Everyone in the AFC East except for one team has appeared to upgrade

[tanked_as_usual]

Its not the same 'arrogance' at all.

I have guys like you grouped into slightly differing categories.

1. The guy who uses his football team of choice as an extension of his ego. This guy loves to follow a winner, it allows him to have a weapon to fight the arguments he's so used to losing.
Woe betide the team that lets this guy down for a year or two: he'll react angrily to having his favorite weapon taken away from him.

2. The childish contrarian. He likes to make snippy little comments, take a deliberately negative viewpoint - its gets him the attention he craves. Most football fans naturally gravitate towards homerism - not this guy!

He's a 'realist' and he'll tell you dumb homers exactly where its at!

3. The troll from another fanbase.

I'd much rather believe that all the guys with the stupidly negative attitude where simply trolls from other fanbases - but I don't think thats the case.

For what its worth, you are a type 2 - I fully expect some low level sarcasm as a retort - maybe a 'thanks professor' or some such.

not at all....why would I thank you for being wrong?

people like you who believe they know more than others and that you have others figured out are in a class all by yourselves......you design quotes simply to put yourself ahead of someone else......just because you said it, it must be so.....

so which one are you? #1? so it can be expected that you will disappear when the pats have a losing record?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Sitting in front of Madden 2011 with your pants around your ankles isn't 'research'.

so what do posts like this make you?

#4) a **** just for the sake of it?

 

[Deus Irae]

Of which exaggerated type do you think we suffer the most with?

It depends on how the team is doing and how you're defining 'suffer'. The Chicken Littles are isolated in good times. Even others who might have points of agreement with them get put off by over-the-top negativity during positive times. With homers during times of struggle, though, the person berating every little straying from the reservation gets comforted by those who cling to some memory of the good times, so it becomes a pack mentality. I personally find the pack mentality to be far more annoying than a lone clown, because one person is easier to ignore than many.

I can guarantee you thats its the 'negative view you don't respect' that plays the role of provocateur around here - those are the guys starting endless inane threads.

I absolutely agree that you'll find more threads pissing and moaning than you will singing praises. That'll happen when a team is going great, and it will happen when a team is struggling, even if 'struggling' is the sort that the Patriots did last year. It's the nature of human psychology. On the other hand, you've got threads praising the team for signing players that should never have gotten to free agency in the first place. There's plenty of inanity to go around, especially in the offseason.

People want to come here and talk about football in a reasonable way, not be faced with a bunch of rabid idiots who think our F.O. doesn;t know how to build a winning franchise or maybe doesn't even want to build winning franchise.

Your interpretation of 'reasonable' will differ from that of others. Just as an example using your own actions, you found it reasonable to attack another poster an insult about Madden in this thread, even as you are criticizing the posting of others. Some will think that was fine, and others will disagree. Right or wrong in such cases is up to the board owner and mods.

This forum is a good source for breaking Patriots news, but the general tone is of one i'd expect from a Lions message board.

This forum is pretty tame compared to many others that are out there.

 

[Wheelssps]

This forum is pretty tame compared to many others that are out there.

That's painfully true. I used to be on the ESPN boards, and that was just terrible. This offseason has been the worst in terms of the spirit of this board, but it's not even close to the ESPN boards. I at least I feel that I can read reasonably written discussions here, with some insight from some fabulously knowledgeable posters thrown in. The ESPN boards are just a bucket of suck.

 

[livinginthe past]

That's painfully true. I used to be on the ESPN boards, and that was just terrible. This offseason has been the worst in terms of the spirit of this board, but it's not even close to the ESPN boards. I at least I feel that I can read reasonably written discussions here, with some insight from some fabulously knowledgeable posters thrown in. The ESPN boards are just a bucket of suck.

ESPaM board shouldn't even enter the discussion.

The only exposure i've had your to ESPN posters is the comments section under the articles I sometimes read.

Its painful.

 

[Sicilian]

ESPaM board shouldn't even enter the discussion.

The only exposure i've had your to ESPN posters is the comments section under the articles I sometimes read.

Its painful.

WEEI.com comments are the same way, so even amongst other local forums posts are far worse than most you see here.

 

[livinginthe past]

It depends on how the team is doing and how you're defining 'suffer'. The Chicken Littles are isolated in good times. Even others who might have points of agreement with them get put off by over-the-top negativity during positive times. With homers during times of struggle, though, the person berating every little straying from the reservation gets comforted by those who cling to some memory of the good times, so it becomes a pack mentality. I personally find the pack mentality to be far more annoying than a lone clown, because one person is easier to ignore than many.

