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Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

I still hate the colts......:rolleyes:
 
Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

It goes much farther than this season. The past few years it has been like this. The team is soft on both sides of the ball. Lots of errors now compared to the other team in big games which was not as much the case before.
Yeah, we used to be outgained and outprettied but we'd win because the other team would make a mistake and we would make the big play when needed. Now we make the big mistake (Gaffney at Indy) or the big blown coverage (3rd and 15 in OT vs. the Jets). More solid football and we win those games. The only mitigating factor is we are ridiculously young in the back 8 so this could (that's could, not will) be a temporary thing.
 
I hope that we have become the 01-04 Colts. That would mean that in at least two years, we're due for a Super Bowl win. :D
 
Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

Yeah, we used to be outgained and outprettied but we'd win because the other team would make a mistake and we would make the big play when needed. Now we make the big mistake (Gaffney at Indy) or the big blown coverage (3rd and 15 in OT vs. the Jets). More solid football and we win those games. The only mitigating factor is we are ridiculously young in the back 8 so this could (that's could, not will) be a temporary thing.

The team used to be full of grizzled veterans in their prime, with only a very rare appearance by a rookie. Now, the defense is full of rookies and second year players. Not surprisingly, we're seeing a lot more mistakes made on the field.
 
the colts will never be the new england patriots.........a series of planets lined up for the colts to be what they are.......put manning, wayne, and moore on the lions, and the lions would be a playoff team
 
Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

The team used to be full of grizzled veterans in their prime, with only a very rare appearance by a rookie. Now, the defense is full of rookies and second year players. Not surprisingly, we're seeing a lot more mistakes made on the field.

Offensively we are making tons of mistakes now, which we didn't used to do even though we had Jermaine Wiggins, JR Redmond, 7th rd pick David Givens, castoff David Patten, etc etc.
 
Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

Offensively we are making tons of mistakes now, which we didn't used to do even though we had Jermaine Wiggins, JR Redmond, 7th rd pick David Givens, castoff David Patten, etc etc.


different scheme........if weis was still around, the pats would never have considered randy moss.......

I'd have no problems bringing weis and his way of running the offense back.........
 
Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

Offensively we are making tons of mistakes now, which we didn't used to do even though we had Jermaine Wiggins, JR Redmond, 7th rd pick David Givens, castoff David Patten, etc etc.

In 2001, Patten was 27 and in his fifth season
In 2001, Redmond was the backup running back
In 2001, Wiggins was 26 and in his second season and was not the #1 TE
In 2001, Givens was not on the team. He got on the team in 2002, the year that the Patriots DID NOT make the playoffs. He caught 9 catches as a rookie and didn't make a single start.

So, exactly how are your examples supposed to serve as any refutation of my post?
 
Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

Now, the defense is full of rookies and second year players. Not surprisingly, we're seeing a lot more mistakes made on the field.

Offensively now we have second year players or players who are not 'grizzled vets' as you put it, and we still make tons of mistakes, when we didn't before. Unknown guys like Jermaine Wiggins and JR Redmond were on the first Superbowl winning drive.

Patten was 27 but by no means known as a good player when we got him, but he made plays for us. Now we have seen experienced guys like Gaffney and Caldwell make huge drops.

Defensively yes, it was mostly old guys before.
 
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Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

Offensively now we have second year players or players who are not 'grizzled vets' as you put it, and we still make tons of mistakes, when we didn't before. Unknown guys like Jermaine Wiggins and JR Redmond were on the first Superbowl winning drive.

Patten was 27 but by no means known as a good player when we got him, but he made plays for us. Now we have seen experienced guys like Gaffney and Caldwell make huge drops.

Defensively yes, it was mostly old guys before.

Wait... you're judging this based upon one drive?

You really need to get away from the computer for a few months, especially if you can't seem to recall players like Patten and company making mistakes. You've allowed yourself to become a self-parody.
 
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Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

Wait... you're judging this based upon one drive?

I am judging from a 3 year body of work, which you seem to not be able to see since McDaniels' nuts are covering both of your eyes.
 
Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

I am judging from a 3 year body of work, which you seem to not be able to see since McDaniels' nuts are covering both of your eyes.

No, you're clearly not doing that. You specifically pointed to one drive. If you had been judging from a 3 year body of work, you'd never have pointed to Redmond, just for one example. Then again, since you really can't back up your arguments, it's not surprising that you'd take that approach.
 
Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

I am judging from a 3 year body of work, which you seem to not be able to see since McDaniels' nuts are covering both of your eyes.

Danger! Will Robinson! Danger! We are being attacked by a thread hijacker.

Of course when tombonneau started this thread comparing this year's Colts to the Pats of 2001-2004, what he really was doing was clearly stating that McDaniels sucks and time to pile on.

Seriously do you really need to turn every thread into a McDaniels bashing thread. Didn't NEM get banned a few times for this? But yeah, we know you think McDaniels is a pretty good OC, but you just like to point all the reasons why you think he is completely incompent as an OC.
 
