Does Parcells belong in the Pats HOF?

[Ring 6]

See - here's the difference.

The Hall of Fame Selection Committee looks at the 4 years Parcells was here and sees that he took a team lucky to be 1-15 to a Super Bowl in 4 years.

SO did Ray Berry, 1981-1985.

They see someone who, well before Bob Kraft even owned the team, reinvigorated a dying fanbase

He did this by the amount that he won. Judge him on that.

drafted Bledsoe and not Mirer,

He quit because he couldnt make the draft picks so you want to give him credit for them? Executing the first pick in the draft by getting a decent QB instead of a terrible one (a decision EVERYONE in the world agreed with) is not HOF worthy.

established a tough defensive mindset,

Really? Check back on the defensive performance in his 4 years. You think they were a tough defensive team because you have that impression of PArcells, the facts disagree.

and made some nice draft and free agent choices himself - providing credibility and a strong foundation for future success

Again, Grier drafted. What Free Agents did he sign that were a foundation of future success? Is there even one?

They see someone who, through that revitalized fan base made it more feasible and attractive to buy the team - which wound up being a then NFL record amount, not in spite of Parcells, but in part because of Parcells.

Back to exaggerating the purchase price?

They are indeed forgiving him for leaving the team the way he did. You feel that's unforgiveable. They - the Patriots staff, former players, and media representatives - clearly do not.

We don't know how the staff and former players feel, because there are ZERO former players that were here during or after, the 'staff' is a statistician, an equipment manager and Ernie Adams (we dont know his vote) and 18 sportswriters, many of whom have belittled BB and praised Parcells for their interaction with the media.

1-15 to the Super Bowl in 4 years. You view that as a liability.

He was .500. He was .500 in the playoffs, he lost that SB.
Overall, the tenure was positive. Not HOF worthy though.

Trust me - for those of us who had been fans of the NFL's laughingstock team, expecting the organization to move to St. Louis or some far away state, that's not a liability.

If he truly deserved credit for what you are giving him credit for then it might be a factor, but Bill Parcells did not keep the team from being moved to St Louis.

By your logic, had Belichick left in a similar fashion after just 4 years, that too would be a liability. "UNCONSCIONABLE".

Forget about what Belichick DID in those 4 years from 2001 - 2004.... just like you want to forget about what Parcells did in "just" those 4 years he was here.

On the contrary we are judging exactly by what he did. A positive contribution, but hardly HOF worthy.

I'd have to say that me, Rob0, and the staff, players and media who make up the selection committee most certainly DO appreciate the "raw numbers of his short tenure"

We dont know how that voting went. You keep saying the 'staff and players' as if the voting was done by a bunch of football people and players.
It is 18 sportwriters
3 retired players who were all long gone before Parcells
Ernie Adams
A statistician and an equipment manager.

Hardly a more qualified group than a bunch of Patriots fans.

What we see is someone who brought a 1-15 on the brink of moving to the Super Bowl in just 4 years, creating a culture of credibility and toughness that was a critical cog of the 2001 dynasty starting team.

Your joking right? The culture of 1996 didnt carry over to 2001 through the Pete Carrol era. Are you seriously telling me that PArcells created a culture of toughness that led us through the Carrol years, and BB just stepped in to a great culture? Nothing could possibly be further from the truth.

They don't focus solely on W-Ls and other stats like jilted boyfriends at a prom, upset at the way their date broke up with them. They focus on the big picture - and in the big picture, the culture change brought in by Parcells in just 4 years was HUGE to history and evolution of this team in MANY different ways.

I think I see what is going on here. You had lost interest in the Patriots and you got interested again when they won under Parcells, and kinda paid attention during the Carroll years. When BB started winning you associated it back to PArcells and gave him credit.
You missed a lot while you weren't paying attention.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If you're keeping score our current conspiracy theory seems to be that the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection committee made up of members of the media, organization staff, and former players, were somehow brainwashed or otherwise have a soft spot in their heart for Parcells.

This in turn led them to declare Parcells "worthy of the Patriots Hall of Fame"

Even though Robo pointed out that most of the media representatives were not covering the Patriots at the time - as Patfanken says, since they were covering the Patriots they were covering the NFL and thus covering Parcells and therefore must be unable to make an unbiased judgement.

