Defensive Front Seven In Fine Shape

[mgteich]

I must have missed the nfl memo that indicated that we had $50M and a full set of draft choices. We have limited resources. I do understand that we COULD move up in the draft and take a POTENTIAL starting DE and a PASS-RUSHING DT. We could draft 2 top players and do the rest in free agency, which per your plan includes adding a free agent linebacker.

I suppose that we COULD do what you wish if we passed on Welker, Vollmer and an top level wide receiver.

So since every team wants a strong front 7 we shouldn't?
Where did I say ignore the secondary?
I'm taking about adding a starting de, pass rushing dt and depth at lb.
When did that mean don't do anything in the secondary?
A great pass rush will help the secondary as much as improving coverage.
Or we can go through a whole season then watch an average offense drive right shown the field for 3 straight tds while facing 1 single 3rd down because no one can get close enough to breath I the qb.
Save your indigence and open your eyes


Posted from Patsfans.com App for Android

 

[eom]

look, every one of 32 teams wants a dominant front 7 --- nobody on this board is telling you they don't want one.

So since every team wants a strong front 7 we shouldn't?

do you even bother reading these replies, or am I talking to some kind of arguebot script?

you just took DL in the first and 2nd, hoping they'll contribute in their rookie years --- now what do you do?
I'll give you 15m cap, the 3rd, and you can take all the potshots you want at the bottom of the draft.

GO!!

 

[supafly]

I could certainly see a DT taken in one of the top 3 rounds, as we could definitely use some new youth and talent mixed in to the line, specifically on the interior pass rush.

Besides that though, I think that Belichick will go the usual route of trying to add some depth, talent, and competition through the lower level signings and possibly camp/cap casualties.

The front seven was addressed with 3 high picks in the top 3 rounds last year. I'd have a hard time seeing that replicated again, especially when there are much bigger needs in the secondary/WR/and OL.

We saw the defense improve with a much better secondary towards the end of the year. When Talib was present in the AFCCG it looked like they were having their way with Baltimore's offense for quite awhile. Unfortunately that didn't last and I think that had a lot to do with guys like Cole and Arrington failing to cover down the stretch of the game.

So far we have Armstead, Vega, and Pryor added in the mix. Francis, Jones, and Hightower will have had another year under their belts so that could help. A higher draft pick and some lower level vet signings is likely going to be the way to address this situation.

 

[coolguy]

The patriots need a vocal leader like vrabel was on defense and Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Fletcher and wilfork are clearly not that.

They need a player that can spark the team with his words and make big plays when the time calls for. The patriots don't have a player like that on their roster. right now

The ruling is still out on hightower.

 

[eom]

The patriots need a vocal leader like vrabel was on defense and Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Fletcher and wilfork are clearly not that.

They need a player that can spark the team with his words and make big plays when the time calls for. The patriots don't have a player like that on their roster. right now

The ruling is still out on hightower.

maybe they can talk ray lewis out of retirement

 

[patsfaninpa]

I could certainly see a DT taken in one of the top 3 rounds, as we could definitely use some new youth and talent mixed in to the line, specifically on the interior pass rush.

Besides that though, I think that Belichick will go the usual route of trying to add some depth, talent, and competition through the lower level signings and possibly camp/cap casualties.

The front seven was addressed with 3 high picks in the top 3 rounds last year. I'd have a hard time seeing that replicated again, especially when there are much bigger needs in the secondary/WR/and OL.

We saw the defense improve with a much better secondary towards the end of the year. When Talib was present in the AFCCG it looked like they were having their way with Baltimore's offense for quite awhile. Unfortunately that didn't last and I think that had a lot to do with guys like Cole and Arrington failing to cover down the stretch of the game.

So far we have Armstead, Vega, and Pryor added in the mix. Francis, Jones, and Hightower will have had another year under their belts so that could help. A higher draft pick and some lower level vet signings is likely going to be the way to address this situation.

I'd rather go LDE. Armstead is already 290 and it's easy to project him as a 3-technique upfield type dt. Hasn't had an off-season in a NFL strength and conditioning program. Kyle Love starts on running downs and you bring Armstead in on passing downs. The guy I'd like to get is Datone Jones - DE - UCLA. I think he can provide a good pass rush from LDE and a better push up the middle if we move him to dt in the nickel. I think the more snaps Wilfork and Ninko get off going forward the better they will be and the longer they will last.

 

[Ring 6]

do you even bother reading these replies, or am I talking to some kind of arguebot script?

you just took DL in the first and 2nd, hoping they'll contribute in their rookie years --- now what do you do?
I'll give you 15m cap, the 3rd, and you can take all the potshots you want at the bottom of the draft.

