Defining The BB Defensive Back

[manxman2601]

@PatriotReign posted this thread in the main forum but I thought I'd put it in here too because there's obvious relevance.

Daniel Jeremiah had a section in his latest podcast (Move The Sticks, ep 11) about what BB looks for in defensive backs. This comes from a 2004 talk he attended by a scout that had worked with Belichick and Saban. Jeremiah took notes and these are some of the requirements for both CBs and Safeties.

CB

• Defending the pass is the lifeline of a corners game.
• A good CB will always be within an arms length of the receiver
• Has to have the confidence to play on an island
• Cannot go into 'the tank'
• All good corners are selfish and ****y. "Being a Turd" is not always a bad thing.
• There are no humble corners
• Has to have the right outlook on EVERY snap. Cannot get bored. Four plays will determine the outcome of a game.
• Has to have excellent athletic ability and instincts.
• Must have good ball skills downfield. Must be able to locate the ball downfield
• Should be a solid tackler. Gets guys on the ground.
• Plays physical with the wideout. Don't let the wideout get comfortable.
• Small corners with exceptional skills can still play in the NFL. Small corners with only good ball skills get beat.
• A good barometer for a corner is how often does he get his hands on the ball. Not just INTs but break ups too.
• Third corners are starters (bear in mind this was 2004).
• Dropped interceptions are killers.

Safety

• Can dominate from this position. Can't afford to mess up.
• Have to be a smart player
• Takes great angles. Not fooled by play-action
• Cannot win with a dumb safety
• There are no good soft safeties
• Must have good cover skills. Should be able to cover backs and TEs
• A safety that is just average against the pass must be exceptional in the run game.
• Box safeties aren't worth taking anymore.
• Free safeties should be able to cover like a CB
• Safeties should have a background of special teams.

I found the safety insight more interesting, I felt the CB one was a bit generic but still very interesting.

I thoroughly recommend anything from Daniel Jeremiah so go listen to his podcasts.

 

[mayoclinic]

@PatriotReign posted this thread in the main forum but I thought I'd put it in here too because there's obvious relevance.

Daniel Jeremiah had a section in his latest podcast (Move The Sticks, ep 11) about what BB looks for in defensive backs. This comes from a 2004 talk he attended by a scout that had worked with Belichick and Saban. Jeremiah took notes and these are some of the requirements for both CBs and Safeties.

CB

• Defending the pass is the lifeline of a corners game.
• A good CB will always be within an arms length of the receiver
• Has to have the confidence to play on an island
  [*]Cannot go into 'the tank'
• All good corners are selfish and ****y. "Being a Turd" is not always a bad thing.
• There are no humble corners
• Has to have the right outlook on EVERY snap. Cannot get bored. Four plays will determine the outcome of a game.
• Has to have excellent athletic ability and instincts.
• Must have good ball skills downfield. Must be able to locate the ball downfield
  [*]Should be a solid tackler. Gets guys on the ground.
  [*]Plays physical with the wideout. Don't let the wideout get comfortable.
• Small corners with exceptional skills can still play in the NFL. Small corners with only good ball skills get beat.
• A good barometer for a corner is how often does he get his hands on the ball. Not just INTs but break ups too.
• Third corners are starters (bear in mind this was 2004).
• Dropped interceptions are killers.

Safety

• Can dominate from this position. Can't afford to mess up.
• Have to be a smart player
• Takes great angles. Not fooled by play-action
• Cannot win with a dumb safety
• There are no good soft safeties
• Must have good cover skills. Should be able to cover backs and TEs
• A safety that is just average against the pass must be exceptional in the run game.
• Box safeties aren't worth taking anymore.
  [*]Free safeties should be able to cover like a CB
• Safeties should have a background of special teams.

I found the safety insight more interesting, I felt the CB one was a bit generic but still very interesting.

I thoroughly recommend anything from Daniel Jeremiah so go listen to his podcasts.

Good stuff. Thanks for starting this thread. I've bolded some of the things that are most interesting to me. I don't think the mental aspect can be stressed enough. Every CB will get beat. The good ones have a really competitive mentality.