I guess its too bad they can't be as impartial as most die hard Patriots fans

Brainwashed or seduced, much like the Rex Ryan phenomenon in NY these days who if you gave him a couple of rings to back up his engaging bravado he'd have the media eating out of his hand for evah... Those guys become teflon coated where the media is concerned because they make the media's job easier. Whereas a guy like Belichick...they amplify his mistakes or misconducts because they can't stand him on a personal level because he doesn't play footsies with them. Parcells landed in Foxboro media pre-ordained at best a messiah and at worst a fun ride to relevance. Belichick skulked in here labled pond scum merely confirming the idiot new owner who already make a foolish mistake allowing Parcells to be "driven" away and replaced by a Poodle was making bad football decisions his reckless forte. Mannix, Hobson, Borges, Cafardo and the generation they were raising to follow them all echoed the same warning...until oops, along came Mo Lewis and somehow Kraft ended up getting chicken salad out of what was supposed to be a bunch of chicken ****...

Peter King actually questioned whether Tuna was still a slam dunk for the pro football HOF in the immediate aftermath of the information that came out in Patriot Reign. This was a guy who tried to pull the same crap with the Giants/Falcons after their first championship. And the guy who left them claiming health concerns immediately following the second...Only to seek out an odd couple pairing (fascinating story lines galore) after a brief media hiatus where his peers treated him like the oracle at Delphi...in persuit of his first Belichick-less Lombardi. The media created the myth of The Tuna and they always defend their creations. Even guys like Marrucci and Millen and Gruden and Casserley who can't land HC or GM jobs in the league are treated with similar deference by the mediots they've always played footsies with. Within the sports media it's alway been less about what you've actually accomplished than who you know and how much smoke you'll blow on que or what you'll divulge to help out a brother with a deadline and competition nipping at his heels...

Bert Breer is a great example of a kid who grew up hearing legendary Tuna tales only to break in to the business covering a sphinx with a handful of rings, who morphed into a Tuna Toady overnight (and seemingly cooled on BB simultaneously) when he went to the Dallas Morning News. Tuna knows how to play mediots like a violin. His regrets and remorse tour even played well as his time with America's Team wound down... misunderstood genius that he is it was time for them to play the meddlesome Jerry card for him. Ideal Miami was of course going to be his redemptive swan song...only as usual per mere morons who post on message boards as opposed to enlightened media who saw another Lombardi looming on the South Beach/Parcell's horizen, that too has ended on a predictable sour note complete with finger pointing in multiple directions... But the media doesn't really want to focus on that because to do so would potentially harm the Q rating of an icon they largely created. And who knows, Superman may not be done saving franchises yet...

Unlike fans who can be both totally irrational and brutally honest, the only stake the media ever has in all this is feathering it's own nest via access and information and advancing potential story lines. Covering guys like Tuna has always been a dream job for them. He's the Brett Favre of coaching in that respect...the gift that keeps on giving, win-lose or draw...active or retired...turning you around or bending you over... Doesn't matter, it's allways a compelling storyline... Those are the kind of assets they defend like their own kids. Guys like Belichick who just win and don't curry favor with the past, present and future deans of the football mediot universe get no consideration and palpably grudging respect at best because there is nothing in their success that personally or professionally benefits them as media long term.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Its not a conspiract theory. The media tends to treat guys they like better than guys they dont. Ask Jim Rice.


I don't think anyone is saying he threw the game, but he certainly appears to have mailed in his work in preplaring the team to win it. Unforgivable.


I don't understand this thinking. The 2001 Pats had gained so much credibility that PFW called them the least likely to make a SB.
Can you expand on how the 'credibility' helped the team on the field?
They were awful in 2000, lucky to be 5-11. How did Parcells 4 years, now 5 years removed, have an impact on the play of the 2001 team?

You guys still ignore the fact that a good part of the reason why we won those titles came from players that Parcells drafted years before.

Belichick was the coach who knew how to finally get these guys to perform at championship levels but a small,yet important nucleus of players came from the drafting of Parcells and the F.O. in 1993 until his departure.

