Curran article on Jets tampering

[BradyManny]

So do you think the Pats should lose a high draft pick for tampering with Brandon Marshall?

??

The Patriots reportedly have expressed interest in a player available for trade according to a RUMOR (it probably wasn't even true to begin with, and like most things in the media, is just speculation that snowballs into "report"). Explain how that is at all comparable to an owner making a statement which is almost literally the definition of tampering?

 

[Rob0729]

No Rob, it couldn't. Mortenson said it was a high ranking source he trusted who was very upset, and low level sources don't have access to video footage the Patriots have turned over to the league, and if they did them the league is even more responsible for mishandling it.

Again, that is just one report. We are talking about several leaks. And I already said it was most likely Kensil.

But that wasn't even the point of my hypothetical. I am just asking when does a leak from the league stop being the league's responsibility. What level of employee leaking does it take since you clearly feel that there is a level of employee that the parent entity stop having responsibility. If we were to HYPOTHETICALLY to find out that say the Jay Glazier report came from a secretary in the league. Would that absolve the league from responsibility?

 

[The Gr8est]

btw the jests continue to put stuff out there that they'll do anything to get Revis all while he is still under contract. Ya I know can't do anything about that because they didn't say it directly. But come on.

But Woody Johnson called Bob Kraft to apologize and make sure his remarks weren't misinterpreted.

The fact that the Rats tampered was an innocent mistake, and their current all out effort to sign Revis at any price isn't related to their earlier comments whatsoever.

 

[Rob0729]

What did Robert Kraft say about Brandon Marshall?

No people want the Jets to be punished for the Mehta report too which is not tampering because every team does it.

The Woody Johnson thing is separate from it it. Is my point.

You really only deal with black and white in arguments don't you?

 

[The Gr8est]

It was the first case that came to mind.

Got another example then?

Take your time, no rush.

 

[Rob0729]

??

The Patriots reportedly have expressed interest in a player available for trade according to a RUMOR (it probably wasn't even true to begin with, and like most things in the media, is just speculation that snowballs into "report"). Explain how that is at all comparable to an owner making a statement which is almost literally the definition of tampering?

I not comparing it to Woody Johnson's statement. I am comparing it the Mehta report.

The Pats have not received permission to talk to Marshall at this point. So they cannot express interest in a player publicly who is under contract even if they are up for trade. So if the Mehta report is tampering so is the Clayton report.

 

[Ivan]

What did the Patriots do with Marshall? Did not hear about that one.

Nothing.

 

[Rob0729]

What did the Patriots do with Marshall? Did not hear about that one.

John Clayton is reporting the Patriots are interested in Bradon Marshall. If the Pats leaked that to Clayton, it is no different than the Jets leaking to Manish Mehta that Woody Johnson really wants Revis at all cost. I am only addressing this aspect of people's argument that this particular report is tampering. Not Johnson's comments.

 

[BradyManny]

I not comparing it to Woody Johnson's statement. I am comparing it the Mehta report.

Sorry, I misunderstood. But I think you may be overestimating how many fans care about a report that team X is linked to player Y. It's ubiquitous in the offseason and there's so much uncertainty it is unlikely to have a tangible effect on negotiations. And most of the time it's not even true. An owner expressly saying he would love to have a player does matter a little more.

 

[Ivan]

I not comparing it to Woody Johnson's statement. I am comparing it the Mehta report.

The Pats have not received permission to talk to Marshall at this point. So they cannot express interest in a player publicly who is under contract even if they are up for trade. So if the Mehta report is tampering so is the Clayton report.

Another terrible example. Clayton is saying he thinks the Patriots would be interested and Mehta is saying the Jets are having high level internal discussions about paying Revis. Rob is just flailing about wildly at this point.

Here is an idea Rob, just admit you were wrong and let it go.

 

[Ivan]

So do you think the Pats should lose a high draft pick for tampering with Brandon Marshall?

So John Clayton saying he thinks the Patriots might want Brandon Marshall = Woody Johnson saying he wants Revis?

 

[Ivan]

I not comparing it to Woody Johnson's statement. I am comparing it the Mehta report.

