Denver vs NE post game thread

[Mike the Brit]

Nice story on Dave DeGuglielmo with well-merited praise for the way the O-line has improved:

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...lielmo_communication_is_the_key_for_patr.html

Let's hope that the message is just as cheerful at the end of the season.

 

[Ring 6]

So as I understand it, the lack of pressure and focus on underneath coverage forced him to take the longer ball opportunities where (1) his accuracy is less and (2) wind was more of a factor. Good "Rocket Scientist" thinking.

Disclosure: I have a JPL Rocket Scientist T-shirt.

Here is what I have seen so far.
First, we played some zone, but I almost dismiss that from the analysis because I think it was used simply to vary things up a little. It should be noted that their first TD drive was a drive we played quite a bit of zone on, btw.

Otherwise, mostly, we came up and played their received man on man. We had the extra LB roaming in the short are, and McCourty free. Jamie Collins had a lot to do with the success in this scheme. He played man on the RB, on the TEs, and in some cases on the slot.

IMO, this scheme was based upon film study. In the first quarter (I assume we did it all day, but havent gotten that far) we were sliding the DTs to WEAKNESS. The strong DT was in a 1 tech and the weak DT a 3, which I have never seen us do before. This had to come from film study and it worked. I think what they saw in Manning is that he looks for 1) the supposed mismatch 2) the quick hitters and/or the pick play creating an open receiver 3) the downfield WR.
He threw at Collins a ton of times, especially when it was clear he was in man. He threw to Hillman, Tamme, Welker and I think Sanders once, when Collins was man on them. (also at least once did the same with HT).
We took away the quick hitting stuff he likes by playing up on the recievers, and by the way, doing a great job of it. This led to a lot of throws up the sidelines to WRs in man, which he was not very efficient at.
I think the basis of the gameplan was understanding where Manning wants to go with the ball, and trying to force him to the type of throws he struggles the most with, through scheme and understanding his progressions and preferences.

 

[Ring 6]

Easy to say of course, but more difficult in the nuts and bolts. Who predicted the extensive 3 and 4 man rush using varied personnel or the coverage schemes that used, among other things, Browner on DT , Chung on JT, and Butler on ES? It took a creative and dynamic look to make that strategy work.

Another part of the scheme was that BB changed the matchups throughout the game and within series.
Manning couldn't get comfortable with who was covering who. I think that early we were lining up DBs in areas and they manned up on who lined up in their area.
Another thing I noticed is that Chung was almost playing LB. This helped the run D a lot, and worked well because Denver likes the tight formations, so you can play a safety in run support as well as on a TE or slot receiver.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Excellent contributions, AJ -- thanks.

 

[ensoul]

Late to the party but great win for the pats. D was great. O-line is doing their jobs and the receivers are finally giving Brady some help. Edelman was solid, Amendola was contributing and LaFell, beside the huge drop in the endzone, is catching some passes as well. Gronk continues to show why he is the best TE in the NFL.

Time to move on and look at the big picture though. Pats have harder schedule for the rest of the year than the broncos do and I am sure the last thing the pats want is playing another AFC championship game in Denver.

Pats:
@indy 6-3
Detroit 6-2
@Green Bay 5-3
@San Diego 5-4
Miami 5-3
@NY 1-8
Buffalo 5-3

Total record of teams the patriots are playing the rest of the year 33-26.

Broncos
@Oakland 0-8
@St Louis 3-5
Miami 5-3
@KC 5-3
Buffalo 5-3
@ San Diego 5-4
@Cincinnati 5-2
Oakland. 0-8

Total record of teams the broncos are playing the rest of the year. 28-36. You can also etch in stone the results of the Oakland games now.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

I'd be curious to know if any of Denver's (remaining) opponents could "effectively" put together a game plan similar to ours with some success (perhaps Cinci/KC?)

 

[rochrist]

Nice story on Dave DeGuglielmo with well-merited praise for the way the O-line has improved:

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...lielmo_communication_is_the_key_for_patr.html

Let's hope that the message is just as cheerful at the end of the season.

This is an interesting week because the position coaches get to speak to the media for the first time since the season started.