You don't think it logical that we should have more posters who are 'kool-aid' drinkers than people determined to paint everything in the darkest possible shade.

We support the team of the decade.

Are they perfect?

Of course not.

But a bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss - to me a combination of ignorance (not even bothering to look at both sides of the story) and an obsession with flooding the board with every tiny misgiving that enters people's mind is incredibly annoying.

Take the Peppers/Boldin scenario's - personally i'd love to have seen either guy on board - anyone who doesn't think Boldin could greatly help this WR corps isn't thinking straight.

I use the 'Madden' dig because the people who bemoan our inability to land Peppers or Boldin think its as simple as simply 'going out and getting them' - just like you can on Madden.

The refusal to believe that there are factors and knowledge that the Patriots FO may be privy to doesn't even enter the discussion.

Nope, the attitude is: I want Peppers on the team and the F.O. has let me down because he's not a Patriot.

I absolutely agree that you'll find more threads pissing and moaning than you will singing praises. That'll happen when a team is going great, and it will happen when a team is struggling, even if 'struggling' is the sort that the Patriots did last year. It's the nature of human psychology. On the other hand, you've got threads praising the team for signing players that should never have gotten to free agency in the first place. There's plenty of inanity to go around, especially in the offseason.

The Patriots aren't struggling though are they?

People see everything through a Patriots only prism - they want Tom Brady to light defenses up for 300 yards every week, yet its the end of the world if other teams do it to us.

All they want to see is the stuff that is wrong with our team, and compare it everything that is right with others.

The Ravens and Jets are excellent running teams - but they don't scare anyone throwing the ball.

Yet, people here want us to pass like the Patriots of 2007 and run the ball like the 2009 Jets.

Its not going to happen.

For what its worth, i'd advocate way less shotgun and get the O-line attacking rather than defending all the time.

Our offensive playcalling last year was poor.

Your interpretation of 'reasonable' will differ from that of others. Just as an example using your own actions, you found it reasonable to attack another poster an insult about Madden in this thread, even as you are criticizing the posting of others. Some will think that was fine, and others will disagree. Right or wrong in such cases is up to the board owner and mods.

I am able to criticise the team for what I perceieve to be their weaknesses: lack of commitment to the running game, arrogant over simple reliance of Brady in the shotgun.

The people i criticise on here never show their positive, they simply log on to tell us how the F.O have let us all down.

How the Jets and Dolphins..and even the friggin' Bills have bcome better than us in the first couple of weeks of FA.

What I rail against is their sinlge minded determination to see the negative at every turn - there is no balance.

This forum is pretty tame compared to many others that are out there.

I sincerely hope thats not true.

I post over at CHFF - we have a nice mix of fans from a number of teams there - yes there is rivalry and baiting.

But rarely is it the inane self-flagellation we get here.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Someone tell me why threads that are alleged to be poorly written and thought out by an 'idiot' in here reach 200 posts and 6 pages but a well thought out post and one that has good points and facts is 1 or 2 pages long and gone off the front page within 2 days?.

 

[Sicilian]

Someone tell me why threads that are alleged to be poorly written and thought out by an 'idiot' in here reach 200 posts and 6 pages but a well thought out post and one that has good points and facts is 1 or 2 pages long and gone off the front page within 2 days?.

The same reason a story about BB's cold handshake snuffs get multiple discussion spots on Sportscenter, but his charitable work goes largely unregarded by the national media. On the whole, Americans are just more fascinated by drama and character flaws than they are by feel good stories.

 

[Deus Irae]

You don't think it logical that we should have more posters who are 'kool-aid' drinkers than people determined to paint everything in the darkest possible shade.

We support the team of the decade.

Are they perfect?

Of course not.

But a bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss - to me a combination of ignorance (not even bothering to look at both sides of the story) and an obsession with flooding the board with every tiny misgiving that enters people's mind is incredibly annoying.

1.) You're claiming there's ignorance when you talk about coming to this board for its great information. It's not likely to be ignorance, then, is it? It may be stupidity, it may be a lack of understanding, and it may just be a disagreement, but it's not generally ignorance.

2.) As for perspective, this is an offseason after a very disappointing year. The season ended with a brutal loss, at home, to a Ravens team that had a QB who was too hurt to throw the football. I'd argue that it's the homers who've generally failed to use a realistic perspective, just as I'd argue that it was the homers who generally failed to use a realistic perspective for much of last year.

3.) "Team of the decade" is irrelevant. The reality is that Pittsburgh has won 2 titles since the Patriots last won a Super Bowl. As I noted after the Seymour trade when I was voicing my opinion on how bad that move was... things would be different if the team had won the Super Bowl in 2007.

