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Cunningham vs Dunlap, Revisited

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Charles Barwin, Dec 27, 2010.

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  1. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Rookie

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    So my favorite high risk, high reward prospect from the 2010 draft, Carlos Dunlap, has been an absolute monster for Cincinnatti the past 6 weeks.

    Dunlap, a Florida Gator selected one pick after teammate Cunningham in the second round, has 8 sacks in the past 6 games. I believe Suh has 9 in 15 games.

    Dunlap was the total package physically, just young, immature, and his dedication was questioned.

    Was Cunningham the better pick for the Pats

    Hindsight being 20/20, Cunningham might have still been available late in round 2 or even round 3.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hard to tell, Cincinnatti may have had to rely on Dunlap more than the Pats had to rely on Cunningham.. Cincinnatti may have used him differently.

    Different schemes, different roles etc. difficult to compare.

    Overall Cunningham had a very good season for the Pats.. very satisfied with this pick.

    But somefolks have to find something to complain about..
  3. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's really difficult to compare players in different programs because football doesn't happen in a vaccuum.

    The Bengals played an easier schedule. The Bengals employed a different scheme.

    Adalius played well for Baltimore but didn't fit here.

    Deion looked broken and useless in Seattle but has completely renewed his career here.

    Honestly - if what you say about Dunlap's questionmarks leading into the draft are true then I think they made the right choice. We didn't win superbowls by being an assemblage of talented freaks with questionable dedication.
  4. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Rookie

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    Yeah, we made the safer pick, and I don't think Dunlap would play as well or as consistantly for us this year.

    I just thought it was worth discussing. 8 sacks in 6 games by a rookie is an amazing accomplishment.
  5. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cunningham would have more sacks if he could tackle...
  6. LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks

    LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks Rookie

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    Is Dunlap even an option here? At 285 pounds, he is pretty massive for a 3-4 OLB and he's not someone who would fit as a run stopping, 3-4 DE. Looks like a pure 4-3 DE to me, and a very good one.

    I think you were obviously right about how good the player is but he just doesn't seem to fit a 3-4 defense to me. Too big to be an OLB and too small to be a DE. Could've been quite valuable as a sub rusher here, but I can see why the Patriots passed to get a possible every down OLB in Cunningham instead.
  7. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    He needs to get stronger. You're right. An off-season in Wojcik's program will definitely help this kid.
  8. CheeseMonkeys

    CheeseMonkeys Rookie

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    Cunningham is more of a Patriot type of guy. Dunlap, as good as he's been, isn't. I'll take Cunningham.
  9. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    Didn't cincinnati have another guy do something similar with like eight sacks in five or so games last year? I don't watch them so I couldn't tell you who is better but I personaly have been happy with Cunningham.
  10. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He seems to tackle fine except when its the QB hes trying to tackle
  11. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Antwan Odom had 5 sacks against the packers in week 2 last season. That's over 1/5 of his career sacks, which tells you all you need to know about the packers' OL last year.
  12. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    Considering tackling is a major part of becoming a good defensive player, this could cause a problem for Cunningham. Not for nothing, but who's to say Dunlap couldn't be a star here ? Isn't he pretty much the same exact size of Julius Peppers, whom we supposedly were after in the offseason ? Since we used Cunningham to rush the passer, who's to say we wouldn't have used Dunlap to do the same thing. I'm a Pat's fan through and through, but I'm always amazed by people who justify drafting stars over 3rd round value picks. Like having Clay Matthews and Carlos Dunlop on this defense would not have been better than what we have now. Even if they didn't fit the Pats system as well as the systems they fit, and had half as many sacks, they would have 9 sacks. I always laugh when people think good football players can't succeed in our system.
  13. BB4PRez

    BB4PRez Rookie

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    I think thew guy who "picks the groceries" for the Pats does a pretty good job and I think he knows better than anyone else what he wants and needs to build a winner. That doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes, but I really don't think anyone can be to dissatisfied with last year's draft, including Cunningham who has been very solid for a rookie. For me it still is in BB we trust.
  14. WhiZa

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    Dunlap, Manluga, Micheal Johnson just wouldn't of done the same if they weren't on the Bengals. High risk players seem to thrive there for some reason i.e. Benson, TO, Henry, Pacman
  15. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Rookie

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    I was very high on all 3 of those guys. Not drafting Rey Maualuga cost us the '09 playoff game, imho. We also wouldn't have needed to draft Spikes this year. Is Rey's dwi really that much worse than Spikes' porno and p.e.d. suspension

    Michael Johnson was still there in the 3rd round last year, and has played well. Would be even better as a pass rushing olb.