 

[rochrist]

I'd be curious to know if any of Denver's (remaining) opponents could "effectively" put together a game plan similar to ours with some success (perhaps Cinci/KC?)

Based on players or the coaching staff? Cause if it's the latter, Cinci is right out with Marv.

 

[PATS16N0]

The fact is, everything we said about Denver in the beginning was true. TJ Ward is a decent run stuffer but he's a huge liability elsewhere. The guy is basically Chung circa 2011. Talib hasn't been that impressive at all. He's had like one good game.

Peyton will be Peyton. (overrated, deer-in-headlights wilter)

Worrying about strength of schedule is silly because it assumes Denver and New England are equals, and one has a taller order than the other.

The fact is New England is very much better than Denver. Better QB. Better coach. Better offense. Better defense. Better special teams. We are missing impact players and we still throttled them.

The Patriots are going to have to really under perform one week to lose to any of the teams we have remaining, while Denver is probably going to be in a real fight for a 2014 division title.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Based on players or the coaching staff? Cause if it's the latter, Cinci is right out with Marv.

I was thinking personnel, but you raise an excellent point.

 

[OhExaulted1]

In an interesting side note, Manning decided he can no longer compete with Tom Brady as a man, so he decided to switch genders per FOX....

[/B]

 

[Ring 6]

Late to the party but great win for the pats. D was great. O-line is doing their jobs and the receivers are finally giving Brady some help. Edelman was great, Amendola was contributing and LaFell, beside the huge drop in the endzone, is catching some passes as well. Gronk continues to show why he is the best TE in the NFL.

Time to move on though and look at the big picture though. Pats have harder schedule for the rest of the year than the broncos do so they need to win more games because the last thing this teams wants is another AFC game in Denver.

Pats:
@indy 6-3
Detroit 6-2
@Green Bay 5-3
@San Diego 5-4
Miami 5-3
@NY 1-8
Buffalo 5-3

Total record of teams the patriots are playing the rest of the year 33-26.

Broncos
@Oakland 0-8
@St Louis 3-5
Miami 5-3
@KC 5-3
Buffalo 5-3
@ San Diego 5-4
@Cincinnati 5-2
Oakland. 0-8

Total record of teams the broncos are playing the rest of the year. 28-36. You can also etch in stone the results of the Oakland games now.

Schedule isn't that different really.
Take away Oakland during our bye and both are 7-2.

Raiders/Jets cancel each other out. The only reason either has a win is that they played each other, and forgot to tie.

Both play Miami, Buffalo and SD. (same home/away too)
That leaves us with @Indy and GB and Detroit at home
They have @Cincy and KC and at St Louis.

Very similar actually. I like us over Indy more than them over Cincy in the cold.
I like us over GB better than them over KC in the cold.
I like us at home against Detroit as just as easy a win as Denver at St Louis.

 

[pwes]

Gronk TD gif I just found. I remember seeing this thinking 'Did he just nod to him for the go ahead TD?' And no one even bothered to stop him. Were they even paying attention?

 

[PATS16N0]

Gronk TD gif I just found. I remember seeing this thinking 'Did he just nod to him for the go ahead TD?' And no one even bothered to stop him. Were they even paying attention?

That's Brady and Gronk just doing whatever the hell they want. Most dominant force in the NFL together.

 

[ausbacker]

Keep in mind that Reiss also cited specific examples.

"Wendell brings a little junkyard dog to the field, and that's a compliment, although there was some leakage to his side in the quarter when protection broke down (third-and-5, 8:58), which actually started with Stork (on Malik Jackson). Stork later had some more struggles (minus-3 run, 1:44). Right tackle Sebastian Vollmer also had a play to forget on an overload situation (5:19). "

Kinda hard to argue with that..

Not really. I imagine it's rare that you're going to win every battle in the trenches. Pulling a few plays out of 15 minutes isn't indicative of the full story. We routinely chastise posters for doing the same here.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Another part of the scheme was that BB changed the matchups throughout the game and within series.
Manning couldn't get comfortable with who was covering who. I think that early we were lining up DBs in areas and they manned up on who lined up in their area.
Another thing I noticed is that Chung was almost playing LB. This helped the run D a lot, and worked well because Denver likes the tight formations, so you can play a safety in run support as well as on a TE or slot receiver.