GO!!

Do you? Where did i say use a 1st and second on the DL?

 

[Ring 6]

I must have missed the nfl memo that indicated that we had $50M and a full set of draft choices.

Right because adding a top pass rusher, a sub DT and a vet min LB will cost 40 million and 3 picks

We have limited resources. I do understand that we COULD move up in the draft and take a POTENTIAL starting DE and a PASS-RUSHING DT.

Where did I say anything like this?

We could draft 2 top players and do the rest in free agency, which per your plan includes adding a free agent linebacker.

I suppose that we COULD do what you wish if we passed on Welker, Vollmer and an top level wide receiver.

More like any of the above.

 

[Ring 6]

do you even bother reading these replies, or am I talking to some kind of arguebot script?

you just took DL in the first and 2nd, hoping they'll contribute in their rookie years --- now what do you do?
I'll give you 15m cap, the 3rd, and you can take all the potshots you want at the bottom of the draft.

GO!!

Is there a reason you left THIS out of the part of your post you quoted?

what scheme do you plan to run on d -- 4-5-2?
because then we'd need a dominant front 9 and a couple more lb that can cover really well.

 

[eom]

because it wasn't relevant to my question -- did you see how I bolded a line to draw your attention to it?

 

[Ring 6]

because it wasn't relevant to my question -- did you see how I bolded a line to draw your attention to it?

Exactly. After the fact, and in response to my reply, you delete the part I was responded to and bolded the part I was not. That is my point.

 

[eom]

you are out of your mind.

 

[Ring 6]

you are out of your mind.

read your comment i quoted and think about what you just said

 

[supafly]

The patriots need a vocal leader like vrabel was on defense and Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Fletcher and wilfork are clearly not that.

They need a player that can spark the team with his words and make big plays when the time calls for. The patriots don't have a player like that on their roster. right now

The ruling is still out on hightower.

I think that a reasonable argument can be made that we could use a more vocal and physical presence, but the past couple of years have brought us closer to that aspect than before.

There are actually at least a couple/few of your players listed that are certainly leaders and are well respected by the rest of the defensive members. Wilfork, Mayo, and Spikes are all heavy hitting leaders.

Where this defense fails is in the secondary, at least in my opinion. We saw an obvious improvement in that area of the team in the last part of the season, so the hope is that they can improve upon/continue in that direction.

I know that an improved safety could go a long, long way in making this defense look much better, as could retaining Talib or replacing him with the same mold of physical CB. I don't think that we are too far away. The defense went all the way from 15th in points allowed last year to 9th in 2012. If they can continue upon that progression and stay in the top 10 scoring defenses that could go a long way towards a better side of the ball.

 

[Ring 6]

I think that a reasonable argument can be made that we could use a more vocal and physical presence, but the past couple of years have brought us closer to that aspect than before.

There are actually at least a couple/few of your players listed that are certainly leaders and are well respected by the rest of the defensive members. Wilfork, Mayo, and Spikes are all heavy hitting leaders.

Where this defense fails is in the secondary, at least in my opinion. We saw an obvious improvement in that area of the team in the last part of the season, so the hope is that they can improve upon/continue in that direction.

I know that an improved safety could go a long, long way in making this defense look much better, as could retaining Talib or replacing him with the same mold of physical CB. I don't think that we are too far away. The defense went all the way from 15th in points allowed last year to 9th in 2012. If they can continue upon that progression and stay in the top 10 scoring defenses that could go a long way towards a better side of the ball.

I think any comments we make as fans about leadership are total bs because we have absolutely no clue about what is really going on.
I think talking about hard hitting intimidation at a time when the league is penalizing, fining and suspending players on what seems to be a standard that a hard hit equals an illegal hit is chasing windmills.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think any comments we make as fans about leadership are total bs because we have absolutely no clue about what is really going on.
I think talking about hard hitting intimidation at a time when the league is penalizing, fining and suspending players on what seems to be a standard that a hard hit equals an illegal hit is chasing windmills.

So you want to field an ultra soft secondary because of fines and penalties? You realize those types of hits change games, right?

 

[tonyto3690]

do you even bother reading these replies, or am I talking to some kind of arguebot script?

you just took DL in the first and 2nd, hoping they'll contribute in their rookie years --- now what do you do?
I'll give you 15m cap, the 3rd, and you can take all the potshots you want at the bottom of the draft.

GO!!

