DL Steve McLendon - the Pittsburgh Steeler RFA the Pats should target

[Miguel]

A couple Unsolicited Comments...

1 ~ Not taking sides, but I love Threads like this: Genuine Food For Thought. If I was running this Site, this would be precisely the sort of Thread I'd want to see more of: legitimate Ideas. Bravo, Brother Flyer!! :rocker::

Agreed. I just think that using terms "I'm being realistic" discourages theses type of discussions.

 

[patman52]

Don't worry about it flyer the vast majority of us get your point. He's a player we might want to look at.

That is what I understood also a guy who had some production in limited # of snaps who according to the beat writers is well thought of.

In a year where we do not have a 4,5, or 6th choice, I believe it would be prudent to bring him into camp with say a $250,000 bonus. Wilfork to me has been playing too many snaps and now that he is on the wrong side of 30 I would like to see BB try to lighten his load.

 

[Miguel]

Come on. You are arguing they want him so they are waiting for someone else to sign him to whatever they want to so they can match? If he was that valuable they would be proactive.

You can say the same thing about all of the RFAa this year but especially Emanuel Sanders. If Sanders is not valuable, then why make a tender offer at all. They did not tender two other possible RFAs. If Sanders is valuable, why have he and the Steelers not reach a long-term deal?

How many RFAs have signed long-term deals this offseason that pays them as a starter?

 

[Miguel]

But good players are getting a higher tender so it would seem there is a reason right?
Cruz is one example. There are others.

Like I said before "Given the lack of interest in making RFAs offers since 2010 a team should tender a player at the lowest level possible while also not making it tempting for another team to go after that player"

If the Giants had tendered Cruz at the lowest level then the other teams would be tempted to go after him.

 

[Miguel]

Cruz is a very good example to counter the argumnet that you don't have to tender anyone higher because no one signs any RFAs. THAT was the argument given.

I said "Given the lack of interest in making RFAs offers since 2010 a team should tender a player at the lowest level possible while also not making it tempting for another team to go after that player". That has been my argument all along.

If the Giants had tendered Cruz at the lowest level then the other teams would be tempted to go after him.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

t

I'm just responding to your comments.


Those are all your words, and that is what I am responding to. I am not putting words in your mouth, just reading the ones you write.
Not quite sure how you figure he passed Hood and Heyward, btw.

My bad he is only credited with 1 start.
This was about me supposedly claiming him to be a pats starter though...thats what you incessantly imply, and you're wrong.
He is the current front runner, for the steelers NT job. Go read any article by a pittsburgh journalist regarding the subject.
The writers also made it a point to state his practice, and limited play have shown him to be a better overall player than both hood, and heyward up to this point. Which is why there is talk of mclendon taking a DE spot, if those 2 guys don't get it together.
Those are all facts.
Stop acting, as if I'm making it up.

Everyone gets it...you don't like the player.
The steelers don't value him.
He'll always be a backup, cause that's what he has been up until now.
Unfortunately, for you many others disagree.

 

[Ring 6]

t

My bad he is only credited with 1 start.
This was about me supposedly claiming him to be a pats starter though...thats what you incessantly imply, and you're wrong.

I have never said you claimed he would be a Patriots starter. I'm not sure why you think I said it many times. If you find such a reference, I will clarify.

He is the current front runner, for the steelers NT job. Go read any article by a pittsburgh journalist regarding the subject.

That does not mean a lot to me.

The writers also made it a point to state his practice, and limited play have shown him to be a better overall player than both hood, and heyward up to this point.

You said he has moved ahead of them. There is nothing to indicate that, including that he has not been ahead of them at any point in his career.

Which is why there is talk of mclendon taking a DE spot, if those 2 guys don't get it together.
Those are all facts.
Stop acting, as if I'm making it up.

Fact? No. A fact would be that he played ahead of them at the end of last season. He did not. "Talk of him taking a spot if the guys who were ahead of him last year don't get it together (on the #1 ranked defense no less) certainly is not a fact.

Everyone gets it...you don't like the player.

Where have I said that? Disagreeing with your inflated opinion does not equal not liking the player.

The steelers don't value him.

Their actions indicate they do not value him AS MUCH AS YOU BELIEVE THEY DO.

He'll always be a backup, cause that's what he has been up until now.

I have not said this, nor do I believe this. But you cannot call him a starter at this point.

Unfortunately, for you many others disagree.

I am sure you can make up 1000s of thinks that I never said and do not believe that many others disagree with. Perhaps if you are going to make such comments, and driect them at me, you should use opinions I have actually voiced, instead of strawman after strawman?

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I have never said you claimed he would be a Patriots starter. I'm not sure why you think I said it many times. If you find such a reference, I will clarify.




That does not mean a lot to me.


You said he has moved ahead of them. There is nothing to indicate that, including that he has not been ahead of them at any point in his career.



Fact? No. A fact would be that he played ahead of them at the end of last season. He did not. "Talk of him taking a spot if the guys who were ahead of him last year don't get it together (on the #1 ranked defense no less) certainly is not a fact.