I'm sure you remember the playoff game where Ty Law played "non-standard" CB positioning. Law, Harrison, etc. sometimes switched positions and coverages giving Peyton unexpected coverages and complicating his reads. I'm slightly surprised that at this advanced stage in his career that Peyton can be flummoxed by this, but then there's a hell of a lot going on in fractions of a second in real time.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not really. I imagine it's rare that you're going to win every battle in the trenches. Pulling a few plays out of 15 minutes isn't indicative of the full story. We routinely chastise posters for doing the same here.

Ausbacker - the issue is clearly you. Nothing that Reiss said was off the mark.
1) The first example that Reiss mentioned led direction to a turnover and points by the Broncos.
2) The example at 8:58 led to the Pats having to go for it on 4th down.
3) The example at 5:19 led to an incompletion to Vereen. The Pats lucked out that Von Miller came off-sides on the next play to give the Pats the 1st down.
4) the last example was at 1:44 and led to a 3 yard loss as Vereen was taken down in the backfield.

So, while Reiss isn't an analyst, he was dead on about a series of plays that hampered the Pats during the 3rd quarter. The guys seemed to right themselves again by the 4th quarter and eliminate the mistakes, but acting like the mistakes didn't happen is just pure foolishness.

 

[ausbacker]

Ausbacker - the issue is clearly you. Nothing that Reiss said was off the mark.
1) The first example that Reiss mentioned led direction to a turnover and points by the Broncos.
2) The example at 8:58 led to the Pats having to go for it on 4th down.
3) The example at 5:19 led to an incompletion to Vereen. The Pats lucked out that Von Miller came off-sides on the next play to give the Pats the 1st down.
4) the last example was at 1:44 and led to a 3 yard loss as Vereen was taken down in the backfield.

So, while Reiss isn't an analyst, he was dead on about a series of plays that hampered the Pats during the 3rd quarter. The guys seemed to right themselves again by the 4th quarter and eliminate the mistakes, but acting like the mistakes didn't happen is just pure foolishness.

No, this issue is not me. The issue is Reiss cherry picked a few plays from a quarter of football (and I do agree, they had a few negative plays as is generally the case in a game of football) then made a broad statement about their performance in the quarter. If I did that, you would nail me for cherry picking plays. I'm not saying they didn't whiff on plays, I am saying Reiss is overstating the issue.

10 points in the quarter and over 150 yards of offense doesn't support Reiss' overriding contention at all.

 

[PATS16N0]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000423126/Week-9-The-Shek-Report

Shek stealing my talking points on Peyton's greatness this week.
1:57

Love it.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, this issue is not me. The issue is Reiss cherry picked a few plays from a quarter of football (and I do agree, they had a few negative plays as is generally the case in a game of football) then made a broad statement about their performance in the quarter. If I did that, you would nail me for cherry picking plays. I'm not saying they didn't whiff on plays, I am saying Reiss is overstating the issue.

10 points in the quarter and over 150 yards of offense doesn't support Reiss' overriding contention at all.

Yes, the issue is you because, while the offense "scored 10 points", you fail to acknowledge that 7 of those 10 points came off the interception that set them up at the Denver 10 yard line. What did the other 3 possession do? One was an interception that led directly to the Broncos getting 7 points. One was a stalled drive where the Pats had to take a huge risk to convert a 4th and 5 because of the afformentioned bad play at 8:58. The 3rd one? That carried over into the 4th quarter and led to a TD. But you didn't count that. But even on that drive, the O-line had 2 screw-ups that forced the Pats into bad situations.

Reiss only said that the O-line struggles re-surfaced in that quarter. And they did for that quarter. Which is all he said. And any unbiased person would acknowledge that a play that led to a turnover and plays that caused drives to be pro-longed are issues. They wouldn't make excuses and claim that things were "overblown" the way you are.

Was it a few untimely plays? Yep. But if you go back to the 1st four games, you could easily say the same thing. It was just a few untimely plays.. While the O-line didn't recover then, they DID recover against Denver. And that is what matters.