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AJ's always good for a smart, informative post. Thoughts on the D, people?
 
AJ's always good for a smart, informative post. Thoughts on the D, people?

Really looking forward to seeing what they will do next year. Shouldn't get exposed over the middle half as much as the last couple of years and I think our secondary will actually improve once Meriweather sees some extended playtime. Does anybody know if there are plans to move toward more man coverage in the next couple of years?
 
Really looking forward to seeing what they will do next year. Shouldn't get exposed over the middle half as much as the last couple of years and I think our secondary will actually improve once Meriweather sees some extended playtime. Does anybody know if there are plans to move toward more man coverage in the next couple of years?

BB knows. But there is no way anyone outside of the organization would ever know the plans the team has for anything.

I think the 'over the middle' issue is a combination of scheme and players. There is no doubt that our scheme gives away the middle of the field more than others. You cannot stop everything and oour scheme definitely values prevent the deep ball more than the middle of the field.
That said, the ONLY real criticism anyone could throw at or defense over the last 2 years is their ability to stop teams in 2 minute drills, comeback modes, etc, basically any time the other team has no choice but to throw. While we have actually been good in those situations overall, we have had trouble in them more than we have had trouble in any other phase of the game.
Remember we are talking about a team that is 32-6 in the last 2 years, so anything you can criticize really couldn't have been that bad. The issue is that when winning all of your games is the standard anything that haunts you once or twice is YOUR biggest problem, even though you may be better at it overall than almost any other team.
If you could eliminate this issue, we do not allow the Colts to comeback in 06, and we do not allow the Giants to scopre 2 4th quarter tds in the SB.
Without those 2 poor performances, we are 16-4, then 19-0 with back to back titles. Quite honestly we are 2 Ints that got held onto instead of dropped away from just that, which woud be by far the best 2 year run any team has ever had.
Its kind of like the hottest girl you have ever met, except she has one crooked tooth. She is imperfect but you won't find anyone closer to perfect.
 
Without those 2 poor performances, we are 16-4, then 19-0 with back to back titles. Quite honestly we are 2 Ints that got held onto instead of dropped away from just that, which woud be by far the best 2 year run any team has ever had...

That very thought gnaws at my soul, and will do so for the rest of my life - unless the Pats win 3 of the next 4 SBs.

What BB may have finally realized is that while experience is valuable, those same players with all that experience - Harrison, Vrabel, Bruschi, Seau, Seymour - are 4 years older and 4 years slower than in their '03-'04 peaks. They were too slow (and in the case of Alexander, too incompetent) to defend the middle/seams against the dolts, and to sack ellie when one sack might have ended the jints' hopes.

That probable realization is why I am encouraged by the off-season transactions and by the intent of the draft, though I would have chosen different players after Mayo (and Wheatley, but not until the end of the 3rd round - Reggie Smith would have been a better pick at 62, and even at 94 I might have taken Tyvon Branch instead).

DL - no real changes here. Henry Smith will battle LeKevin Smith for backup NT; an upgrade there would be nice. So would another Jarvis Green at DE to pressure the QB. Is a healthy and older Seymour > an injured but younger Seymour? Probably. He's still not worth the $$, however.

ILB - even after talking about the need for speed , I still want Junior Seau back (or Takeo Spikes). In fact, I'd rather have Junior than Bruschi at this point in their careers. Hobson and Mayo should be the eventual starters, and that is a huge improvement over Bruschi and Seau, who would be excellent backups. And perhaps Gary Guyton will supplant Alexander and Izzo as the 5th ILB/STer. At least, I hope he can.

OLB - the FO ignored Cliff Avril to draft Chicken Legs Crable, who has some big shoes to fill, because whenever he was on the field, Rosie Colvin was our best pass-rusher. At least he'll be an improvement over Butterfingers Woods. I also hope that Big Vincent Redd can be an improvement over Woods. Adalius is now our best pass-rusher, which is why I think he stays at OLB. Vrabel looked too old, too slow, too heavy-legged and too tired in the SB. A possible sign of the (immediate) future? Don't be surprised.

CB - losing Samuel hurts, but there's no way that he's worth all that $$. Had the FO kept Hank the Man Poteat, and drafted Tarell Brown or David Irons last year, the CB situation would not be as grave. As it stands, there are questions but only possible answers. Ellis Hobbs will have no more excuses this season. He should be healthier and will play in a system more conductive to his talents. Fernando Bryant, if healthy, should provide steady, if unspectacular, performances. I would be surprised if both Sanders and Webster make the 53. I'm hoping for the bigger Sanders, but I'm expecting the smaller, injury-prone Webster. Speaking of smaller and injury-prone, the FO should have drafted better CBs than lil' Terry Wheatley and lil' Johnny Wilhite, at least not in the rounds in which they were taken. Spann + Richardson = untalented TC fodder.