Do we win without guys like McGinest,Bruschi and Brown?.....I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[JoeSixPat]

You guys still ignore the fact that a good part of the reason why we won those titles came from players that Parcells drafted years before.

Belichick was the coach who knew how to finally get these guys to perform at championship levels but a small,yet important nucleus of players came from the drafting of Parcells and the F.O. in 1994 until his departure.

Do we win without guys like McGinest,Bruschi and Brown?.....I wouldn't bet on it.

I'm giving up.

AJ, patfanken, et al are right.

The Patriots staff, former players and media - most of whom weren't here to cover the Patriots - were all biased and brainwashed.

They have no idea what they are talking about when they declare Parcells worthy of the Patriots Hall of Fame.

It's the average anonymous messageboard fan - who most CERTAINLY aren't acting like a jilted dumped lover with a chip on their shoulders - who are the only ones who can see clearly and unbiased.

I suggest you give up just like me.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I'm giving up.

AJ, patfanken, et al are right.

The Patriots staff, former players and media - most of whom weren't here to cover the Patriots - were all biased and brainwashed.

They have no idea what they are talking about when they declare Parcells worthy of the Patriots Hall of Fame.

It's the average anonymous messageboard fan - who most CERTAINLY aren't acting like a jilted dumped lover with a chip on their shoulders - who are the only ones who can see clearly and unbiased.

I suggest you give up just like me.

they just refuse to admit that Parcells did influence the future of the Pats,heck even Carroll did when he drafted Kevin Faulk who certainly helped pull wins out of losses during the glory years.

It all adds up...no one can argue that Belichick had the talent to get these guys to learn to win when Parcells and Carroll couldn't,but how anyone can argue that Belichick didn't have some talent to teach is fooling themselves

 

[Ring 6]

I'm giving up.

AJ, patfanken, et al are right.

The Patriots staff, former players and media - most of whom weren't here to cover the Patriots - were all biased and brainwashed.

I have never said that.

They have no idea what they are talking about when they declare Parcells worthy of the Patriots Hall of Fame.

I haved never said that.

It's the average anonymous messageboard fan - who most CERTAINLY aren't acting like a jilted dumped lover with a chip on their shoulders - who are the only ones who can see clearly and unbiased.

I have never said that

I suggest you give up just like me.

I am sorry that you seem to be personally hurt and offended when someone disagrees with your opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

You guys still ignore the fact that a good part of the reason why we won those titles came from players that Parcells drafted years before.

How can I be ignoring it when I have addressed it numerous times.
IMO, you are giving him way too mcuh credit for it.
First of all, he left because he couldnt make the picks, so how does he now get credit for the picks.
Second, it is not an enormous accomplish to have brought in a few players who were contributing 5 years later. Are we going to give McPHerson, Rust, Jankowski, etc, credit for the games Parcells won?

Belichick was the coach who knew how to finally get these guys to perform at championship levels but a small,yet important nucleus of players came from the drafting of Parcells and the F.O. in 1993 until his departure.

As is the case with every team ever. Being here when a handful of players arrived is a nice accomplishment, but I dont see how it is HOF worthy.

Do we win without guys like McGinest,Bruschi and Brown?.....I wouldn't bet on it.

So are you saying Bobby Grier should be inducted in the Pats HOF?
You are acting like unless every player Parcells brought in was gone before we won, then he gets the credit. Should Pete Carroll get inducted? I think we had as many or close to it, starters in SB XXXVI that arrived in his era as arrived in Parcells.

No one is saying his tenure was a failure or did nothing to further the organization. Its just not Hall of Fame worthy.

 

[Ring 6]

You guys still ignore the fact that a good part of the reason why we won those titles came from players that Parcells drafted years before.

How can I be ignoring it when I have addressed it numerous times.
IMO, you are giving him way too mcuh credit for it.
First of all, he left because he couldnt make the picks, so how does he now get credit for the picks.
Second, it is not an enormous accomplish to have brought in a few players who were contributing 5 years later. Are we going to give McPHerson, Rust, Jankowski, etc, credit for the games Parcells won?

Belichick was the coach who knew how to finally get these guys to perform at championship levels but a small,yet important nucleus of players came from the drafting of Parcells and the F.O. in 1993 until his departure.