The Pats have not received permission to talk to Marshall at this point. So they cannot express interest in a player publicly who is under contract even if they are up for trade. So if the Mehta report is tampering so is the Clayton report.

Except not one person has said the Jets should lose a high pick for the Mehta report, everyone is saying it should be for Woody Johnson going on national TV and saying he wants Revis.

 

[Rob0729]

Sorry, I misunderstood. But I think you may be overestimating how many fans care about a report that team X is linked to player Y. It's ubiquitous in the offseason and there's so much uncertainty it is unlikely to have a tangible effect on negotiations. And most of the time it's not even true. An owner expressly saying he would love to have a player does matter a little more.

Again, every team tampers. Revis' agent has been negotiating with other teams for probably a week or longer. Don't kid yourself. It is a free for all at the Combine.

Every year (even before the legal tampering period) there is always a player who is signed within minutes or an hour of the start of free agency. Yet people don't get upset about that. Do people really believe that the team and the player wait until 12:01 and hammer out a long term deal in ten minutes?

 

[Ivan]

The media did that. Not the league. No matter what the league did, it wouldn't have stopped Mark Brunnel crying on the air or he and Jerome Bettis talk about how 2 PSI makes a huge difference about how the ball is thrown. The ESPN smear campaign started long before the league made a single statement on Deflategate.

All based on league office leaks.

 

[BradyManny]

Every year (even before the legal tampering period) there is always a player who is signed within minutes or an hour of the start of free agency. Yet people don't get upset about that. Do people really believe that the team and the player wait until 12:01 and hammer out a long term deal in ten minutes?

Of course not - we all know the status quo. I'm not going to argue that point, you are right. The problem is, Woody Johnson's comments are not even allowed assuming this status quo.

 

[Ivan]

Apparently Rob believe the league bears no responsibility for selectively leaking to make the Patriots look bad. I guess the media could have smeared the Patriots without those leaks

 

[Ivan]

Of course not - we all know the status quo. I'm not going to argue that point, you are right. The problem is, Woody Johnson's comments are not even allowed assuming this status quo.

No one is arguing that, it's a strawman.

 

[Rob0729]

Another terrible example. Clayton is saying he thinks the Patriots would be interested and Mehta is saying the Jets are having high level internal discussions about paying Revis. Rob is just flailing about wildly at this point.

Here is an idea Rob, just admit you were wrong and let it go.

LOL! Flailing in the wind = dealing with someone who clearly doesn't understand anything that isn't black and white

I will admit your total misunderstand of my arguments and your twisting of my words are wrong. There you go. I don't think I am wrong. I think you need to learn how to debate better.

 

[livinginthe past]

Welcome to Devils Advocate.

On todays show Rob0729, in an overwhelming display of literality, will attempt to defend Satan himself.

Over to you Rob....

 

[Gumby]

John Clayton is reporting the Patriots are interested in Bradon Marshall. If the Pats leaked that to Clayton, it is no different than the Jets leaking to Manish Mehta that Woody Johnson really wants Revis at all cost. I am only addressing this aspect of people's argument that this particular report is tampering. Not Johnson's comments.

MAJOR DIFFERENCE:
The owning team has publicly authorized Marshall to SEEK A TRADE. Show me ANY PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT by the Patriots reference Revis?.......................
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waiting....
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Still waiting................
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Oh, that's right; the Patriots still have their player UNDER CONTRACT for 13 MORE MONTHS (yes 13 that can turn into 1 day on the end of the league year; but technically right now he is under contract for 12-13 months.)

You like to keep making comparisons of Revis to players who have already been released, or whose contracts END AT END OF LEAGUE YEAR; but you can NOT EQUIVALIZE those contracts with Revis'.

Granted the 'league investigators' would have to actually trace something back to a JESTER front office source from Mehta to make any charges stick; and not just let it slide as 'media speculation' rather than 'expressed interest'.

but as you already have the smoking gun from the earlier comments; they should have all the rights in the world to aks the Jesters for their e-mail and cell-phone records in relation to that reporter and his newspaper.