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Re: We Have Become the 01-04 Colts

Of course when tombonneau started this thread comparing this year's Colts to the Pats of 2001-2004, what he really was doing was clearly stating that McDaniels sucks and time to pile on.

Was it that transparent?
 
You are talking about one game with the Patriots.

Saying the Colts have been playing mediocre to average football is watching the game. The Colts were outplayed by a bad Browns team with their better QB out of the game for most of the game. They played horrible defense vs. the Patriots. They nearly lost to the Texans twice. They should have lost to the Vikings.

There has been only a handful of games where I thought the Colts played good or great football. Otherwise, they played so-so to decent at best football with teams just allowing them to hang around and let them win. The team has a 0.6 margin of victory per game and in hindsight they haven't had the hardest schedule in the world. When you beat your competition for the season by an average of less of a point per game, that isn't good football unless you have one statistically anomally where one opponent won by 30 points or something like that.

The Colts deserved to lose the game yesterday and one play made the difference between them losing and winning. And they had about three to four other games where that happened. They could easily be 4-8 right now than 8-4 if it wasn't for a handful of plays. You could never say that about the Patriots of 2003 or 2004.

The Colts are playing good football based on this year's level of play I guess since no one is playing consistent football. But typically I would say it wasn't great football.


*How exactly were the Colts "outplayed" versus the Browns?? Statistically, it was similar for both teams. A Wayne catch and Addai getting one more nose hair, and the Colts were off to the races versus the Browns. Colts defense made the play to change the game. In this 5 game win streak, our O line has been a solid unit, giving up 2 meaningless sacks to the Steelers. Otherwise, Manning has been clean. As far as their "better QB" being out, says who? I would have much rather faced the rookie in Quinn than the "veteran" (who as at least tasted success).

*Horrible defense versus Pats? Yeah, we gave up the yards, but not the points. The horrible defense didn't let Moss and Welker get untracked. The horrible defense belonged to the Pats. Best drive of the year for the Colts was an absolute thing of beauty. 15 Plays. 91 Yards. 9+Minutes. I've never seen Manning more in control of a game and a defense like he was on that drive. They also had 4 players with at least 4 catches who averaged at least 12.5 yards per. No you tell me, WHO played horrible defense that game??

*They nearly lost to the Texans twice. The 17 point comeback was certainly a game where you have to say the Colts were outplayed for 52 minutes. The Colts are a team knows how to play 60 minutes. Texans didn't finish. Blame the coaches, blame the QB, but the Colts still had to score those 21 points. They didn't choke or press. Even on the FIRST of three quick TD's, Manning didn't press. He knew before they could score 17 points (to tie), they had to score 7. In the 2nd game, it was see saw, but the Colts finally made a stop, and took a two score lead. They should have ended the game on their last offensive drive, but they did force Texans into a "must TD" situation. I would not call that a near loss, and would not say they didn't deserve the win.

*Should have lost to the Vikes?? Finally, they don't drop a pass that they could have score on. They kept the Vikes out of the end zone (you want them to apologize for that, or for their stupid coach or organization, for going with Tavaris? NO WAY) Again. 60 minutes. Early in the season. Makeshift O-Line, with an immobile (still hurting QB). That was the absolute guttiest, MOST SATISFYING regular season win I have ever witnessed.

* So-so football, with teams allowing THEM to hang around? Absolutely the other way around. There has not been a team that they have not been able to move the football on, regardless of O-Line personnel. IMO, they have played down to their level of competition (not in every game)

*In hindsight, haven't had the hardest schedule in the world?? BEFORE the season, based on last seasons finishes, they were 1 game behind Pitt for the toughest W-L schedule. Their ROAD schedule (IIRC) eclipsed what the Steelers' road schedule presented. As of 12 games, Sagarin has them checking in with the SECOND most difficult schedule to date this season (Cincy is first). Sagarin might not be the end all be all, but he can't be THAT far off. Know who is slated with the 29th most difficult (4th easiest)? Your beloved Pats. Mircale they are 7-5 and in the hunt? Hell no. It's the SCHEDULE!

*Margin of victory has been slim. between 3 and 6 points in the last 5. While the games were not as lopsided as the scores, Chicago, GB, and Tennessee won by 16, 20, and 10. 46 points to make up in 9 games.

*Plenty of teams are a few plays a way from being upside down. The 4-8 Chargers are actually living proof of what the Colts COULD be. And to think you guys got waxed, 30-10.


Following comments not necessarily directed at you, but at other posters in this thread:

Indy is not close to being like any NE team. Silly comparison, IMO. They are still offense first. The D is not a shut down D. Although they have been awesome in the 4th quarter, securing many victories by thwarting final drives, I do not count on this team to be able to win consistently with D.

Polian and the Colts have not emulated squat from anything the Pats do. Polian is his own man, his own GM, and builds a team his way, and has done it with three different clubs.

Our team is still on of the youngest in the league, that might have it's best mix of seasoned veterans to date. Manning/Harrison/Saturday/Diem/Wayne/Clark have been around a long time, they are among the best players, and always have been, but now they have that "veteran" label. The defense, with Brackett/Sanders/Freeney/Mathis have their best players as veteran players as well. In this way, perhaps they are similar to Pats teams of old.