As is the case with every team ever. Being here when a handful of players arrived is a nice accomplishment, but I dont see how it is HOF worthy.

Do we win without guys like McGinest,Bruschi and Brown?.....I wouldn't bet on it.

So are you saying Bobby Grier should be inducted in the Pats HOF?
You are acting like unless every player Parcells brought in was gone before we won, then he gets the credit. Should Pete Carroll get inducted? I think we had as many or close to it, starters in SB XXXVI that arrived in his era as arrived in Parcells.

No one is saying his tenure was a failure or did nothing to further the organization. Its just not Hall of Fame worthy.

Does **** Rehbein belong in the Pats HOF for recommending Tom Brady?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You guys still ignore the fact that a good part of the reason why we won those titles came from players that Parcells drafted years before.

Belichick was the coach who knew how to finally get these guys to perform at championship levels but a small,yet important nucleus of players came from the drafting of Parcells and the F.O. in 1993 until his departure.

Do we win without guys like McGinest,Bruschi and Brown?.....I wouldn't bet on it.

Parcell's didn't draft most of his Giants players, including LT and Simms. In fact he almost lost his HC job after his 1982 rookie season over benching the QB who would become MVP of that first superbowl win. Never hear GM George Young or HC Ray Perkins and his staff from 1979 on - including Ron Erhardt who as OC after getting canned as the HC here turned Simms career around or that other Bill who as new DC in 1982 finally got the defense clicking - get any credit for that Giants championship team they drafted the foundations of... Nope, it's all about the charismatic Tuna... He was always a charmer in his own egomaniacal way. Seldom see a guy turn down and stiff teams and get a second chance to coach for them...

 

[Rob0729]

Krafts first choice was to make improvents to the existing stadium in Foxboro and near his property. He was met with opposition at all fronts. Then, he started looking at other locations around Boston. Again, more red tape and road blocks. Mass only came around to the orginal Foxboro plan when it was announced that Conn would vote on the Pats Hartford stadium and there was an actual threat that Kraft was serious about moving the team.

Playing hard ball is nothing new, every time an NFL team desires a new venue and meets resistance, ownership threatens to relocate eventually getting their way. It worked with the Browns. The Chargers are threatening to move, there are rumblings the Vikings will go to L.A.

If Kraft was moving to Hartford all along, he waited until that was his last option.

I was down in the Gillette area few years ago on a weekday. It was a ghost town save for a few folks at the Pats Pro shop. Hard to believe land so valuable and profitable wasnt developed into Six Flags, housing developments and shopping. I guess seedy hotels and car dealerships are making a fortune down there.

First, you have a way of creating history. Kraft didn't go to South Boston because he failed to get funding to build in Foxboro. He went to South Boston with dreams of building another Camden Yards with a multiuse area that would make him a fortune in revenues. Kraft didn't consider moving there because he couldn't get a stadium in Foxboro, but because he saw a huge revenue opportunity.

And Patriot Place was dead on a weekday?!? So like the Wrentham Outlets, South Shore Plaza, and virtually every shopping center in the state, it was slow when people are at work. Well that settles it. There is your proof that if Kraft build a housing community like the one built in the old airforce base in Weymouth, that it would fail. Or a Six Flags would have failed.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I am sorry that you seem to be personally hurt and offended when someone disagrees with your opinion.

Trust me - I'm not hurt that you and others don't agree with my opinion on Parcells.

Quite the contrary, I'm pleased and proud that the Patriots staff, Patriots media, and former Patriots player all agree with my assessment of the Parcells years.

 

[Rob0729]

Contradictory

Nothing contraditory about it. You make it sound like the fans said to themselves that since Kraft kept the Pats in Foxboro, the least they could do is buy season tickets. I am saying because of the direction of the team, there was a renewed interest in the team. With Kraft keeping the team in Foxboro it made fans willing to make a financial interest in the team now they knew that spending $500-$1000 at the time for season tickets was not going to be for one year where the Pats would pick up and move to St. Louis the next.