S - another year, another lost step for Rodney. He is no longer a starting-caliber S for a SB contender. A backup/situational SS, yes. But I have little confidence that lil' Jimmy Sanders is equal to the task. Perhaps a healthy Tank Williams can be. A healthy Tank > a healthy Mel Mitchell, so at least depth has been improved. Stomper Meriweather is our starting FS, but as of now he might catch the ball better with his feet than with his hands, and that is unacceptable. Weed Willie Andrews is the backup, to be challenged by Ventrone and possibly Lewis Sanders, if he can't cut it at CB.

There are also still some interesting vet FA available, e.g.: Ty Law, who would improve our CB and our S depth (and who is bigger than our SS Jimmy Sanders); CBs Andre Dyson and Terry Cousin; Ss Mike Doss, Kenoy Kennedy, Deke Cooper and Lance Schulters; OLB Rosie Colvin (I would love a return at a reduced rate); ILBs Seau, Spikes, Trotter, Kendrell Bell, Brian Simmons and Rob Morris; DTs Ryan Sims and old friend Ethan Kelley; and DEs Renaldo Wynn and Orpheus Roye.

And let's not forget the positive influence that Dom Capers will have as a Defensive Assistant with actual NFL experience, as opposed to Mr. Peesbody (and Skippy). And let's hope that he brings with him a more aggressive style, for both the front 7 and the back 4. "Bend But Not Break" has broken. So, while there is reason for optimism, there is also room for improvement, and questions to be answered. Just my $.02
 
Inside linebackers, thats the key. If they can keep a rotation going with fresh legs, exploit Brushi's and Suea's (?) strengths, I'll feel good about it. If Mayo gets lots of reps at weakside, I'll feel better. If the middle is solid, they have the talent at OLB (Vrabel and Thomas) and d line to hide scheme or coverages to keep the the offense off balance. IMO, this is the only way to protect a secondary filled with young players and one savy vet. This has to be a good season for Seymour, I can't see how the pats can resign him base on his last two seasons.
 
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Speaking of smaller and injury-prone, the FO should have drafted better CBs than lil' Terry Wheatley and lil' Johnny Wilhite, at least not in the rounds in which they were taken.
Not to suggest that Belichick can't make mistakes but between him, Capers, Pees and the college HC that Belichick knows (Saban, Weis, Meyers, etc), there's a really good chance that we didn't overdraft those guys. Willl they work out ? Who knows. But Belichick has a superstar group of input here.
 
Not to suggest that Belichick can't make mistakes but between him, Capers, Pees and the college HC that Belichick knows (Saban, Weis, Meyers, etc), there's a really good chance that we didn't overdraft those guys. Willl they work out ? Who knows. But Belichick has a superstar group of input here.


I hope you (and the FO) are right, and I'm wrong. But too many of these less-highly regarded players have been overdrafted recently, at the cost of overlooking some more highly-regarded prospects who have become more productive pros.

Playing the draft is in some ways like playing poker: you should try to know what your opponent has, what he wants, and when he wants it. If you want the same thing, then you should take it just before he does, but not a full round (or two) earlier.
 
I hope you (and the FO) are right, and I'm wrong. But too many of these less-highly regarded players have been overdrafted recently, at the cost of overlooking some more highly-regarded prospects who have become more productive pros.

Playing the draft is in some ways like playing poker: you should try to know what your opponent has, what he wants, and when he wants it. If you want the same thing, then you should take it just before he does, but not a full round (or two) earlier.

Who exactly are you talking about?

If you are going to imply that you are more adept at drafting than Belichick and Pioli, I think you're going to have to speak in something a little more specific than generalities.
 
That very thought gnaws at my soul, and will do so for the rest of my life - unless the Pats win 3 of the next 4 SBs.

What BB may have finally realized is that while experience is valuable, those same players with all that experience - Harrison, Vrabel, Bruschi, Seau, Seymour - are 4 years older and 4 years slower than in their '03-'04 peaks. They were too slow (and in the case of Alexander, too incompetent) to defend the middle/seams against the dolts, and to sack ellie when one sack might have ended the jints' hopes.

That probable realization is why I am encouraged by the off-season transactions and by the intent of the draft, though I would have chosen different players after Mayo (and Wheatley, but not until the end of the 3rd round - Reggie Smith would have been a better pick at 62, and even at 94 I might have taken Tyvon Branch instead).

DL - no real changes here. Henry Smith will battle LeKevin Smith for backup NT; an upgrade there would be nice. So would another Jarvis Green at DE to pressure the QB. Is a healthy and older Seymour > an injured but younger Seymour? Probably. He's still not worth the $$, however.