As far as injuries, Brady tops the list, but it ain't like the Colts have been clean. Plenty of guys IR'd (as noted), but plenty that have missed several games that were actually more crucial. The O-Line has finally been able to play together for this 5 game streak, with only Saturday missing the most recent game. No one mentions our starter on the D-Line (Ed Johnson) who was a major contributor last season-he can join that "IR" list (not IR'd, but a starter gone). Quit**** was slated as a DT starter this season, and was going to be counted on for major minutes. Had the organization known he was going to bail, they most likely would have planned better for it. Not looking for sympathy, but these guys are still gone, that is fact.

In the end, I think this team deserves a look as a gutty team who plays 60 minutes, who knows how to win, who still has plenty of skills, who is still a threat to any team. And the road has not been paved with gold. Plenty of adversity (with schedule and missing personnel/injuries) to contend with this season.
 
It dawned on me yesterday as I watched the Colts win another game they really "shouldn't have won" -- making something five for the season -- that what I was watching was old school New England Patriots football.

The team isn't amassing a ton of yards or points, but you know what? They score TDs in the red zone.

The team occasionally gives up yards and I doubt ranks highly in many defensive categories. But you know what? They have one of (if not THE) best red zone Ds in the league, rarely giving up TDs.

So as I watched that game thinking the Browns "should have won", I realized they had the ball inside the ten twice, maybe three times, and came away with FGs. And that's not luck. That's the Colts being a good team that knows how to win games.

And I couldn't help thinking it all looked a bit too familiar ...

PS
With much disgust, I'll be putting down some $$ on whatever the latest Colts Super Bowl odds are ...

you can't be serious. if any team is becoming like the old pats, it's the giants. the giants D, oline, WR, TE and running backs and secondary are better than anything the colts have put up in the last 50 years. i even like eli over peyton since eli plays with so much heart.
 
It dawned on me yesterday as I watched the Colts win another game they really "shouldn't have won" -- making something five for the season -- that what I was watching was old school New England Patriots football.

The team isn't amassing a ton of yards or points, but you know what? They score TDs in the red zone.

The team occasionally gives up yards and I doubt ranks highly in many defensive categories. But you know what? They have one of (if not THE) best red zone Ds in the league, rarely giving up TDs.

So as I watched that game thinking the Browns "should have won", I realized they had the ball inside the ten twice, maybe three times, and came away with FGs. And that's not luck. That's the Colts being a good team that knows how to win games.

And I couldn't help thinking it all looked a bit too familiar ...

PS
With much disgust, I'll be putting down some $$ on whatever the latest Colts Super Bowl odds are ...

Good observation. Largely because I was thinking the same thing alast weekend, when I just knew Cleveland would lose.
 
Good observation. Largely because I was thinking the same thing alast weekend, when I just knew Cleveland would lose.

That's the same sick feeling I get every single time I watch the Colts and that's pretty much the essense of this thread. For example in the Steelers game, Pittsburgh was dominating them, Ben throws a ridiculous pick. Even though Pittsburgh is winning you just know it.
 
That's the same sick feeling I get every single time I watch the Colts and that's pretty much the essense of this thread. For example in the Steelers game, Pittsburgh was dominating them, Ben throws a ridiculous pick. Even though Pittsburgh is winning you just know it.
Dominating for 2 quarters does not an entire game make.

Pitt 18 first downs. Colts 17.

Pitt average gain per rushing play 2.2, Colts 3.3.

Pitt 3 penalties/20 yards. Colts 6/45.

Colts "dominated" Titans through their first possession of 2nd half, and still lost. Manning threw 2 picks, each was tipped. No one said Colts let Titans "hang around", but that is exactly what happened. Give the winner some credit. Titans finished that game, Colts finished versus Pitt. Big Ben is not as good as PM, and his decision making showed it. Don't take anything away from the Colts for that.
 
I agree that the Colts are doing a great job pulling out wins they shouldn't even be sniffing. But the teams they've done it against are all hardly impressive. Minnesota has no secondary, Houston stinks and did more to lose the game than the Colts did to win. San Diego sucks, Pittsburgh hasn't proved they can win a close game against a good team, and we all know how good the Browns are. That leaves the Patriots game. They kept us out of the end zone, but the game came down to a dropped pass and a stupid personal foul.
The big difference between the old school Pats and the Colts, IMO, is that the Pats always played defense and were usually ahead in the 4th quarter. The Pats would rarely blow a lead on the last drive (outside of the 01 SB) the way the Colts did against SD. Also, it always seemed like the Pats were in control all game, even if they were tried with a crap team like the Texans. It would come down to the Pats out-executing the other team each play in the fourth quarter, rather than relying on one huge play (like a Mathis fumble for TD against Cleveland).

edit- Also, you may not want to crown them yet. The old Patriots were 14-2 teams, not 8-4 teams who got annihilated by Chicago, lost to a terrible Jacksonville team and got beat by a Green Bay team who, if they are supposed to be a top team, they should certainly NOT be losing to.
 
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