Nobody knows

LOL! Everyone knows. You kidding me?!? So you are arguing that fans would have sold out the stadium for a team that wasn't going to get more than 4-5 wins and was hopelessly rudderless. You are saying the only reason the Pats sold out the stadium in 1994 was because of appreciation to Kraft buying the team?!?

No, Kraft would have fired Rust or anybody else and found a new HC like he did after Parcells quit. If Kraft wanted to be in the amusement park business theres still lots of land around his stadium to build.

The facts are that Kraft owned the stadium and had tried to buy the Pats long before Parcells showed up. Kraft wanted to buy the Pats all along and he bought the team when it was one of least profitable franchises in the NFL.

Parcells came with the deal but he was an arrogant arsehole that Kraft couldnt get along with.

First, you keep on saying that Kraft tried to buy the team before with no evidence of it. I looked online and did not find one citation stating he tried to buy the team before. Just because he bought the land around it and the stadium for a major deal doesn't mean he ever tried to buy the team. He could have when the Sullivans went bankrupt and didn't and could have at least tried when Kiam went belly up. Orthwein took it in the bankrupcy, but never wanted to be an owner and would have not blocked a sale if he could have gotten paid.

Second, an amusement park is only one option. It seems the option you want to glom onto. You ignored the shopping center, upscale or just regular homes, condo complex, or mixed use ideas.

Third, if Rust or MacPherson was here, he might have accepted the $75 million buyout because under them, the interest in the Patriots was at an all time low. Kraft might not have seen the value of not accepting a $75 million buyout and using that money to develop the land.

Fourth, Kraft and Parcells didn't have an adversarial relationship until the end. Kraft has also said he learned that he made mistakes in that relationship and that is why he is far more hands off with Belichick even from the start.

The Pats didnt have the cap space.

It wasn't the fact they didn't give him a new deal. It was the fact they didn't give him a new deal and Bobby Grier rubbed it in his face by talking to the media and bragging how great he was for having a Pro Bowl RB for around $300k on the roster. That burned Martin (it has been reported) since he was told they couldn't afford to give him a new deal and Grier was telling the public that they were forcing him to play out his contract because of Grier's geenius. If Grier took the Belichick approach of not talk about players' contract, that bridge might not have been burned.

 

[Rob0729]

Its not a conspiract theory. The media tends to treat guys they like better than guys they dont. Ask Jim Rice.

Baseball is slightly different just because there are still a lot of older writers on the Hall of Fame committee who still remember Rice, the politics for the voting on the HOF for baseball is way more political and petty, and number of votes to get in is so stringent. I mean there are guys who will never allow anyone to be a first ballot HOF because of what happened decades ago.

I don't think anyone is saying he threw the game, but he certainly appears to have mailed in his work in preplaring the team to win it. Unforgivable.

I have already said it was unforgivable, but it also doesn't diminish the positives he did for this team some of which we still feel today.

I don't understand this thinking. The 2001 Pats had gained so much credibility that PFW called them the least likely to make a SB.
Can you expand on how the 'credibility' helped the team on the field?
They were awful in 2000, lucky to be 5-11. How did Parcells 4 years, now 5 years removed, have an impact on the play of the 2001 team?

People down on them for a year or two is different than the attitude circa 1992 where they were compared to the Bucs and Saints as a franchise that was a mess from the players, coaches, and owners and may never be good ever again. It was prior to parity in the NFL which really started late in the 90s and the attitudes have changed and doomed franchises like Tampa and New Orleans could actually turn it around and win a Super Bowl.

If Parcells came in today, it would be a different thing because the league has changed dramatically in the last 15 years. It was before free agency and the cap really kicked into gear and people thought there were haves and have nots. The cap/free agency system changed all that within a decade's time.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Does **** Rehbein belong in the Pats HOF for recommending Tom Brady?

OK, in that case I might have to make an exception...

I'd certainly give him the nod over Tuna just on cause and effect principle. Although if I'm going to start inducting coaches under whom the record/impact vs. tenure warrants consideration, RAC and Charlie would qualify ahead of Parcells IMO.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Nothing contraditory about it. You make it sound like the fans said to themselves that since Kraft kept the Pats in Foxboro, the least they could do is buy season tickets. I am saying because of the direction of the team, there was a renewed interest in the team. With Kraft keeping the team in Foxboro it made fans willing to make a financial interest in the team now they knew that spending $500-$1000 at the time for season tickets was not going to be for one year where the Pats would pick up and move to St. Louis the next.

