Ex Patriots 9-10 performances

[JackBauer]

That is indeed a data point on your side of the ledger. An actual argument at last: thanks. In my judgment the negative factors, largely related to JJSS's physical condition, only secondarily to his chronological age, will swamp the facts you adduce. We shall see who is right going forward. I expect JJSS to contribute little, to play a limited number of snaps and a limited role. The proof is as ever in the pudding. We shall see.

If he can stay healthy, I expect he'll produce. I don't particularly care about being right on this one—I liked Meyers, and I like JJSS. Given how lukewarm this board was on Meyers last season, it seems to me there's a certain amount of retconning going on with the sudden epiphany that JJSS was an obvious mistake and we should have kept Meyers all along. Uh huh.

 

[Thelonious]

In other words you can’t back up a word you say. Thanks for playing, now toddle off and suck your thumb with the other serial malcontents.

What IS that annoying Baa sound?

 

[Thelonious]

If he can stay healthy, I expect he'll produce. I don't particularly care about being right on this one—I liked Meyers, and I like JJSS. Given how lukewarm this board was on Meyers last season, it seems to me there's a certain amount of retconning going on with the sudden epiphany that JJSS was an obvious mistake and we should have kept Meyers all along. Uh huh.

Not on my part. I thought it was a dumb move at the time, for reasons I have given over time. We'll see where it goes. The proof, again, is in the pudding. When JJSS reveals himself to be a bust, I'll not expect a peep. So it goes. I am content.

 

[Ivan]

We were discussing Bill the GM and the SSJJ matter. You are so obsessed with (past) dynasties, and apparently so butthurt that you don't presently have one to root for, that you are unable to think straight or stay on topic. So who's "spouting garbage" here?

You were calling for Belichick to be fired, which calls for a holistic look at the situation, not simply the whining of malcontents like you. And the holistic view considers all of his achievements, not just those of a brand new coach getting tried out for their first few seasons. Unlike those coaches has the most proven track record of any coach in NFL history, and he deserves to be accorded the respect that goes along with that, regardless of whatever the what have you done for me lately crowd is crying about at any particular time. And like any other organization that has had a Dynasty run the Patriots are trying to rebuild to contender status from that Dynasty run. I asked you to show us the track records of the prior Dynasties to support your claim that Belichick should be fired, but you ran away from that, crying about how unfair it is to expect facts to support your argument. Belichick’s leash in this regard may not be eternal, but it certainly deserves to be longer than most really successful coaches because he was more successful than any of them. You can hate that all you want, but like the rest of your crybaby clan you can’t make an argument against it because there isn’t one you can make. Too bad for you.

 

[Ivan]

What IS that annoying Baa sound?

It’s probably Triumph getting out of your bed.

 

[Thelonious]

You were calling for Belichick to be fired, which calls for a holistic look at the situation, not simply the whining of malcontents like you. And the holistic view considers all of his achievements, not just those of a brand new coach getting tried out for their first few seasons. Unlike those coaches has the most proven track record of any coach in NFL history, and he deserves to be accorded the respect that goes along with that, regardless of whatever the what have you done for me lately crowd is crying about at any particular time. And like any other organization that has had a Dynasty run the Patriots are trying to rebuild to contender status from that Dynasty run. I asked you to show us the track records of the prior Dynasties to support your claim that Belichick should be fired, but you ran away from that, crying about how unfair it is to expect facts to support your argument. Belichick’s leash in this regard may not be eternal, but it certainly deserves to be longer than most really successful coaches because he was more successful than any of them. You can hate that all you want, but like the rest of your crybaby clan you can’t make an argument against it because there isn’t one you can make. Too bad for you.

I'm done with you. Until you give over with this "You said to fire Bill" nonsense, there's no chance of an adult discussion. I have corrected this error on your part at least twice. Until you are willing, if you ever are, to engage in honest discussion, to respond to what I have actually said, there really is no point. It requires discipline, above all things, to hold a worthwhile discussion. You have none. I taught philosophy to young people for 25 years: I know sloppy thinking when I see it. I can also tell a dead horse from an imaginary lion.

 

[203Pat]

but... but... but... Meyers! I love Meyers! Surely BB the GM must be vilified for not hanging on to my favorite endzone averse wideout!

I don't know 9 for 81 and two TD's on Sunday works for me.

