Defense - Our NEEDS are few

[jsull87]

People overlook Brandon Spikes. He was having a solid rookie year. If we get an OLB who can put some pressure on the QB then I would be comfortable in saying we have a more than solid LB corp. It also seems to me that Wilfork is capable of making the scrub DEs around him look pretty good.

That being said, If we add a good DE and OLB in FA or the Draft and Warren and Bodden come back strong we would have, for the first time since 05/06 (maybe 07) a good defense. These are big ifs, but imagine the following lineup on the field healthy and playing to potential

Warren - Wilfork - (Cameron Jordan?)
Cunningham - Mayo - Spikes - (Kerrigan...I can dream)
McCourty - Chung - Meriweather - Bodden

Obviously the () are hypothetical (unlikely hypotheticals haha) but you get the picture. If the defensive unit stays on the field and grows together over the season, I could see it being a surprise top 10 squad

There we go nice and fixed thats how i want the draft to pan out... doesn't that look alot better?

 

[bucky]

Bodden was above average pre injury and has to be labeled as ??? coming back.

Bodden tore a muscle - I think it was a pec. That can't be a career threatening injury. Guys like Warren (hip), Wright (concussion) and Kaczur (back) have to be considered question marks. But Bodden should be 100% by the time camp rolls around.

 

[AQPE]

I agree with the OP, to a point.

IMHO the biggest X Factor for projecting the Pats defense for next year (aside from the CBA negotiation and settlement particulars, of course) is Ty Warren. Ideally he will come back and play to a level that is close to his former peak. Considering his age and his role on their defense, I feel optimistic about that. If he does that will be huge for them, aside from his own playmaking ability, having Warren back and productive ought to open things up for both Mayo and Cunningham.

Regardless of Warren's status, I believe that upgrading at DE is their top off-season priority on defense. I'm thoroughly unimpressed with Brace, and will believe it when I see it for anyone else on their roster. I feel that a sizeable improvement in talent level at the RDE spot will make a huge difference in the defense overall; not least in how it should lead to improvement production of the RILB and ROLB. I'd actually be OK with two DEs in the first four or five picks.

To put it more succintly, they need to replace the huge gaping hole left by the trading of Seymour. Look, I understood why the trade was made, but it has hurt them, so it's time they corrected it.

From there I'm with a lot of the posters here in hoping for a talent upgrade at OLB. I'm as frustrated as many at the inability the Pats have had in adequately replacing McGinest and Vrabel. I think we need to recognize, however, that they were in fact special players; I don't know if I myself truly appreciated that while they were here.

Regarding the DBs, I'm almos certainly in the minority here but I think they are in OK shape now. They may need to think about a future replacement for Merriweather, but I think they have decent quality depth at safety. At corner, I fully expect Bodden to come back and for Butler to improve, meaning one or two spots to fill there. I'd rather see them address needs on the offensive side of the roster (guard, center, and RB) than spend another relatively high pick on a CB.

 

[JackBauer]

First off, this thread is devoted to the defense since you missed the heading.

Secondly, its no surprise that you came running to the aid of Merriweather, Butler and Wilhite.If memory serves me right, you were one of the leading minions for keeping Maroney and Chad Jackson.

The pair trying to be CBs both suck and Merriweather sure has been underwhelming for a 1st round draft pick.

I'm not running to the aid of anyone. And I disagree with your assessment of Meriweather.

I do stand corrected on your need rankings. My bad.

 

[Deus Irae]

First off, this thread is devoted to the defense since you missed the heading.

Secondly, its no surprise that you came running to the aid of Merriweather, Butler and Wilhite.If memory serves me right, you were one of the leading minions for keeping Maroney and Chad Jackson.

The pair trying to be CBs both suck and Merriweather sure has been underwhelming for a 1st round draft pick.

Why would defending Maroney be any kind of a negative? Until this year, Maroney was the team's best running back. When people belittle a player's skill long enough, they'll eventually be right, no matter who the player is. People belittling Brady will be right once he declines, too.

 

[JFK]

Why would defending Maroney be any kind of a negative? Until this year, Maroney was the team's best running back. When people belittle a player's skill long enough, they'll eventually be right, no matter who the player is. People belittling Brady will be right once he declines, too.

He was the best last year and then they kept people under the depth over him?
He was never the best. He just got the most opportunities. Dillon was better than him. Morris was better than him. He was given more chances therefore his yards because he was expected to improve.
Maroney was really never a good #1 RB or even a good enough to share carries on a 2 RB committee.

 

[Deus Irae]

He was the best last year and then they kept people under the depth over him?
He was never the best. He just got the most opportunities. Dillon was better than him. Morris was better than him. He was given more chances therefore his yards because he was expected to improve.
Maroney was really never a good #1 RB or even a good enough to share carries on a 2 RB committee.