LOL! Everyone knows. You kidding me?!? So you are arguing that fans would have sold out the stadium for a team that wasn't going to get more than 4-5 wins and was hopelessly rudderless. You are saying the only reason the Pats sold out the stadium in 1994 was because of appreciation to Kraft buying the team?!?

First, you keep on saying that Kraft tried to buy the team before with no evidence of it. I looked online and did not find one citation stating he tried to buy the team before. Just because he bought the land around it and the stadium for a major deal doesn't mean he ever tried to buy the team. He could have when the Sullivans went bankrupt and didn't and could have at least tried when Kiam went belly up. Orthwein took it in the bankrupcy, but never wanted to be an owner and would have not blocked a sale if he could have gotten paid.

Second, an amusement park is only one option. It seems the option you want to glom onto. You ignored the shopping center, upscale or just regular homes, condo complex, or mixed use ideas.

Third, if Rust or MacPherson was here, he might have accepted the $75 million buyout because under them, the interest in the Patriots was at an all time low. Kraft might not have seen the value of not accepting a $75 million buyout and using that money to develop the land.

Fourth, Kraft and Parcells didn't have an adversarial relationship until the end. Kraft has also said he learned that he made mistakes in that relationship and that is why he is far more hands off with Belichick even from the start.


It wasn't the fact they didn't give him a new deal. It was the fact they didn't give him a new deal and Bobby Grier rubbed it in his face by talking to the media and bragging how great he was for having a Pro Bowl RB for around $300k on the roster. That burned Martin (it has been reported) since he was told they couldn't afford to give him a new deal and Grier was telling the public that they were forcing him to play out his contract because of Grier's geenius. If Grier took the Belichick approach of not talk about players' contract, that bridge might not have been burned.

Yeah - you almost didn't have to respond to any of that. How could it possibly be "contradictory" that the largest one day sale of season tickets just so happened to be the day after Kraft's offer was accepted by the NFL?

That fact alone illustrated just how close the team was to moving away.

The fact that Parcells was already here and was already turning the organization around and the fans were already pumped and primed, waiting only for confirmation that the team wasn't moving away is what drove season ticket sales.

Although many of the contrarians here think that Kraft would have paid an NFL record amount and turned down a 300% return on his stadium investment for the **** McPherson led 1-15 laughingstock Patriots team, that's not what happened, no matter how much they insist it "could have"

 

[patfanken]

Brainwashed or seduced, much like the Rex Ryan phenomenon in NY these days who if you gave him a couple of rings to back up his engaging bravado he'd have the media eating out of his hand for evah... Those guys become teflon coated where the media is concerned because they make the media's job easier. Whereas a guy like Belichick...they amplify his mistakes or misconducts because they can't stand him on a personal level because he doesn't play footsies with them. Parcells landed in Foxboro media pre-ordained at best a messiah and at worst a fun ride to relevance. Belichick skulked in here labled pond scum merely confirming the idiot new owner who already make a foolish mistake allowing Parcells to be "driven" away and replaced by a Poodle was making bad football decisions his reckless forte. Mannix, Hobson, Borges, Cafardo and the generation they were raising to follow them all echoed the same warning...until oops, along came Mo Lewis and somehow Kraft ended up getting chicken salad out of what was supposed to be a bunch of chicken ****...

Peter King actually questioned whether Tuna was still a slam dunk for the pro football HOF in the immediate aftermath of the information that came out in Patriot Reign. This was a guy who tried to pull the same crap with the Giants/Falcons after their first championship. And the guy who left them claiming health concerns immediately following the second...Only to seek out an odd couple pairing (fascinating story lines galore) after a brief media hiatus where his peers treated him like the oracle at Delphi...in persuit of his first Belichick-less Lombardi. The media created the myth of The Tuna and they always defend their creations. Even guys like Marrucci and Millen and Gruden and Casserley who can't land HC or GM jobs in the league are treated with similar deference by the mediots they've always played footsies with. Within the sports media it's alway been less about what you've actually accomplished than who you know and how much smoke you'll blow on que or what you'll divulge to help out a brother with a deadline and competition nipping at his heels...