Where have I said that? Disagreeing with your inflated opinion does not equal not liking the player.



Their actions indicate they do not value him AS MUCH AS YOU BELIEVE THEY DO.



I have not said this, nor do I believe this. But you cannot call him a starter at this point.




I am sure you can make up 1000s of thinks that I never said and do not believe that many others disagree with. Perhaps if you are going to make such comments, and driect them at me, you should use opinions I have actually voiced, instead of strawman after strawman?

Maybe I should have clarified.
Mclendon, has shown more potential than both Hood, and Heyward up to this point.
Those are the words of beat writer Ed Bouchette.
Heyward, and Hood have both been borderline busts, for 1st round picks.
Mclendon hasn't passed them on the depth chart yet, but if he out performs them in preseason the steelers will have no reservations supplanting one or the other with mclendon.

As far as that 1st ranked defense nonsense....you know as well as I that stat is garbage...who cares about total amount of yards given up?
It's about points IMO

 

[Ring 6]

Like I said before "Given the lack of interest in making RFAs offers since 2010 a team should tender a player at the lowest level possible while also not making it tempting for another team to go after that player"

If the Giants had tendered Cruz at the lowest level then the other teams would be tempted to go after him.

The basis of this part of the conversation was the the level of tender provides an indication of the value the team places on them and the risk in losing them. If McLendon were viewed as a guy who is going to start, a gem, who has passed Evander Hood and Cameron Heyward at DE, etc, etc. it would seem that he would be someone they tried harder to protect.

I'm not disputing your analysis of RFA, I'm applying it to the implicit value of the player.

 

[Ring 6]

Agreed. I just think that using terms "I'm being realistic" discourages theses type of discussions.

Certainly wasn't intended that way. In fact I thought it was a valid reply given the context. I laid out the contract that the he could be offered and you asked why someone who thinks they are a starter would take backup money, and I responded that I was being realistic about the expectations of a player who played 136 snaps last season, in contrast to the poster who was considering him a starter.
In other words, I saw no reason to pay him like a starter. Did not mean the phrasing to be offensive.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe I should have clarified.
Mclendon, has shown more potential than both Hood, and Heyward up to this point.

Thats not really clarifying, that is totally changing your comment. Your original comment was he has passed them. Certainly you can understand why I object to comments that you later change to something else.

Those are the words of beat writer Ed Bouchette.

Maybe one of our differences is that this means nothing to me. If you follow any of my posts, I put very little credence in the opinions of reporters.
The fact that Mike Tomlin put those players on the field instead of him is 99% of all I need to know on the subject of who is considered better by those that matter.

Heyward, and Hood have both been borderline busts, for 1st round picks.

Heyward has not exactly broken out, but the fact is he still plays ahead of McLendon, so if you say Heyward is a bust it furthers questions McLendon in that he can't get ahead of him.
Hood is not a bust. He became a full time starter in year 2, and has started for 2 1/2 years now. He played 82% of the defensive snaps. Calling him a borderline bust is just ridiculous.

Mclendon hasn't passed them on the depth chart yet, but if he out performs them in preseason the steelers will have no reservations supplanting one or the other with mclendon.

That has no basis. There isn't even a strong indication that McLendon will be viewed as a DE. As far as I can tell (and I could be wrong here) he didn't play the position at all last season.

As far as that 1st ranked defense nonsense....you know as well as I that stat is garbage...who cares about total amount of yards given up?
It's about points IMO

In any measure the Pittsburgh defense was good. Calling it #1 ranked based upon the NFL-approved standard is simply short hand for that, with the point being they were a good defense so the liklihood of looking to bench players to supplant starters is not great.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Just curious Andy Johnson, what are your thoughts on the Pats potentially giving Sanders an offer sheet?
Yay, or nay?

 

[Ring 6]

Just curious Andy Johnson, what are your thoughts on the Pats potentially giving Sanders an offer sheet?
Yay, or nay?

It depends on how much of course, but I like the player, we certainly have need, I think he would be a good fit in what our offense will be evolving to, so I would be in favor of it.

My biggest want is pass rusherS.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

It depends on how much of course, but I like the player, we certainly have need, I think he would be a good fit in what our offense will be evolving to, so I would be in favor of it.

My biggest want is pass rusherS.

Not to take the thread off coarse, but how do you feel about Abraham, and Freeney?
Looks as if they're asking, for decent money.
What do you think they're worth $ wise to the pats?

 

[Ring 6]

Not to take the thread off coarse, but how do you feel about Abraham, and Freeney?
Looks as if they're asking, for decent money.
What do you think they're worth $ wise to the pats?

I'd sign both of them.
I have no clue what they are asking for, but this is a buyers market.
I would easily put 5-7 mill of 2013 cap money into pass rusher(s).
A relentless, dominating pass rush would IMO all but guarantee us a SB.
If we have to get it with older players, so be it.

We could use a rotation of Jones, Abraham, and Freeney at DE.
I would move Jones inside in some of the sub packages (3rd down, 2 minute D, playing with a lead, etc) and use both at DEs. In the base/sub packages that aren't close to 100% pass, rotate Abraham and Freeney opposite Jones.