You think Bill Belichick kept his better players on the bench? Other than your claim here, and other than his hesitation regarding replacing Bledsoe with Brady, when has Belichick ever behaved in such a fashion?

As for Morris being better than Maroney, I assume that's you joking.

 

[Triumph]

Why would defending Maroney be any kind of a negative? Until this year, Maroney was the team's best running back. When people belittle a player's skill long enough, they'll eventually be right, no matter who the player is. People belittling Brady will be right once he declines, too.

Yeah, Maroney was really good but BB just didnt see it like you do.

 

[JFK]

You think Bill Belichick kept his better players on the bench? Other than your claim here, and other than his hesitation regarding replacing Bledsoe with Brady, when has Belichick ever behaved in such a fashion?

As for Morris being better than Maroney, I assume that's you joking.

Every player is an experiment. Maroney was ahead of the depth chart because of 1st round expectations and age. Morris is a better football player than Maroney.

 

[billdog3484]

Belichick will draft a CB in the 1st 2 rounds this year. Someone good enough to move Bodden to nickel works for me. We're in the big nickel very often anyways.

someone good enough to move bodden to nickel...yah that would be borderline pro bowler in his first season....odds of us getting another mccourty are slim and none. rookie CBs usually struggle

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, Maroney was really good but BB just didnt see it like you do.

Actually, he did. Maroney was the team's RB1 from 2007-2009, with 2009 being at least partially because Taylor was injured. That's how Belichick saw it. That's how I saw it. Neither myself nor the others who defended Maroney ever claimed he was Barry Sanders redux, to my recollection.

 

[Patriot Missile]

someone good enough to move bodden to nickel...yah that would be borderline pro bowler in his first season....odds of us getting another mccourty are slim and none. rookie CBs usually struggle

Why would anyone want to move Bodden to nickel? As of right now he is one of the best #2 CB's in the league. He is a 1 on many teams. It's not like he missed the season with a blown acl or anything. It was a shoulder people. Think about what this secondary could do with a pass rush? I'm not wasting picks if it was up to me. But I am not disagreeing that Belichick is not taking a corner in the first 2 rounds either. Although I wouldn't agree with it personally.

 

[Brarrell]

Why would anyone want to move Bodden to nickel? As of right now he is one of the best #2 CB's in the league. He is a 1 on many teams. It's not like he missed the season with a blown acl or anything. It was a shoulder people. Think about what this secondary could do with a pass rush? I'm not wasting picks if it was up to me. But I am not disagreeing that Belichick is not taking a corner in the first 2 rounds either. Although I wouldn't agree with it personally.

We traded one of the best DL in the league and had nothing to show for it for two years and it has been a costly loss especially when we got to the playoffs it was a mistake just like letting Branch and Givens go in their primes I'm not sure who is to blame for these decisions but it certainly cost us IMO a few more titles. That being said they need to draft a top notch DL that can put some pressure on the qb they also need another olb who can pressure and play in space. They need to resign Mankins they have the money so do it and stop trying to nickel dime great players. Draft a center/guard someone to eventually replace Koppin his best days are behind him and he is to small for our division. They need to draft a young rb in the 3rd or 4th round but someone who is brutal but can big chunks of yards when he hits the hole my only argument with BJG. They have six picks in the first 3 rounds i would parlay that into 4 picks in the first 2 rounds and 2 in the 4th I absolutely would not be trading for picks in 2012 the time is now to go for it with Brady. In FA I would go after a few top notch veterans who are in their 20's once again they have to spend money this year to many people on this site have been drinking the koolaid why do we always have to get a player at a discount why? We are the 3rd richest franchise in the league, they have sold out every game since 1994 I believe, and the tv ratings are off the chart. We have the best qb and coach in football these things don't last so why not capitalize when you can. In other words when there is a player like Julius Peppers out there you go for it, cut with the discount crap. The owner came out in his state of the patriots at the superbowl and kind of threw suttle darts at Brady and BB and rightfully so but on the same hand it also should be said that the owner IMO is trying to run the team as if he is in Buffalo, NY.