Take the Peppers/Boldin scenario's - personally i'd love to have seen either guy on board - anyone who doesn't think Boldin could greatly help this WR corps isn't thinking straight.

And, yet, it was the homers blasting those who were pissed that the Patriots didn't get Boldin. Based upon the reports (which may, or may not, have been true), the Patriots were the front runners in the deal and then pulled out, with some reporting that it was over Boldin's contract. Now, how the hell can anyone justify that? Boldin's made it abundantly clear that he wants a big contract, yet people were arguing that it made sense for the Patriots to have expected Boldin to play on a "prove it" deal. When the homers are that insane, why would you not expect the board to end up somewhat fractured in general?

I use the 'Madden' dig because the people who bemoan our inability to land Peppers or Boldin think its as simple as simply 'going out and getting them' - just like you can on Madden.

Personally, I don't care about the dig one way or the other. It was hypocritical in context of your complaint, though, which was my point.

The refusal to believe that there are factors and knowledge that the Patriots FO may be privy to doesn't even enter the discussion.

Nope, the attitude is: I want Peppers on the team and the F.O. has let me down because he's not a Patriot.

There are built in realities in posting, writing, talking, etc... when it comes to talking/debate/analysis. One is that we may not know all the facts. Another is that when someone gives and opinion, there's an unsaid "in my opinion". If I say "Julius Peppers is too big a risk", the unstated understanding is that I'm giving my opinion, unless I put "It's a fact" somewhere in the sentence. As for the front office, what it might know, or not know, is irrelevant if they aren't informing those who are opining on the subject.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Someone tell me why threads that are alleged to be poorly written and thought out by an 'idiot' in here reach 200 posts and 6 pages but a well thought out post and one that has good points and facts is 1 or 2 pages long and gone off the front page within 2 days?.

When you all agree on something, the discussion dies off sooner. Post count on a thread != thread merit.

 

[DW Toys]

1.) You're claiming there's ignorance when you talk about coming to this board for its great information. It's not likely to be ignorance, then, is it? It may be stupidity, it may be a lack of understanding, and it may just be a disagreement, but it's not generally ignorance.

2.) As for perspective, this is an offseason after a very disappointing year. The season ended with a brutal loss, at home, to a Ravens team that had a QB who was too hurt to throw the football. I'd argue that it's the homers who've generally failed to use a realistic perspective, just as I'd argue that it was the homers who generally failed to use a realistic perspective for much of last year.

3.) "Team of the decade" is irrelevant. The reality is that Pittsburgh has won 2 titles since the Patriots last won a Super Bowl. As I noted after the Seymour trade when I was voicing my opinion on how bad that move was... things would be different if the team had won the Super Bowl in 2007.



And, yet, it was the homers blasting those who were pissed that the Patriots didn't get Boldin. Based upon the reports (which may, or may not, have been true), the Patriots were the front runners in the deal and then pulled out, with some reporting that it was over Boldin's contract. Now, how the hell can anyone justify that? Boldin's made it abundantly clear that he wants a big contract, yet people were arguing that it made sense for the Patriots to have expected Boldin to play on a "prove it" deal. When the homers are that insane, why would you not expect the board to end up somewhat fractured in general?



Personally, I don't care about the dig one way or the other. It was hypocritical in context of your complaint, though, which was my point.



There are built in realities in posting, writing, talking, etc... when it comes to talking/debate/analysis. One is that we may not know all the facts. Another is that when someone gives and opinion, there's an unsaid "in my opinion". If I say "Julius Peppers is too big a risk", the unstated understanding is that I'm giving my opinion, unless I put "It's a fact" somewhere in the sentence. As for the front office, what it might know, or not know, is irrelevant if they aren't informing those who are opining on the subject.

We don't always agree but that was very well thought out. Good post.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

I may agree with your overall sentiment, but childish name-calling makes it very hard to side with you. It's pretty much the same reason I dislike most of (not all) the negative posters on this board. It's not what they're saying, it's the attitude and arrogance with which they spew it.

Good post. If I am posting with arrogance and attitude please nail me good, but that was not my intention if you read the headline of the post. I was drug into a urinating contest and I do not want to be negative.So I won't react anymore to these posters. They are entitled to trash anybody and everybody because that is what makes them feel better about themselves..

APOLOGY: DW Toys wants to apologize to all out there if you feel I am being or have been negative or arrogant in this forum. Arrogant is not my specialty but as far as negative I will not necessarily take the company line if IN MY OPINION I have some ideas that I feel could work to improve the Team for which we are all interested and on this forum. If it sounds arrogant it was not my intention.