I have no problem at all giving them both 2 year deal to spread up front money to keep this years cap down, and accepting one or both cause some dead money in 2014 if they hit the wall.

I'd prefer another Jones who will be here long term, but the pass rush would be my top priority.

 

[lillloyd]

I confess I haven't read through the entire thread, but as a Steelers' fan I can say that I'd pretty unhappy if McClendon was signed away.

The fact that he didn't displace Hampton doesn't mean the guy can't play. It's a complex defense, and the Steelers' coaching staff places a premium on experience...sometimes to a fault (IMHO), where they leave an aging vet in place a bit too long at times. I liken the Steelers' NT situation to their OLB situation in '07, when Harrison was sitting behind Joey Porter...in both cases the starting vet was aging, but also a longstanding, important cog in the defense that probably stunted the growth of a talented understudy. I'm not saying McClendon will become a perennial Pro Bowler like Harrison, but I do think he has legit starting talent.

The coaching staff is very high on McClendon FWIW. When we drafted Ta'amu, LeBeau himself came out unsolicited to say "don't count out Steve McClendon" to the press corps. In the short time he's played in games, he's shown himself to be very capable and disruptive.

The one thing I will say is that I don't know that he's got a prototypical 3-4 NT build-- at 6'4", 320 he's really ideal as a 5 technique end, just from a physical standpoint. But again he's done well at the nose in limited playing time...I sometimes wonder long-term though if sliding him out to replace Keisel eventually might not be a bad idea.

 

[lillloyd]

Maybe I should have clarified.
Mclendon, has shown more potential than both Hood, and Heyward up to this point.
Those are the words of beat writer Ed Bouchette.
Heyward, and Hood have both been borderline busts, for 1st round picks.
Mclendon hasn't passed them on the depth chart yet, but if he out performs them in preseason the steelers will have no reservations supplanting one or the other with mclendon.

As far as that 1st ranked defense nonsense....you know as well as I that stat is garbage...who cares about total amount of yards given up?
It's about points IMO

I like Bouchette. But he's expressing an opinion that I think it's a bit unfair to Hood (he is a starter, even if he's no Aaron Smith and in particular Heyward (who has only two years in a complex defense, playing behind a very good player in Keisel). These are young guys who are still developing, even if personally I have been a bit disappointed that Hood has been a relatively average 3-4 end to date.

People throw the word "bust" around too early and too often IMHO. JaMarcus Russell was a "bust". Ryan Leaf was a "bust". Hood and Heyward will both be at least serviceable starters for the Steelers at some point in their careers. I'm still hopeful that they (in particular Heyward) may develop into something more than that.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I confess I haven't read through the entire thread, but as a Steelers' fan I can say that I'd pretty unhappy if McClendon was signed away.

The fact that he didn't displace Hampton doesn't mean the guy can't play. It's a complex defense, and the Steelers' coaching staff places a premium on experience...sometimes to a fault (IMHO), where they leave an aging vet in place a bit too long at times. I liken the Steelers' NT situation to their OLB situation in '07, when Harrison was sitting behind Joey Porter...in both cases the starting vet was aging, but also a longstanding, important cog in the defense that probably stunted the growth of a talented understudy. I'm not saying McClendon will become a perennial Pro Bowler like Harrison, but I do think he has legit starting talent.

The coaching staff is very high on McClendon FWIW. When we drafted Ta'amu, LeBeau himself came out unsolicited to say "don't count out Steve McClendon" to the press corps. In the short time he's played in games, he's shown himself to be very capable and disruptive.

The one thing I will say is that I don't know that he's got a prototypical 3-4 NT build-- at 6'4", 320 he's really ideal as a 5 technique end, just from a physical standpoint. But again he's done well at the nose in limited playing time...I sometimes wonder long-term though if sliding him out to replace Keisel eventually might not be a bad idea.

Nice to get a perspective from a Steelers fan on this guy.
What are your expectations of him this year?

 

[Miguel]

The basis of this part of the conversation was the the level of tender provides an indication of the value the team places on them and the risk in losing them. If McLendon were viewed as a guy who is going to start, a gem, who has passed Evander Hood and Cameron Heyward at DE, etc, etc. it would seem that he would be someone they tried harder to protect.

I'm not disputing your analysis of RFA, I'm applying it to the implicit value of the player.

What you said what I said and what I said is two different things. That is what I found objectionable.

And what you are saying about McLendon could also be said about Sanders - If Sanders were viewed as a guy who is going to start, a gem, ...it would seem that he would be someone they tried harder to protect.

 

[Ring 6]

What you said what I said and what I said is two different things. That is what I found objectionable.

I didn't realize I attributed something to you incorrectly.
Did not intend to.

And what you are saying about McLendon could also be said about Sanders - If Sanders were viewed as a guy who is going to start, a gem, ...it would seem that he would be someone they tried harder to protect.

Valid point, however the difference is that Sanders is protected by 3rd round comp.