 

[203Pat]

Rebuilding from a 20 year dynasty run is a huge task, which doesn’t happen overnight, and most franchises don’t recover from it for years and years. The Cowboys have won 1 playoff game since their dynasty end. Green Bay has won 2 Super Bowls since the 60’s. The Steelers have won 2 Super Bowls since the 70’s, and the 49ers haven’t won one since 1994, almost 30 years ago. There is a price franchises pay for long runs of great success, and none was longer than Belichick’s Patriots Dynasty, and he did it in the free agency/salary cap era, a feat no other franchise has accomplished. Belichick has.rebuilt their defense into one of the best in football, but still has some serious work to do to get the offense to the same level. And to get to Lombardi level you almost always need a top QB, which is the most difficult piece to find, and even when you do you may not win it all, as Josh Allen and Joe Burrows have been finding out the hard way. So you and your crybaby buddies can cry all you want about Belichick, but 6 Lombardi’s, and 9 AFC Championships in 23 years has earned him the right to be the architect of their next contender. No coach/ GM. has ever accomplished more, and all of you fairweather fantasy fans can gfy if you don’t like that.

We are 4 years into our rebuild and half the board still acts like we're the "little engine that could". Just stacking up moral victories and "what if's". At some point we need to take the next step so living in the past and resting on "6 Lombardi's and 9 AFCC's" is just going to make us the Cowboys. I want to see actual progress and not just live in the past.

 

[Steve102]

And had they kept him the same people would be screaming about how they gave a jag WR who can’t score tens of millions for nothing.

Facts. Everyone on this board was screaming they needed to get better. So they got a guy with better YAC, replacing a decent guy who couldn't find the endzone with a map and the most up to date navigation software. Now we got people screaming "oh wait not that guy! I like that guy!"

EDIT: who's stupid headass play literally resulted in a loss. Resign that guy. Riiiight.

What are you, Ivan's valet?

Meyers at least had a TD last year, better than Diontae Johnson of the Steelers

 

[Thelonious]

Facts. Everyone on this board was screaming they needed to get better. So they got a guy with better YAC, replacing a decent guy who couldn't find the endzone with a map and the most up to date navigation software. Now we got people screaming "oh wait not that guy! I like that guy!"

EDIT: who's stupid headass play literally resulted in a loss. Resign that guy. Riiiight.

LOL. I thought the valet thing was sorta clever. Oh well, no one's perfect, except of course for Bill Belichick.

 

[203Pat]

Facts. Everyone on this board was screaming they needed to get better. So they got a guy with better YAC, replacing a decent guy who couldn't find the endzone with a map and the most up to date navigation software. Now we got people screaming "oh wait not that guy! I like that guy!"

EDIT: who's stupid headass play literally resulted in a loss. Resign that guy. Riiiight.

Meyers will finish with more yards and TD's than Juju will this season.

 

[Steve102]

LOL. I thought the valet thing was sorta clever. Oh well, no one's perfect, except of course for Bill Belichick.

Stop it. No one is suggesting that. Jesus. Go root for the Jets, then you have something to ***** about.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Meyers will finish with more yards and TD's than Juju will this season.

That's a possibility, but I think it's too early to make that call. People were sure the oline was going to get clobbered in game 1 and they didn't. Sometimes things don't turn out like we think.

 

[State]

Some of us thought that [Wynn’s] best NFL position was at LG anyway.

I remember. I also recall DaBruinz castigating you for this.

Wynn is not a warrior. But he was a first-round talent vetted by Dante.

And we effectively just let him go. And look at the gymnastics we’ve had to do since.

If Billy Yates had more Dante in him last year, he would have insisted on Wynn as LT and Brown at RT. Yates seems as though he were the de facto OL coach last year while Patricia was busy scrambling with his on-the-job training as OC.

 

[Ivan]

LOL. I thought the valet thing was sorta clever. Oh well, no one's perfect, except of course for Bill Belichick.

Except you can’t seem to show your posts calling on Belichick to resign Meyers fo over 10 million a season? Should be easy to do given your insistence now?

 

[Ivan]

I remember. I also recall DaBruinz castigating you for this.

Wynn is not a warrior. But he was a first-round talent vetted by Dante.

And we effectively just let him go. And look at the gymnastics we’ve had to do since.

If Billy Yates had more Dante in him last year, he would have insisted on Wynn as LT and Brown at RT. Yates seems as though he were the de facto OL coach last year while Patricia was busy scrambling with his on-the-job training as OC.

Unbelievable. You guys have been screaming about how bad Wynn is, and what a bust he was for years, and now Belichick was wrong to let him go? Even though Wynn said he didn’t want to play here anymore, probably because they were so hard on him, and that he wouldn’t even listen to any offer less than 10 a season. There is literally no move Belichick can make that won’t be ripped by those who want him fired. First the clamor for him to get rid of Wynn, and then screaming bloody murder when he does it. Unbelievable.

