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Draft Gurus: Bottom-line, is there a Mayo-Esque Starting OLB in this draft?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by JSn, Mar 6, 2009.

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  1. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    You guys post with a fury I can't even try to follow.

    Any opinions? Who's an OLB that can very likely contribute immediately? Is the position tougher than ILB in that regard, or is there such a guy?
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  2. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Sintim.

    Next question?
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not a "draft guru". With that in mind, I'm not sure there is one.

    Everett Brown, Brian Orapko, Aaron Maybin, Michael Johnson, Connor Barwin and Larry English would all be DE/OLB conversions. You may be able to expect some immediate situational pash rushing benefit, but it would be unrealistic to expect a "Mayo-esque" starting 3-4 OLB (comparable to Adalius Thomas, or Vrabel of 2007) right away.

    Clint Sintim is likely the most ready, but I don't see him being in Mayo's league. Clay Matthews may have more upside and may be somewhat ready, but he's on the small size and may need a year to bulk up, a la Shawn Crable.

    Don't see it.
  4. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Depends on what you mean by "contribute"? There are probably quite a few that could be rush specialists for the Pats. A smaller number that could play downs in the base defense (but would come off the field in the nickel).

    I took your thread subject to hint at a player that doesn't come off the field in most situations (like Mayo). I don't see a player like that available at #23. Curry is probably the closest thing, but I would project him more inside for the Pats.

    I think you need to look to the sophomores (Crable/Redd) instead of anyone picked up in the draft.
  5. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    That's kind of where I've been at. I think Guyton will show up at ILB a lot (if not starting) and our own undervalued (rightly, as fans) Crable will likely turn up.

    I don't see much College ball at all, and it's tricky seeing how these 4-3 end conversion projects work, unless it's a strictly Pass Rushing OLB.

    Were Vrabel and Thomas DE's in college?
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ayup. So was Bruschi and TBC, and Wood, Crable, Redd, and Craig are hybrids.
  7. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    Good question, right of the bat I would say Sintim but after I though about it Larry English is the guy who was not on my radar at all a month ago who is flying up the draft charts lately. It is such a tough position to judge that is why BB is making that decision as he did great with Mayo last year.
  8. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    OK, so forgive my ignorance, but is the college game strictly a 4-3 kind of deal?
    That seems like a lot of guys that are converts. I guess it also make a case that Julius Peppers "could" make the jump as well. Probably not here, but somewhere.
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are some 3-4s in college, few and far between and they tend to use smaller kids because that's who they can get. Others switch into a 3-4 in some situations, but play a base 4-3. And the hybrid kids above all played some LB and switched back and forth between DE based on team needs. It's like Barwin playing one year of DE, he was a TE they converted because his Special Teams play showed he had the ability and they had lost two starting DEs and needed the help.
  10. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    Speaking of ILB's and OLB's. I have a question. Would Mayo be able to play OLB for us? He surely has the speed to do so. Vrabel and AD moved from one to the other as need dictated. Would Mayo be able to at some point? Or am I missing something obvious and asking a stoopid question?
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He probably could, though he's a bit on the small side. But we need him too much at WILB, where he's a perfect fit and the future captain of the defense.
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He could, but the problem of having shorter LBs on the edge in NE's defense is they are trying to see around TE/OTs that are so much larger. Playing off the LOS lets them see the play developing behind the O-line and anticipate the play, whereas a 6'6" Crable can see over the TE/OT and read the play for himself.
  13. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    Thx MayoClinic, 2 thoughts. Small as in short? or height and weight both?
    I was somewhat amazed that he was a starter from day 1 as I was used to all the talk here of how complicated our LB system is. Amazed and pleased I should say. It will be fun to see how he progresses from last season.

    Thx, BoR also..... missed your post will writing this one......Makes sense... It's height that's the key
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  14. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Vrabel is around 265 and thomas 270 lb compared to mayo at 240. you cannot ask him to engage tackles at 300-330 lb every down.

    what ever olb we get it is going to take time to develop so i do not see one at 23 as if you could a CB or DE[with all the money their if we can a stud for 5 yrs we can clear cap and get rid of 1 big $$$ contract] who can contribute . the best value is to pick them in the 2nd as they will be atheletic enough and can take time to develop playing in limited role.
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeh, but we can get a 5th year on contract in the late first. :D
  16. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Starting from Day 1? Highly doubtful!