ILB - even after talking about the need for speed , I still want Junior Seau back (or Takeo Spikes). In fact, I'd rather have Junior than Bruschi at this point in their careers. Hobson and Mayo should be the eventual starters, and that is a huge improvement over Bruschi and Seau, who would be excellent backups. And perhaps Gary Guyton will supplant Alexander and Izzo as the 5th ILB/STer. At least, I hope he can.

OLB - the FO ignored Cliff Avril to draft Chicken Legs Crable, who has some big shoes to fill, because whenever he was on the field, Rosie Colvin was our best pass-rusher. At least he'll be an improvement over Butterfingers Woods. I also hope that Big Vincent Redd can be an improvement over Woods. Adalius is now our best pass-rusher, which is why I think he stays at OLB. Vrabel looked too old, too slow, too heavy-legged and too tired in the SB. A possible sign of the (immediate) future? Don't be surprised.

CB - losing Samuel hurts, but there's no way that he's worth all that $$. Had the FO kept Hank the Man Poteat, and drafted Tarell Brown or David Irons last year, the CB situation would not be as grave. As it stands, there are questions but only possible answers. Ellis Hobbs will have no more excuses this season. He should be healthier and will play in a system more conductive to his talents. Fernando Bryant, if healthy, should provide steady, if unspectacular, performances. I would be surprised if both Sanders and Webster make the 53. I'm hoping for the bigger Sanders, but I'm expecting the smaller, injury-prone Webster. Speaking of smaller and injury-prone, the FO should have drafted better CBs than lil' Terry Wheatley and lil' Johnny Wilhite, at least not in the rounds in which they were taken. Spann + Richardson = untalented TC fodder.

S - another year, another lost step for Rodney. He is no longer a starting-caliber S for a SB contender. A backup/situational SS, yes. But I have little confidence that lil' Jimmy Sanders is equal to the task. Perhaps a healthy Tank Williams can be. A healthy Tank > a healthy Mel Mitchell, so at least depth has been improved. Stomper Meriweather is our starting FS, but as of now he might catch the ball better with his feet than with his hands, and that is unacceptable. Weed Willie Andrews is the backup, to be challenged by Ventrone and possibly Lewis Sanders, if he can't cut it at CB.

There are also still some interesting vet FA available, e.g.: Ty Law, who would improve our CB and our S depth (and who is bigger than our SS Jimmy Sanders); CBs Andre Dyson and Terry Cousin; Ss Mike Doss, Kenoy Kennedy, Deke Cooper and Lance Schulters; OLB Rosie Colvin (I would love a return at a reduced rate); ILBs Seau, Spikes, Trotter, Kendrell Bell, Brian Simmons and Rob Morris; DTs Ryan Sims and old friend Ethan Kelley; and DEs Renaldo Wynn and Orpheus Roye.

And let's not forget the positive influence that Dom Capers will have as a Defensive Assistant with actual NFL experience, as opposed to Mr. Peesbody (and Skippy). And let's hope that he brings with him a more aggressive style, for both the front 7 and the back 4. "Bend But Not Break" has broken. So, while there is reason for optimism, there is also room for improvement, and questions to be answered. Just my $.02

I just wanted to bump this thread because it's a great read.
 
I hope you (and the FO) are right, and I'm wrong. But too many of these less-highly regarded players have been overdrafted recently, at the cost of overlooking some more highly-regarded prospects who have become more productive pros.
We've generally done OK at CB with Samuel and Hobbs in the 4th and 3rd rounds. Say what you want about Hobbs but he's a decent CB for a 3rd round pick. The safeties we've drafted have been more iffy although Sanders is OK and Meriweather should be good. I don't doubt Belichick's ability to judge players but I bet he talked to Saban and Meyer about Wilhite.
 
We've generally done OK at CB with Samuel and Hobbs in the 4th and 3rd rounds. Say what you want about Hobbs but he's a decent CB for a 3rd round pick. The safeties we've drafted have been more iffy although Sanders is OK and Meriweather should be good. I don't doubt Belichick's ability to judge players but I bet he talked to Saban and Meyer about Wilhite.

Belichick, Pioli, and Peas scouted Wilhite at Auburn's pro day. They

came to scout Patrick Lee but liked Wilhite better.
 
Belichick, Pioli, and Peas scouted Wilhite at Auburn's pro day. They came to scout Patrick Lee but liked Wilhite better.
Right, they obviously liked him but it doesn't hurt that they have some ties to top HC in the SEC also.
 
Who exactly are you talking about?

If you are going to imply that you are more adept at drafting than Belichick and Pioli, I think you're going to have to speak in something a little more specific than generalities.

How about everybody from last year's draft, for starters?
 
How about everybody from last year's draft, for starters?