 

[State]

You guys have been screaming about how bad Wynn is, and what a bust he was for years, and now Belichick was wrong to let him go?

Hey. Maybe you’re right to be miffed. But we’ll see Wynn play Sunday night. It’ll be interesting.

I complained about Wynn’s play last year at RT. He’s no warrior. In Green Bay he seemed to say “Screw this.”

 

[Ivan]

We are 4 years into our rebuild and half the board still acts like we're the "little engine that could". Just stacking up moral victories and "what if's". At some point we need to take the next step so living in the past and resting on "6 Lombardi's and 9 AFCC's" is just going to make us the Cowboys. I want to see actual progress and not just live in the past.

Putting Belichick’s achievements into context when some are clamoring for him to be fired is being realistic, not living in the past. And that means that the records of past dynasties after their run ended is completely relevant, especially since they had multiple Dynasties within one long run, and they did it it in the modern era of the NFL, which no other franchise has done. From what I can see he has rebuilt their defense to a Championship caliber level, which is a huge part of the equation. The run game should be strong again this season, even though it had a bad day against the best run defense in football. Which leaves us with the passing game, and pretty much every team in football has to find a really good QB to win a Super Bowl. So that’s where they stand, and if Jones can turn into a top 10 QB this season the Patriots should be a serious play-off team, despite having the toughest schedule in football. The bottom line here is that Patriot fans have been spoiled beyond belief by the incredible success of the past 20 + years, and now only a Lombardi is sufficient to soothe their anxieties. That’s unrealistic, and most teams that get to the level of a long term contender have to go through a similar time frame for building that team up as the Patriots are currently going through.

 

[Ivan]

Hey. Maybe you’re right to be miffed. But we’ll see Wynn play Sunday night. It’ll be interesting.

I complained about Wynn’s play last year at RT. He’s no warrior. In Green Bay he seemed to say “Screw this.”

I really liked the Wynn pick, but hated the Michel pick, but unfortunately he never lived up to the promise that made him that pick. And while Michel’s career petered out quickly, he did lay a big role in getting them the final Lombardi of their Dynasty run. The surprising thing is that OL has been a unit where they have drafted exceptionally well, and the misses have been few.

 

[203Pat]

Putting Belichick’s achievements into context when some are clamoring for him to be fired is being realistic, not living in the past. And that means that the records of past dynasties after their run ended is completely relevant, especially since they had multiple Dynasties within one long run, and they did it it in the modern era of the NFL, which no other franchise has done. From what I can see he has rebuilt their defense to a Championship caliber level, which is a huge part of the equation. The run game should be strong again this season, even though it had a bad day against the best run defense in football. Which leaves us with the passing game, and pretty much every team in football has to find a really good QB to win a Super Bowl. So that’s where they stand, and if Jones can turn into a top 10 QB this season the Patriots should be a serious play-off team, despite having the toughest schedule in football. The bottom line here is that Patriot fans have been spoiled beyond belief by the incredible success of the past 20 + years, and now only a Lombardi is sufficient to soothe their anxieties. That’s unrealistic, and most teams that get to the level of a long term contender have to go through a similar time frame for building that team up as the Patriots are currently going through.

Yes I get we're spoiled and all the usual excuses for wanting more out of this team but this is a business and it is a "What have you done for me lately?" business. Bill has been given plenty of runway in the post Brady-era and so far we have a half in, half out approach to "rebuilding" with zero playoff wins in one appearance entering the 4th year. As far as I am concerned Bill should have been fired in January for that ridiculous experiment with Patricia. That was flat out negligence on Bill's part. To not have someone being groomed for OC when Josh was interviewing every single year is bad. Not finding someone outside the organization is bad. But making a former DC your OC and play caller is just lunacy and 31 other coaches would have been fired for it so he is getting plenty of leeway based on his past achievements.

I don’t think people are demanding we reload for another 6 Lombardi's or even a Super Bowl win by now. People, or at least I am, asking for a clear direction and a new approach to roster building with a young QB and a team that is capable of winning a playoff game in year 4. Even if you remove the Patricia experiment specifics from the equation and just chalk that year up as a bad OC Bill is still 25-26 in his last 3 seasons and one game. That would get most coaches fired as well but once again because he is Bill he is still here so he is still getting credit for what he has done. At some point Bill needs to pay off on that credit or he will run out. I'm sorry but it isn't unrealistic to hope for a playoff win in year 4 of a "rebuild".