Cunningham vs Dunlap, Revisited

[ausbacker]

I am very happy with Cunningham.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can see it now, Giants sneak in the playoffs, make it to the super bowl, last play of the game, Giants, down by 6. Eli is 20 yards away from winning the game, Cunningham has him in the grasp, or does he? For my own sanity, I won't finish this thought.

..:ban?:..

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

It is worthwhile mentioning another name that was routinely associated with the Pats # 1 draft pick by many so-called draft experts -- Sergio Kindle.
How did that turn out?

 

[Kasmir]

I made no secret about the fact that I would have preferred Dunlap to Cunningham before, during, and after the draft. Dunlap was the better pass rusher and run stopper of the two at Florida. However, I can't say that I've been displeased with Cunningham's production so far. He's come a long way from where he was at earlier in the season and should have had a few sacks of his own.

They had exactly the same number of career sacks at Florida. In the games I watched -- 2009 only -- Cunningham was much more consistent than Dunlap. Cunningham also got a ton of hurries, he was consistently pressuring. I wasn't surprised at all that Belichick picked Cunningham over both Dunlap and Spikes.

Cunningham *really* needs to develop more upper body strength in the offseason. Not only has he missed sacks, he's also missed tackles in the running game when he can't wrap, and he's had some strength struggles with blockers as well. Good news is strength can be trained, and he has all the natural gifts that can't be trained.

If he puts the time in the weight room, I expect him to be much improved next season.

 

[LiveShot]

I can see it now, Giants sneak in the playoffs, make it to the super bowl, last play of the game, Giants, down by 6. Eli is 20 yards away from winning the game, Cunningham has him in the grasp, or does he? For my own sanity, I won't finish this thought.

and Mayo comes in and smashes Eli to the turf while the Mannings all mope in their box. Hey guys why the long faces?

 

[BlueThunder]

Cunningham is a keeper......I seldom question BB's analysis of a player....has he missed on some, who hasn't...but Cunningham looks like he belongs....

If he develops like Chung did from year one to two....the Pats Defense will be tougher and faster next year...:rocker:

 

[patchick]

I made no secret about the fact that I would have preferred Dunlap to Cunningham before, during, and after the draft. Dunlap was the better pass rusher and run stopper of the two at Florida. However, I can't say that I've been displeased with Cunningham's production so far. He's come a long way from where he was at earlier in the season and should have had a few sacks of his own.

That's pretty much exactly where I am. I was high on Dunlap (and fwiw VERY low on Kindle, who had every red flag imaginable). I imagine choosing Cunningham instead had a lot to do with the team's draftwide emphasis on leadership, work ethic and consistency.

 

[Charles Barwin]

They had exactly the same number of career sacks at Florida. In the games I watched -- 2009 only -- Cunningham was much more consistent than Dunlap. Cunningham also got a ton of hurries, he was consistently pressuring. I wasn't surprised at all that Belichick picked Cunningham over both Dunlap and Spikes.

Cunningham *really* needs to develop more upper body strength in the offseason. Not only has he missed sacks, he's also missed tackles in the running game when he can't wrap, and he's had some strength struggles with blockers as well. Good news is strength can be trained, and he has all the natural gifts that can't be trained.

If he puts the time in the weight room, I expect him to be much improved next season.

I've read that upper body strength is Dunlap's biggest need going into the offseason also. Perhaps he's struggling against the run also, or being pushed back.

I wonder what Dunlap would have done if he hadn't missed the first half of the season.

He's getting more sacks than Orakpo did last year.

Oh well, I didn't expect the Pats to draft Ty Law this year

 

[Snake Eyes]

They had exactly the same number of career sacks at Florida. In the games I watched -- 2009 only -- Cunningham was much more consistent than Dunlap. Cunningham also got a ton of hurries, he was consistently pressuring. I wasn't surprised at all that Belichick picked Cunningham over both Dunlap and Spikes.

Cunningham *really* needs to develop more upper body strength in the offseason. Not only has he missed sacks, he's also missed tackles in the running game when he can't wrap, and he's had some strength struggles with blockers as well. Good news is strength can be trained, and he has all the natural gifts that can't be trained.

If he puts the time in the weight room, I expect him to be much improved next season.

Being able to bench press 50lbs more won't help with these issues, I'm not saying that extra strength is bad, in fact I'm all for it, but blocking and tackleing has MUCH more to do with techinque: being able to apply force (including ones weight via gravity) on a vector which the opponent cannot easily resist. Keep in mind I reserve the right to change my definition at a later time.

Correct technique is why a old man weighing 140lbs can toss a relatively young man weighing a whole lot more.

YouTube - Kyuzo Mifune Demonstrating Judo

 

[Charles Barwin]

Being able to bench press 50lbs more won't help with these issues, I'm not saying that extra strength is bad, in fact I'm all for it, but blocking and tackleing has MUCH more to do with techinque: being able to apply force (including ones weight via gravity) on a vector which the opponent cannot easily resist. Keep in mind I reserve the right to change my definition at a later time.