Okay, so what players from last year's draft (4th round and below) would you have drafted... and please tell me how they would have fit into New England's schemes.
 
Belichick, Pioli, and Peas scouted Wilhite at Auburn's pro day. They

came to scout Patrick Lee but liked Wilhite better.

Lee was drafted just before Wheatley in the 2nd round, so he was long gone by the Wilhite pick; but do you think that, given the choice btwn. Lee and Wilhite, the FO would have taken Wilhite anyway? Interesting if true.

I understand that, in general, shorter ( < 5'10" ) CBs have better COD skills than taller ( > 6' ) CBs, but sometimes a compromise needs to be reached btwn. COD and other attributes e.g. long arms, leaping ability, straight-line speed, soft hands, durability and physical play. Those skills plus above-average COD were better-displayed by Reggie Smith and Tyvon Branch last season. I hope that Wheatley and Wilhite show more of those same skills this and in future years, too.
 
Okay, so what players from last year's draft (4th round and below) would you have drafted... and please tell me how they would have fit into New England's schemes.


I've posted my thoughts at least a couple of times over the past year, so I'll give the short version:

End of 4th round - either S Josh Gattis or CB Tarell Brown

End of 5th/Top of 6th rounds - two of LT Adam Koets, OL Doug Datish, S John Wendling and CB David Irons

End of 6th/Top of 7th rounds - four of ILB Brandon Siler, TE Ben Patrick, RBs DeShawn Wynn and Ahmad Bradshaw, DL Kareem Brown (if available), Ss Daren Stone and Michael Johnson, DBs Courtney Brown and Anthony Arline, FB Jason Snelling, WR Dallas Baker and WR/RS Chansi Stuckey, P Brandon Fields, G/C Dan Santucci

End of 7th round - one of OLB Justin Rogers (if available), OLmen Corey Hilliard and Clint Oldenburg (if available), RBs Bradshaw, Selvin Young and Darius Walker, CBs Arline and Kenny Scott, DEs Mike DeVito and Xavier Jackson, S Chinedum Ndukwe, WRs Rhema McKnight, Brandon Myles and David Ball, OL Mike Jones, FB Cory Anderson

And BTW, I would have drafted Paul Posluszny or David Harris ahead of Stomper Meriweather. I hope to be proven wrong on that, starting this season.
 
I've posted my thoughts at least a couple of times over the past year, so I'll give the short version:

End of 4th round - either S Josh Gattis or CB Tarell Brown

End of 5th/Top of 6th rounds - two of LT Adam Koets, OL Doug Datish, S John Wendling and CB David Irons

End of 6th/Top of 7th rounds - four of ILB Brandon Siler, TE Ben Patrick, RBs DeShawn Wynn and Ahmad Bradshaw, DL Kareem Brown (if available), Ss Daren Stone and Michael Johnson, DBs Courtney Brown and Anthony Arline, FB Jason Snelling, WR Dallas Baker and WR/RS Chansi Stuckey, P Brandon Fields, G/C Dan Santucci

End of 7th round - one of OLB Justin Rogers (if available), OLmen Corey Hilliard and Clint Oldenburg (if available), RBs Bradshaw, Selvin Young and Darius Walker, CBs Arline and Kenny Scott, DEs Mike DeVito and Xavier Jackson, S Chinedum Ndukwe, WRs Rhema McKnight, Brandon Myles and David Ball, OL Mike Jones, FB Cory Anderson

And BTW, I would have drafted Paul Posluszny or David Harris ahead of Stomper Meriweather. I hope to be proven wrong on that, starting this season.

None of those guys would have made the team. (A few of them tried and didnt--Rogers, hilliard, Oldenburg)
Given that Meriwhether is playing a position where one starter is near retirement and the other was benched and let walk, I'd say safety, while less glamorous was a greater need than LB. After Colvin finished out his time here, we drafted the LB position this year.
 
None of those guys would have made the team. (A few of them tried and didnt--Rogers, hilliard, Oldenburg)
Given that Meriwhether is playing a position where one starter is near retirement and the other was benched and let walk, I'd say safety, while less glamorous was a greater need than LB. After Colvin finished out his time here, we drafted the LB position this year.

None of them? We'll never know, of course, but I feel that there were holes in last year's roster that could have been filled by some of the players in my make-believe draft, esp. by those from the 4th through 6th rounds. I just don't believe that nobody outside of Meriweather could have made last year's 53.
 
None of them? We'll never know, of course, but I feel that there were holes in last year's roster that could have been filled by some of the players in my make-believe draft, esp. by those from the 4th through 6th rounds. I just don't believe that nobody outside of Meriweather could have made last year's 53.

And I dont believe that anyone on that list would have.
Who do you think would have and who would they replace?
 
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