This is what I wrote in the main forum thread, just for the record:

I don't know about what BB looks for. But what I'd look for:

1. Big, physical outside CBs with good press-man skills, good ball location skills, mental toughness, and fundamentally sound technique. Physicality and mental toughness are a must. Pure speed isn't. Draft prototypes: Kyle Fuller, Richard Sherman.

2. Safeties who are good in run and pass, with good vision and recovery time. For a bigger safety who can play more of an enforcer role, they have to have great instincts and football intelligence, and the ability to match up with TEs. Draft prototypes: Earl Thomas/Devin Mccarty for a rangy safety; Jonathan Cyprien for a bigger safety.

3. Slot CBs: good quickness and mobility (3-cone, SS time), physical, strong in run support. Draft prototypes: Brandon Boykin.

I think that Jeremiah's point about safeties having a STs background is an interesting one. It's certainly a good place to develop tackling skills. I remain intrigued by Nate Ebner's long term potential.

Some DBs in recent drafts who I've really liked:

CBs: Kyle Fuller (2014), Phillip Gaines (2014), Tharold Simon (2013), Richard Sherman (2011), Jimmy Smith (2011 - but he had huge red flags), Sean Smith (2009)
Safeties: Deone Bucannon, Jonathan Cyprien (2013), DJ Swearinger (2013), Harrison Smith (2012)

Some highly rated guys I didn't like: Mark Barron, Matt Elam, Eric Reid, Prince Amukamara, Kyle Wilson, Justin Gilbert.

 

[manxman2601]

Good stuff. Thanks for starting this thread. I've bolded some of the things that are most interesting to me. I don't think the mental aspect can be stressed enough. Every CB will get beat. The good ones have a really competitive mentality.

This is what I wrote in the main forum thread, just for the record:



I think that Jeremiah's point about safeties having a STs background is an interesting one. It's certainly a good place to develop tackling skills. I remain intrigued by Nate Ebner's long term potential.

Some DBs in recent drafts who I've really liked:

CBs: Kyle Fuller (2014), Phillip Gaines (2014), Tharold Simon (2013), Richard Sherman (2011), Jimmy Smith (2011 - but he had huge red flags), Sean Smith (2009)
Safeties: Deone Bucannon, Jonathan Cyprien (2013), DJ Swearinger (2013), Harrison Smith (2012)

Some highly rated guys I didn't like: Mark Barron, Matt Elam, Eric Reid, Prince Amukamara, Kyle Wilson, Justin Gilbert.

Well Mark Barron and Kyle Fuller are two of my favourite ever prospects to scout and I still think Barron can be good in the right system. It's looking like I got Justin Gilbert wrong but one person I think really fits the CB description is Bashaud Breeland who's doing well in Washington (i think).

I wonder whether Matt Elam was even on our board - Of any safety I've seen, he fitted the "box safety" stereotype. I note that he only had 15 snaps for Baltimore the other day.

 

[mayoclinic]

Well Mark Barron and Kyle Fuller are two of my favourite ever prospects to scout and I still think Barron can be good in the right system. It's looking like I got Justin Gilbert wrong but one person I think really fits the CB description is Bashaud Breeland who's doing well in Washington (i think).

Yeah, I should have included Breeland on my list. After Fuller and Gaines he was probably my favorite CB last year.

It's way too early to tell about Gilbert, but something struck me wrong about him. He had all the measurables, but I'm not sure he has the mentality.

I wonder whether Matt Elam was even on our board - Of any safety I've seen, he fitted the "box safety" stereotype. I note that he only had 15 snaps for Baltimore the other day.

Calvin Pryor is another - a guy who I liked at first, but ended up dropping down (you won that argument). OTOH, Eric Reid has been much better than I expected, and DJ Swearinger has been too much like Brandon Meriweather.

 

[manxman2601]

Yeah, I should have included Breeland on my list. After Fuller and Gaines he was probably my favorite CB last year.

It's way too early to tell about Gilbert, but something struck me wrong about him. He had all the measurables, but I'm not sure he has the mentality.



Calvin Pryor is another - a guy who I liked at first, but ended up dropping down (you won that argument). OTOH, Eric Reid has been much better than I expected, and DJ Swearinger has been too much like Brandon Meriweather.

If you go through that list, Fuller and Breeland tick pretty much every box. Breeland might have lacked BB's preferred athleticism though...ran a 4.62 which is barely fast enough in todays NFL.