I also want to apologize if I have caused the haters and crowd followers to react in such of a negative way about and on my OPINIONS, that they flood this site with venom and worthless reactions that deviate the main topics of discussion as they were written. Some of you have been dragged (ironically even some who don't like what I write) into that foray and if you have sided or even given the smallest credence with my opinions, I am sorry.

It's almost like a eternal, never-ending "got-ya-last" contest.

I do not have all the answers nor claim to know them all as some do, but I try real hard to take different approaches and perhaps one or two ideas will peak some other posters interest. If it is not your cup of tea, if I want to be insulted, I can go talk to my wife.

One poster has so eloquently put it, way too many posts and pages were used on this thread for no real purpose. I did not write this thread question to start a civil war.
DW Toys

 

[Sicilian]

Good post. If I am posting with arrogance and attitude please nail me good

For reference, I didn't find your original post all that inflamatory.

 

[DW Toys]

For reference, I didn't find your original post all that inflamatory.

THX
DW Toys

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

ZING.....LOL at the tough, smart guy

do you really believe that the pats were going anywhere last year even with welker? last time I checked, he would not have been in position to stip ray rice on the ravens first play from scrimmage, either.......a WR was not going to make up for the playoff disaster last year....deal with it

you should go wash your mouth out with soap or something

Uhhhhhh hey, Nostradamus

How exactly do you know what would have happened with Welker?

Classic case. A clown who thinks he KNOWS what would have happened even through it never happened.

Also, Einstein, one play and seven points isn't 60 minutes.

 

[condon84]

APOLOGY: DW Toys wants to apologize to all out there if you feel I am being or have been negative or arrogant in this forum. Arrogant is not my specialty but as far as negative I will not necessarily take the company line if IN MY OPINION I have some ideas that I feel could work to improve the Team for which we are all interested and on this forum. If it sounds arrogant it was not my intention.

Apology? Dude, it's not that serious. Especially the fact that you're just voicing your opinion. You didn't call anyone names or be a rude douchebag. Just because you have a different opinion than others and they don't agree with you, doesn't mean you have to apologize.

Take it back......quick

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Uhhhhhh hey, Nostradamus

How exactly do you know what would have happened with Welker?

Classic case. A clown who thinks he KNOWS what would have happened even through it never happened.

Also, Einstein, one play and seven points isn't 60 minutes.

I hate to dive into this argument, but felt I had to say that if for ONE minute you think that the addition of Wes Welker in the Baltimore game would have made a difference in a win instead of a loss or more importantly a 33-14 blowout,you are simply an idiot.

Hope this is not what you meant,if it was I don't see how you could say another person is a clown.

Welker is a good player...but he's not Jesus

 

[livinginthe past]

I hate to dive into this argument, but felt I had to say that if for ONE minute you think that the addition of Wes Welker in the Baltimore game would have made a difference in a win instead of a loss or more importantly a 33-14 blowout,you are simply an idiot.

Hope this is not what you meant,if it was I don't see how you could say another person is a clown.

Welker is a good player...but he's not Jesus

Its all conjecture, but I feel the tone of the game was set very early on.

The big run up the middle, sure Welker couldn't have impact on that - but you have to figure that the strip sack that followed on the first offensive series the Patriots could have been altered by Welkers presence.

There is nobody better at getting open on short/intermediate routes - would Brady have been stood quite so long waiting for something to develop if WWW was on the field?

I can't prove it, of course, but I doubt it.

The effect of a missing Wes welker was felt throughout the whole game - rightly or wrongly the offense had become more and more reliant on him getting open.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I hate to dive into this argument, but felt I had to say that if for ONE minute you think that the addition of Wes Welker in the Baltimore game would have made a difference in a win instead of a loss or more importantly a 33-14 blowout,you are simply an idiot.

Hope this is not what you meant,if it was I don't see how you could say another person is a clown.

Welker is a good player...but he's not Jesus

... we really can't know one way or the other. If Welker's on the field and gets open, maybe Brady doesn't hold onto the ball long enough to get strip-sacked on the Pats' first possession. That doesn't happen, and we're looking at potentially turning the game right there. Is it a leap to assume that that would happen? Yes. But it's no worse than assuming that it couldn't.

That game got out of hand because the Ravens got a big early lead and were able to run the ball down our throats for the rest of the game because of it. If Welker keeps them from jumping ahead by such a large margin that early, then the whole game likely unfolds differently.