    Dunlap could be getting after the passer for us for sure, and lining up at end in 4-3 sub packages, which have been used so much.

    Whatever, chemistry means a lot. Would love to hear BB's impression of Dunlap and Johnson though.
  16. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This, exactly. To question the Cunningham pick, I'd have to be fairly low on him, and he's made some good progress this year. I could see his role escalating in year 2 much like Pat Chung's did.
  17. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I made no secret about the fact that I would have preferred Dunlap to Cunningham before, during, and after the draft. Dunlap was the better pass rusher and run stopper of the two at Florida. However, I can't say that I've been displeased with Cunningham's production so far. He's come a long way from where he was at earlier in the season and should have had a few sacks of his own.
  18. brady199

    brady199 Rookie

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    Well BB had some good insight into the Florida program, he must of saw or known something about Dunlap vs. Cunningham.
  19. brady199

    brady199 Rookie

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    I can see it now, Giants sneak in the playoffs, make it to the super bowl, last play of the game, Giants, down by 6. Eli is 20 yards away from winning the game, Cunningham has him in the grasp, or does he? For my own sanity, I won't finish this thought.
  20. Uncle Rico

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    Please. Don't do that again. Ever. :eek:
  21. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am very happy with Cunningham.
  22. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ..:ban?:..
  23. PatsFanStnfrd

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    It is worthwhile mentioning another name that was routinely associated with the Pats # 1 draft pick by many so-called draft experts -- Sergio Kindle.
    How did that turn out?
  24. Kasmir

    Kasmir Rookie

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    They had exactly the same number of career sacks at Florida. In the games I watched -- 2009 only -- Cunningham was much more consistent than Dunlap. Cunningham also got a ton of hurries, he was consistently pressuring. I wasn't surprised at all that Belichick picked Cunningham over both Dunlap and Spikes.

    Cunningham *really* needs to develop more upper body strength in the offseason. Not only has he missed sacks, he's also missed tackles in the running game when he can't wrap, and he's had some strength struggles with blockers as well. Good news is strength can be trained, and he has all the natural gifts that can't be trained.

    If he puts the time in the weight room, I expect him to be much improved next season.
  25. LiveShot

    LiveShot Rookie

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    and Mayo comes in and smashes Eli to the turf while the Mannings all mope in their box. Hey guys why the long faces?
  26. BlueThunder

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    Cunningham is a keeper......I seldom question BB's analysis of a player....has he missed on some, who hasn't...but Cunningham looks like he belongs....

    If he develops like Chung did from year one to two....the Pats Defense will be tougher and faster next year...:rocker:
  27. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's pretty much exactly where I am. I was high on Dunlap (and fwiw VERY low on Kindle, who had every red flag imaginable). I imagine choosing Cunningham instead had a lot to do with the team's draftwide emphasis on leadership, work ethic and consistency.
  28. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Rookie

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    I've read that upper body strength is Dunlap's biggest need going into the offseason also. Perhaps he's struggling against the run also, or being pushed back.

    I wonder what Dunlap would have done if he hadn't missed the first half of the season.

    He's getting more sacks than Orakpo did last year.

    Oh well, I didn't expect the Pats to draft Ty Law this year;)
  29. Snake Eyes

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    Being able to bench press 50lbs more won't help with these issues, I'm not saying that extra strength is bad, in fact I'm all for it, but blocking and tackleing has MUCH more to do with techinque: being able to apply force (including ones weight via gravity) on a vector which the opponent cannot easily resist. Keep in mind I reserve the right to change my definition at a later time.

    Correct technique is why a old man weighing 140lbs can toss a relatively young man weighing a whole lot more.

    YouTube - Kyuzo Mifune Demonstrating Judo
  30. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Rookie

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    It helps when you have freakishly long arms, like Dunlap. Easier to disengage and see the action.

    Dunlap was described as a once every 5 year specimen. Are there any long armed comparisons in the 2011 draft
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