners and safeties inverted. "Cloud" coverage was a four-deep zone, a prevent defense. Depending on where you're getting your information from the terminology can and will change. You two should probably stick to exactly what you mean instead of quizzing each other what buzzwords represent.

In the articles he was quoting and in general terms, Sky and Cloud have very specific meanings. They are not "code words". You could probably talk to any HS or College coach in the country and tell them you are playing Sky coverage and they will know exactly what you mean.

A C/3 Invert defense is usually a Sky coverage where the SS has the Strong Flat and is the Force run defender. C/2 is a Cloud coverage. The CB has the Flat and will Force the outside run.

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

My two cents on your other argument is that TripleOption is right, you never send a wide corner on a "dog" (strong outside gap) blitz out of a cover three look. If you expect a passing play, usually you want to send people into space instead of vacating it., and there's a lot of space out there between 5 and 15 yards in the cover three.

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

In the articles he was quoting and in general terms, Sky and Cloud have very specific meanings. They are not "code words". You could probably talk to any HS or College coach in the country and tell them you are playing Sky coverage and they will know exactly what you mean.

A C/3 Invert defense is usually a Sky coverage where the SS has the Strong Flat and is the Force run defender. C/2 is a Cloud coverage. The CB has the Flat and will Force the outside run.

Maybe. You've no doubt had more general contact with college coaches than I have, and you might be from an area where the terminology is more standardized, but when I or others were asked to explain schemes from high school to college coaches it had to be done either generally (cover three) or in the particular terminology of the college system (say, "Red" coverage) otherwise misunderstandings frequently would occur.

Same thing happens with passing routes, obviously. "Drags" and "digs" in particular often have different meanings, do they not?

 

[TripleOption]

Re: Explanation of the 3-4 zone blitz

Maybe. You've no doubt had more general contact with college coaches than I have, and you might be from an area where the terminology is more standardized, but when I or others were asked to explain schemes from high school to college coaches it had to be done either generally (cover three) or in the particular terminology of the college system (say, "Red" coverage) otherwise misunderstandings frequently would occur.

Same thing happens with passing routes, obviously. "Drags" and "digs" in particular often have different meanings, do they not?

Red/Blue etc... are more the codes you refer to. Sky and Cloud usually have specific meanings, like Banjo, Lock, Twist, Stem, etc...

Pass routes vary from Offense to offense. In general, I would say a Drag is a shallow cross at 8-10 and a Dig is a 15 yard in.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

You don't get it. You can blitz ANYONE. 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5, 4-2-5 whatever. Send the house. Bring 8,9 people. Thing is, it's NOT SOUND. Whenever you draw up a pressure package, you know whether it's sound or not, and what you are giving up. You know where you are screwed. Teams don't like to bring CB's on blitzes from the field. Maybe a short side CB, usually a Nickel CB on the Slot.

I can't tell you how much joy I have talking to someone who knows this stuff. When you say Teams don't like to bring CBs.... I realize that it doesn't happen often (keyword), but I am saying that it can... I have seen the Steelers blitz the CB on the short side. d@mn what I would do if I could post a draw up of the typical play.

Here goes. It is a 3-4. Hope it turns out.

..........FS.............SS
.......LB......LB....LB....LB
CB......DE.....NT......DE........CB

OK, the CB blitzes from the short side. The LB covers the flat. The FS covers 1/3, the SS covers 1/3, and the other CB covers 1/3.


yes, I agree it is SAFER to blitz the nickel CB, and say have a DE or a LB cover the vacant spot.
Am I right?

 

[TripleOption]

You just drew a Cover 2 Shell. You can certainly send a C/2 Corner, especially from the short side. It's easy. From C/3, with the SS rolled up...that's hard.