Bert Breer is a great example of a kid who grew up hearing legendary Tuna tales only to break in to the business covering a sphinx with a handful of rings, who morphed into a Tuna Toady overnight (and seemingly cooled on BB simultaneously) when he went to the Dallas Morning News. Tuna knows how to play mediots like a violin. His regrets and remorse tour even played well as his time with America's Team wound down... misunderstood genius that he is it was time for them to play the meddlesome Jerry card for him. Ideal Miami was of course going to be his redemptive swan song...only as usual per mere morons who post on message boards as opposed to enlightened media who saw another Lombardi looming on the South Beach/Parcell's horizen, that too has ended on a predictable sour note complete with finger pointing in multiple directions... But the media doesn't really want to focus on that because to do so would potentially harm the Q rating of an icon they largely created. And who knows, Superman may not be done saving franchises yet...

Unlike fans who can be both totally irrational and brutally honest, the only stake the media ever has in all this is feathering it's own nest via access and information and advancing potential story lines. Covering guys like Tuna has always been a dream job for them. He's the Brett Favre of coaching in that respect...the gift that keeps on giving, win-lose or draw...active or retired...turning you around or bending you over... Doesn't matter, it's allways a compelling storyline... Those are the kind of assets they defend like their own kids. Guys like Belichick who just win and don't curry favor with the past, present and future deans of the football mediot universe get no consideration and palpably grudging respect at best because there is nothing in their success that personally or professionally benefits them as media long term.

thank you, well said.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Brainwashed or seduced, much like the Rex Ryan phenomenon in NY these days who if you gave him a couple of rings to back up his engaging bravado he'd have the media eating out of his hand for evah... Those guys become teflon coated where the media is concerned because they make the media's job easier. Whereas a guy like Belichick...they amplify his mistakes or misconducts because they can't stand him on a personal level because he doesn't play footsies with them. Parcells landed in Foxboro media pre-ordained at best a messiah and at worst a fun ride to relevance. Belichick skulked in here labled pond scum merely confirming the idiot new owner who already make a foolish mistake allowing Parcells to be "driven" away and replaced by a Poodle was making bad football decisions his reckless forte. Mannix, Hobson, Borges, Cafardo and the generation they were raising to follow them all echoed the same warning...until oops, along came Mo Lewis and somehow Kraft ended up getting chicken salad out of what was supposed to be a bunch of chicken ****...

Peter King actually questioned whether Tuna was still a slam dunk for the pro football HOF in the immediate aftermath of the information that came out in Patriot Reign. This was a guy who tried to pull the same crap with the Giants/Falcons after their first championship. And the guy who left them claiming health concerns immediately following the second...Only to seek out an odd couple pairing (fascinating story lines galore) after a brief media hiatus where his peers treated him like the oracle at Delphi...in persuit of his first Belichick-less Lombardi. The media created the myth of The Tuna and they always defend their creations. Even guys like Marrucci and Millen and Gruden and Casserley who can't land HC or GM jobs in the league are treated with similar deference by the mediots they've always played footsies with. Within the sports media it's alway been less about what you've actually accomplished than who you know and how much smoke you'll blow on que or what you'll divulge to help out a brother with a deadline and competition nipping at his heels...

Bert Breer is a great example of a kid who grew up hearing legendary Tuna tales only to break in to the business covering a sphinx with a handful of rings, who morphed into a Tuna Toady overnight (and seemingly cooled on BB simultaneously) when he went to the Dallas Morning News. Tuna knows how to play mediots like a violin. His regrets and remorse tour even played well as his time with America's Team wound down... misunderstood genius that he is it was time for them to play the meddlesome Jerry card for him. Ideal Miami was of course going to be his redemptive swan song...only as usual per mere morons who post on message boards as opposed to enlightened media who saw another Lombardi looming on the South Beach/Parcell's horizen, that too has ended on a predictable sour note complete with finger pointing in multiple directions... But the media doesn't really want to focus on that because to do so would potentially harm the Q rating of an icon they largely created. And who knows, Superman may not be done saving franchises yet...