Wait, so now it's law rookies can't contribute? Gronkowski? Asante? Dennard? Mayo? Seymour? Chandler? Hightower? Light? that's just a quick list of some obvious guys off the top of my head that all did a good job and contributed their first year.


The Patriots will have closer to 18 million after the entire draft IIRC.

Off the top of my head, I would then do:
-3 years, 6 million - Randy Starks (DT) [2 mill cap hit]
-3 years, 6 million - Julian Edelman (WR) [2 mill cap hit]
-2 years, 4 million - Brian Hartline (WR) [2 mill cap hit]
-3 years, 15 million - Aqib Talib (CB) [5 mill cap hit]
-4 years, 20 million - William Moore (S) [4 mill cap hit]
-1 year, .75 million - Hooman [.75 mill cap hit]
-1 year, .75 million - Arrington [.75]

It's yet to be seen what Aqib/Moore is looking for but that's probably where I'd go in your scenario. I personally would rather draft a safety and sign a free agent DT since the market is pretty well stocked with DTs and safety is a lesser issue with Gregory locked in and quality free agents will cost more than their worth.

But anyways, yes that would be a great offseason. Offense is set except arguably at RT which isn't a massive issue. Cannon can play there at a passable level which is all we need out of RT. I probably would like to bring in a backup T with the remainder but for that I'd actually have to go look and see who is available. We also would have a ton of quality depth on the DL which was a pretty huge issue for us. I would also like to bring in another potential starter calibre CB but with Dowling coming back hopefully that wouldn't be an issue.

QB - Brady
RB - Ridley, Vereen
TE - Gronk, Hern, Ballard, Hooman
WR - Lloyd, Edelman, Hartline

LT - Solder
LG - Mankins
C - Wendell
RG - Connolly
RT - Cannon


DE - Chandler, 2nd round pick A, Cunningham
DT - Wilfork, 1st round pick B, Love
DT - Starks, 1st round pick B, Deaderick
DE - Ninkovich, 2nd round pick A, Cunningham
OLB - Mayo
MLB - Spikes, Fletcher
OLB - Hightower

CB1 - Talib, Dowling
CB2 - Dennard, Dowling
CB3 - Arrington, McCourty
FS - McCourty
SS - Moore


That's a superbowl roster, easily.
Also something i'd enjoy seeing...

DE - Starks
NT - Wilfork
DE - Deaderick
OLB - Hightower
ILB - Mayo
ILB - Spikes
OLB - CHandler


EDIT:
Who was the last 1st round pick in the BB era to NOT contribute his rookie season? I think the closest argument is Solder because he wasn't starting and was a 6th OL for portions of the season before Vollmer went down. Maroney I guess, but even he was a good contributor his rookie year behind Dillon.

 

[Ring 6]

Wait, so now it's law rookies can't contribute? Gronkowski? Asante? Dennard? Mayo? Seymour? Chandler? Hightower? Light? that's just a quick list of some obvious guys off the top of my head that all did a good job and contributed their first year.


The Patriots will have closer to 18 million after the entire draft IIRC.

Off the top of my head, I would then do:
-3 years, 6 million - Randy Starks (DT) [2 mill cap hit]
-3 years, 6 million - Julian Edelman (WR) [2 mill cap hit]
-2 years, 4 million - Brian Hartline (WR) [2 mill cap hit]
-3 years, 15 million - Aqib Talib (CB) [5 mill cap hit]
-4 years, 20 million - William Moore (S) [4 mill cap hit]
-1 year, .75 million - Hooman [.75 mill cap hit]
-1 year, .75 million - Arrington [.75]

It's yet to be seen what Aqib/Moore is looking for but that's probably where I'd go in your scenario. I personally would rather draft a safety and sign a free agent DT since the market is pretty well stocked with DTs and safety is a lesser issue with Gregory locked in and quality free agents will cost more than their worth.

But anyways, yes that would be a great offseason. Offense is set except arguably at RT which isn't a massive issue. Cannon can play there at a passable level which is all we need out of RT. I probably would like to bring in a backup T with the remainder but for that I'd actually have to go look and see who is available. We also would have a ton of quality depth on the DL which was a pretty huge issue for us. I would also like to bring in another potential starter calibre CB but with Dowling coming back hopefully that wouldn't be an issue.