Correct technique is why a old man weighing 140lbs can toss a relatively young man weighing a whole lot more.

YouTube - Kyuzo Mifune Demonstrating Judo

It helps when you have freakishly long arms, like Dunlap. Easier to disengage and see the action.

Dunlap was described as a once every 5 year specimen. Are there any long armed comparisons in the 2011 draft

 

[alvinnf]

Dunlap is playing on a garbage team in garbage time. OLB in NE scheme needs to have one foot in the door and one foot out, discipline. The players really are'nt all that comparible. It would seem they both ended up in the right spot.

 

[Kontradiction]

They had exactly the same number of career sacks at Florida. In the games I watched -- 2009 only -- Cunningham was much more consistent than Dunlap. Cunningham also got a ton of hurries, he was consistently pressuring. I wasn't surprised at all that Belichick picked Cunningham over both Dunlap and Spikes.

Cunningham *really* needs to develop more upper body strength in the offseason. Not only has he missed sacks, he's also missed tackles in the running game when he can't wrap, and he's had some strength struggles with blockers as well. Good news is strength can be trained, and he has all the natural gifts that can't be trained.

If he puts the time in the weight room, I expect him to be much improved next season.

I'm not knocking Cunningham at all. But Dunlap was in the backfield more often than Cunningham was at Florida. He was also more of a disruption against the run. When Dunlap was out for the 2009 SEC Championship, you could see the difference in the Florida defense. McElroy picked them apart and they were running all over the right side of the Florida D-Line. As for the rest of your post, we're both in agreement.

 

[Charles Barwin]

Greg Romeus could be our Dunlap type, and will be there atop round two for sure. Loong arms like Dunlap, 6'6', and under the radar for now after being compared with Quinn in pre-season:

"Scouts wanted to see if Romeus could keep it up
as an upperclassman. And in 2009 he did just that,
totaling 43 tackles, 11.5 tackles-for-loss and 8.0
sacks. Romeus needed to return for his senior
season, but it did not start out well as he hurt his
back and has played in just one game. In the
meantime, Romeus' stock is dropping fast. He has a
very long reach and more than enough size and
strength, so he will improve his stock once he gets
the pads off and does some workouts"

(from fftoolbox.com)

 

[JerseyDevil26]

There really isn't much I can add to this thread, but I, like most Pats fans, couldn't be much happier with drafting Cunningham. I think he's pretty much done a solid job doing what BB has asked of him.

Granted Dunlap has come on real strong the last few weeks, but I believe in the long run that Cunningham will do the job.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

So what if they may have wiffed on the two?

The Pats absolutely killed this draft.

Positives: is decent at setting the edge, doesn't give up on plays.

Negatives: If his initial rush move doesn't work, he can get taken out of a play. Also, he needs to work on his strength to tackle better and develop more rush moves.

Even if this Cunningham doesn't pan out, this draft was outstanding.

And it's scary to think they have 2 picks in each of the 1st 3 rounds in 2011.

 

[Kasmir]

So what if they may have wiffed on the two?

The Pats absolutely killed this draft.

Positives: is decent at setting the edge, doesn't give up on plays.

Negatives: If his initial rush move doesn't work, he can get taken out of a play. Also, he needs to work on his strength to tackle better and develop more rush moves.

Even if this Cunningham doesn't pan out, this draft was outstanding.

And it's scary to think they have 2 picks in each of the 1st 3 rounds in 2011.

Cunningham is already our best OLB, and has made several important plays (QB pressures that led to the Chung intercept in the Miami game and the Sanders pick of Manning, etc) so no way the pick was a whiff.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

Well BB had some good insight into the Florida program, he must of saw or known something about Dunlap vs. Cunningham.

Exactly - Bill had gotten the complete 'Bill of Sale' before the draft due to close relationship with Urban Meyer. Sadly now though - Urban has resigned.

The time we should start second guessing the drafts 'Stop and Shop(er)' - is when he whiffs on a pick. From what we have seen so far on a rookie season , Cunningham was not a whiff.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

From what I've read, Dunlap has mostly been just rushing the passer in sub packages and doesn't have any other responsibilities. He would have been a conversion project here, and I'm not saying he's worse than Cunningham, but Meyer probably felt Cunningham was a better option for our D and told BB as much.

Both could be outstanding players with different types of roles, but I certainly wouldn't want to trade one for the other. I'm happy with who we have.

 

[condon84]

Cunningham has been decent but it's obvious so far Dunlap's been more productive when playing.

 

[SONS_OF_BELICHICK]

You need to look at the body of work ...which include responsibilities....and results. Each system is different. 3-4 vs 4-3. Our 3-4 is more passive so you are not going to see alot of sacks. As BB says...stats are for losers....