Unlike fans who can be both totally irrational and brutally honest, the only stake the media ever has in all this is feathering it's own nest via access and information and advancing potential story lines. Covering guys like Tuna has always been a dream job for them. He's the Brett Favre of coaching in that respect...the gift that keeps on giving, win-lose or draw...active or retired...turning you around or bending you over... Doesn't matter, it's allways a compelling storyline... Those are the kind of assets they defend like their own kids. Guys like Belichick who just win and don't curry favor with the past, present and future deans of the football mediot universe get no consideration and palpably grudging respect at best because there is nothing in their success that personally or professionally benefits them as media long term.

Brutal, but quite so.

The Breer transformation was a major disappointment. From the insightful "Tales of the Tape" analysis to full blown mediot whose opinions are so biased he's not trustworthy or even interesting to read.

 

[townes]

Good point. Antwine was before my time, but compared to Parcells and Bledsoe, here is a quick list from the top of my head of people more deserving that Parcells and Bledsoe of being in a Patriot Hall of Fame, only counting those since.

BB
Kraft
Pioli
Brady
McGinest
Seymour
Law
Vrabel
Bruschi
Harrison
Light
Faulk
Brown
Woody
Wilfork
Warren
Scarnecchia
Weis

All of these guys contributed to the actual Championships that people are wishing to give Parcells and Bledsoe credit for.


So if we are going to put Parcells and Bledsoe in the Hall of Fame supposedly for 'starting' what these players, coaches and executives actually accomplished, its going to be very crowded in there.

Actually I agree with that for the most part but none are on the ballot. I don't rate Parcells or Bledsoe above those you listed but i think people are selling them short if they don't recognize that Parcells and Bledsoe changed the entire demeanor of the franchise from that of a perennial screw-up and loser to that of a team that had to be reckoned with. I give Kraft the bulk of the credit for the Patriots turnaround because he hired Belichik and Belichik is the primary reason they are now one of the great NFL franchises but i think forgetting the contributions of Parcells and Bledsoe is a mistake.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Actually I agree with that for the most part but none are on the ballot. I don't rate Parcells or Bledsoe above those you listed but i think people are selling them short if they don't recognize that Parcells and Bledsoe changed the entire demeanor of the franchise from that of a perennial screw-up and loser to that of a team that had to be reckoned with. I give Kraft the bulk of the credit for the Patriots turnaround because he hired Belichik and Belichik is the primary reason they are now one of the great NFL franchises but i think forgetting the contributions of Parcells and Bledsoe is a mistake.

People are not selling them short, if anything they may be getting too much credit. Things were very bad for the 4 years before Parcells and Bledsoe arrived. From 89-92 their record was 14-40. Before that, from 1976-88 they had 12 winning seasons out of 13 for a record of 113-83. From 76-92 the record was 127-123. Parcells record was 32-32, Bledsoe's as a Patriot starter was 63-60. Belichick's record post Bledsoe is 121-37.

They both helped to create a level of excitement after 4 brutal years, they both helped sell some season tickets. Parcells drafted key players on the dynasty teams. However most of the turnaround happened because of a change in ownership.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually I agree with that for the most part but none are on the ballot. I don't rate Parcells or Bledsoe above those you listed but i think people are selling them short if they don't recognize that Parcells and Bledsoe changed the entire demeanor of the franchise from that of a perennial screw-up and loser to that of a team that had to be reckoned with. I give Kraft the bulk of the credit for the Patriots turnaround because he hired Belichik and Belichik is the primary reason they are now one of the great NFL franchises but i think forgetting the contributions of Parcells and Bledsoe is a mistake.

This is where we disagree.
Lets say for example, that the Patriots from 1993-2000 were totally mediocre or even inept. What they did from 2001 to today would not be diminished at all by that.

I agree that Parcells improved the team in the 4 years he was here. I would debate that he left it in good shape for Carroll, but that is debatable. There is no way his efforts reached all the way to 2001, in any greater degree than any coach who had been with a team for 4 years, 5 seasons ago.

Yes, Parcells made 1993-1996 more enjoyable.
That is not Hall of Fame worthy.