    However at #23 it is not out of the question to get a guy that could be groomed for PT duty in the base defense by game 6 or so and then finish the 2nd half of the year as the first and second down LBer. (giving way to a pass rushing vet like Taylor on 3rd down.)
  17. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    Following this thought further: who do you like in this role/pick?

    In other words, whose your binkys here at #23 if they did look to OLB
  18. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    Wannabe Guru here :cool:

    I've made it clear I like Larry English and here's why...

    2005
    78 tackles, 7 TFL and 1 sack
    2006
    51 tackles, 16 TFL, 12 sacks and a 1st Team All-MAC selection
    2007
    67 tackles, 17 TFL, 10.5 sacks, an MVP trophy and another 1st Team All-MAC selection
    2008
    37 tackles, 14.5 TFL, 8 sacks and MAC MVP

    His stock only went up from competing with the best at the Senoir Bowl. He caught my eye when I saw him manhandle the LT and still manage to take down the RB. Almost all the prospects at this position are conversion guys, so there will be a learning curve, but as others have mentioned he has the potential to play inside as well.
  19. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    Hard to pass up these stats and production. I have been in the English camp for a while myself. I also like Matthews here because of the BB connection to his dad. But production is a priority #23. coming in third on my list is Sintin, although #23 seems to steep a price for him.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You do know Barwin's first year on defense he matched English's sophomore season? And he plays Special Teams and he's a good TE and he's more athletic... I like the longer production timeline on defense, but all things being equal, you lad is a damned fine 4-3 DE who still has to face the same transition challenges with fewer tools.
  21. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    Barwin at #23? I'm fine with that so long as we have a starter in place before the draft. Jason Taylor would be the logical fit if we took Barwin at 23. If we were to sign Peppers that changes things considerably....
  22. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    Peppers is gonna cost you a 1st and probably a 2nd. Not to mention your chances of resigning Wilfork or Seymour.
  23. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Dude, that line is SO last week.

    Cassel set the market on trades. If Carolina wants him gone, they'll get a second or a low first, tops.
  24. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    I have my doubts about this. We shall see soon enough though.
  25. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    Dude you were wrong about Cassel and you're wrong about Peppers. Carolina doesn't want him gone and so unless someone blows them away with an offer he isn't going any where.
  26. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Sintim and English are both good prospects. But I think it's unrealistic to think they are Mayo type prospects who will step in right away. with that in mind, I'd go with Barwin who has the highest upside. It will probably take some time for him to learn the position but he could contribute on passing downs, on special teams, and as a tight end until he is ready.

    Meanwhile I think Woods (who was tendered 2M!!) is the default starter opposite Thomas. I really would have preferred to get a vet player like a Peppers/Suggs/Dansby but right now I think the odds are low since they ALL got franchised. Grrrr.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  27. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    For what it's worth Larry did play ILB and was a basketball standout in high school.
  28. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yup, it should help him, but I do have to note I'm hoping for LBs taller then 6'2" to take on Pro-OTs. I like Larry, if BB wanted to move him inside and work him at SILB I'd be cool, but I'd still rather have Sintim there.
  29. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    Totally agree with this and like you I am not sold on Woods and was hard on the Suggs bandwaggon.

    The difficulty of this question is many of the best OLB are going to be projects as we have a lot of good conversion guys (Orakpo, English, Maybin, Barwin and Johnson to some extent) Mayo was a LB through and through and that is why he was able to make the jump right away to the NFL as WILB for us. All of the players I mention will have a learning curve to pick up OLB with Barwin I think having the highest ceiling.
  30. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    Anyone envision a scenario where BB packages a couple of picks to move up in the first round? To around say 12-18 for a player he really covets? Maybin? Orakpo? Brown? Maybe someone slips into middle of the round.... Raji will be long gone before #10.... Pity
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
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