 

[alvinnf]

We traded one of the best DL in the league and had nothing to show for it for two years and it has been a costly loss especially when we got to the playoffs it was a mistake just like letting Branch and Givens go in their primes I'm not sure who is to blame for these decisions but it certainly cost us IMO a few more titles. That being said they need to draft a top notch DL that can put some pressure on the qb they also need another olb who can pressure and play in space. They need to resign Mankins they have the money so do it and stop trying to nickel dime great players. Draft a center/guard someone to eventually replace Koppin his best days are behind him and he is to small for our division. They need to draft a young rb in the 3rd or 4th round but someone who is brutal but can big chunks of yards when he hits the hole my only argument with BJG. They have six picks in the first 3 rounds i would parlay that into 4 picks in the first 2 rounds and 2 in the 4th I absolutely would not be trading for picks in 2012 the time is now to go for it with Brady. In FA I would go after a few top notch veterans who are in their 20's once again they have to spend money this year to many people on this site have been drinking the koolaid why do we always have to get a player at a discount why? We are the 3rd richest franchise in the league, they have sold out every game since 1994 I believe, and the tv ratings are off the chart. We have the best qb and coach in football these things don't last so why not capitalize when you can. In other words when there is a player like Julius Peppers out there you go for it, cut with the discount crap. The owner came out in his state of the patriots at the superbowl and kind of threw suttle darts at Brady and BB and rightfully so but on the same hand it also should be said that the owner IMO is trying to run the team as if he is in Buffalo, NY.

Amen........

 

[patsfan-1982]

other then Ty Warren im not sure there is a true 2 gap 3-4 DE on the roster to play BB's base defense, Rob Ninkovich is just not good a nuff to be a starting OLB on a playoff team Jermaine Cunningham was the best edge seting OLB on the roster but 1 sack in 11 starts i just dont think he's the pass rusher the pats need. Leigh Bodden 2009 season IMO was not as good as Kyle Arrington 2010 season

the pats need a Seymour type at DE and a james harrison type at OLB ( easier said then done )

 

[VJCPatriot]

Belichick will draft a CB in the 1st 2 rounds this year. Someone good enough to move Bodden to nickel works for me. We're in the big nickel very often anyways.

Here's an idea. Why not draft a NICKEL corner to play the nickel position on the 3rd day or later. Shocking, I know.

Yeah, Maroney was really good but BB just didnt see it like you do.

Yeah obviously BB was ignorant, he misused Maroney, our blocking scheme sucked for Maroney, and our OL didn't WANT to block for him! God, when will people run out of excuses. The guy was cut by BB, was a bust in Denver, and is now sitting in some jail cell. Can we give it up with the lost causes please.

Actually, he did. Maroney was the team's RB1 from 2007-2009, with 2009 being at least partially because Taylor was injured. That's how Belichick saw it. That's how I saw it. Neither myself nor the others who defended Maroney ever claimed he was Barry Sanders redux, to my recollection.

Who CARES? Leonard Russell was the Pats fricking RB1 for a number of years. That didn't make him any good! In fact he accomplished one more thing than Maroney ever did, actually racking up a single 1,000 yard season. Maroney never GOT IT. Talent in buckets with a 10 cent brain, terrible vision, and dancing issues. BB got tired of his 'tease' routine. That's why he no longer wears the Pats uniform.

 

[moosekill]

We traded one of the best DL in the league and had nothing to show for it for two years and it has been a costly loss especially when we got to the playoffs it was a mistake just like letting Branch and Givens go in their primes I'm not sure who is to blame for these decisions but it certainly cost us IMO a few more titles.

Ok I call BS on this post. The best DL in the game was under contract for 1 year, not 2, letting him go to Oakland brought us a high 1st rounder this year. If we had not traded him we wouldn't have had him last year and we wouldn't have a first rounder this year.

Branch, really, are you upset because you couldn't wear your Branch jersey for 4 years? Seattle vastly overpaid him, and he was hurt a lot for them. He never came close to earning what Seattle paid to steal him from us.

Givens??? I mean do you understand he plaid for like one season, was hurt and never heard from again, after signing a huge contract the Patriots didn't think he was worth. He is now running a frozen yogurt store outside of Boston. I guess if the team wanted frozen yogurt in the huddle he would have been good to keep, but otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about.

Of the three examples you used, Branch and Givens are examples of the Patriots being right, not offering their players huge contracts to stay, contracts which, by every possible measure, the players didn't live up to. With Seymore you can argue that the Pats lost him for 2009 and didn't get anything for him until 2011, that is true, but he wasn't going to be here in 2010 so last season would have looked the same as it did, without that draft pick dangling out there.

It is ok to love your teams players, the problem is the NFL plays with a salary cap. If you over pay certain players, you can't afford to pay others. Say what you like but in the 5 years since Branch and Givens left the Pats have made the playoffs 4 times, the super bowl once and had the best regular season record in the nfl twice. The other year they were 11-5 without Brady. What stupid player moves.

 

[JackBauer]

Leigh Bodden 2009 season IMO was not as good as Kyle Arrington 2010 season

Man, that's some good stuff.

 

[Marqui]

Leigh Bodden 2009 season IMO was not as good as Kyle Arrington 2010 season

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Shelterdog]

How did you come to that conclusion?

It's not even supported by any of the usual culprits behind such statements (six year old combine results, traditional stats, DVOA, pro football focus, madden, or number of highlight plays.)