QB - Brady
RB - Ridley, Vereen
TE - Gronk, Hern, Ballard, Hooman
WR - Lloyd, Edelman, Hartline

LT - Solder
LG - Mankins
C - Wendell
RG - Connolly
RT - Cannon


DE - Chandler, 2nd round pick A, Cunningham
DT - Wilfork, 1st round pick B, Love
DT - Starks, 1st round pick B, Deaderick
DE - Ninkovich, 2nd round pick A, Cunningham
OLB - Mayo
MLB - Spikes, Fletcher
OLB - Hightower

CB1 - Talib, Dowling
CB2 - Dennard, Dowling
CB3 - Arrington, McCourty
FS - McCourty
SS - Moore


That's a superbowl roster, easily.
Also something i'd enjoy seeing...

DE - Starks
NT - Wilfork
DE - Deaderick
OLB - Hightower
ILB - Mayo
ILB - Spikes
OLB - CHandler


EDIT:
Who was the last 1st round pick in the BB era to NOT contribute his rookie season? I think the closest argument is Solder because he wasn't starting and was a 6th OL for portions of the season before Vollmer went down. Maroney I guess, but even he was a good contributor his rookie year behind Dillon.

That is a good framework of a possible plan. I think you are low on some of the contracts, but you also are using AAV for cap hit, so that balances it some. I may not agree with each decision, but great job showing the concept can work.

 

[Ring 6]

So you want to field an ultra soft secondary because of fines and penalties? You realize those types of hits change games, right?

Only if they create a play, and when they get flagged they change the game negatively.
Fans put a lot more value on the impact of one big hit than it gets. These are professionals, not 12 year olds who get afraid if they get hit hard.
I hate how the league has decided hitting too hard is a penalty, but ignoring that doesn't make your team better.

Any where did I say 'ultra soft'? Not wanting a slow safety who is only about laying the wood, which comes with penalties that get called more and more often but wanted to have a guy who can cover out there covering is not wanting softness.

 

[Ring 6]

Wait, so now it's law rookies can't contribute? Gronkowski? Asante? Dennard? Mayo? Seymour? Chandler? Hightower? Light? that's just a quick list of some obvious guys off the top of my head that all did a good job and contributed their first year.


The Patriots will have closer to 18 million after the entire draft IIRC.

Off the top of my head, I would then do:
-3 years, 6 million - Randy Starks (DT) [2 mill cap hit]
-3 years, 6 million - Julian Edelman (WR) [2 mill cap hit]
-2 years, 4 million - Brian Hartline (WR) [2 mill cap hit]
-3 years, 15 million - Aqib Talib (CB) [5 mill cap hit]
-4 years, 20 million - William Moore (S) [4 mill cap hit]
-1 year, .75 million - Hooman [.75 mill cap hit]
-1 year, .75 million - Arrington [.75]

It's yet to be seen what Aqib/Moore is looking for but that's probably where I'd go in your scenario. I personally would rather draft a safety and sign a free agent DT since the market is pretty well stocked with DTs and safety is a lesser issue with Gregory locked in and quality free agents will cost more than their worth.

But anyways, yes that would be a great offseason. Offense is set except arguably at RT which isn't a massive issue. Cannon can play there at a passable level which is all we need out of RT. I probably would like to bring in a backup T with the remainder but for that I'd actually have to go look and see who is available. We also would have a ton of quality depth on the DL which was a pretty huge issue for us. I would also like to bring in another potential starter calibre CB but with Dowling coming back hopefully that wouldn't be an issue.

QB - Brady
RB - Ridley, Vereen
TE - Gronk, Hern, Ballard, Hooman
WR - Lloyd, Edelman, Hartline

LT - Solder
LG - Mankins
C - Wendell
RG - Connolly
RT - Cannon


DE - Chandler, 2nd round pick A, Cunningham
DT - Wilfork, 1st round pick B, Love
DT - Starks, 1st round pick B, Deaderick
DE - Ninkovich, 2nd round pick A, Cunningham
OLB - Mayo
MLB - Spikes, Fletcher
OLB - Hightower

CB1 - Talib, Dowling
CB2 - Dennard, Dowling
CB3 - Arrington, McCourty
FS - McCourty
SS - Moore


That's a superbowl roster, easily.
Also something i'd enjoy seeing...

DE - Starks
NT - Wilfork
DE - Deaderick
OLB - Hightower
ILB - Mayo
ILB - Spikes
OLB - CHandler


EDIT:
Who was the last 1st round pick in the BB era to NOT contribute his rookie season? I think the closest argument is Solder because he wasn't starting and was a 6th OL for portions of the season before Vollmer went down. Maroney I guess, but even he was a good contributor his rookie year behind Dillon.

Also you left out Armstead who could fill in where you have Starks or a draft pick.