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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by rookBoston, Mar 26, 2006.

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  1. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    Posted something similar over on the Main Board, deep on someone else's thread. It's worth re-posting it here for discussion from the true draftniks

    QB - Brady, UFA/rookie, Cassel
    Conventional thinking is to sign a UFA as our #2. But here's the minority report: If you have enough confidence to give the #2 spot to Cassel, then we can save the cap space and take another shot at the draft. Someone like Brett Basanez would be a great Day Two pick.

    Better yet, draft Basanez, take a journeyman and then send Basanez to the IR for seasoning. If Basanez and Cassel both look good in TC, keep the kids and cut the vet.

    RB - Dillon, Faulk, Pass, Evans
    Nothing more to wish for, except youth. This is a solid bunch of smart and proven veterans, but I dont think it's right to call them old. Dillon has three more years in him easily.

    And fact is that good RBs come out of college every year. It seems tempting to pencil Deangelo Williams in as a backup RB-- but that would be a waste. The Jets drafted Lamont Jordan to backup Curtis Martin and he never saw the light of day until he left for Oakland. To me, that's bad draft execution. As long as there are good players who can contribute at another position, an early pick at RB is a luxury we dont need.

    My appetite for RB is only just enough to draft someone like Maurice Drew if he drops to #100, to play ST and compete for a backup role with Evans.

    WR - Branch, UFA, Caldwell, Brown, rookie/UFA, Bethel/Childress

    Any other year, I would have thought WR in the first round would be a good bet. But, well, the pickin's slim... Holmes has some upside to develop into someone like... well, like Ashley Leslie. Chad Jackson is entirely the product of the NFL Combine and that makes me think of... Tony Simmons. Not interested.

    As others have posted, I think Hass is a compelling prospect. And Stovall had one good year in college, after Charlie lit a fire under him... if CW can convince BB the kid will work for it, he might be worth the early 3rd.

    That leaves me looking for trade opportunities for veterans. I'm 100% in the Eric Moulds camp, but will Buffalo actually trade him within the Division? The Javon Walker rumors are interested... a second rounder to bring him to the Pats makes more sense than spending it on someone like Martin Nance or Derek Hagan.

    TE - Graham, Watson, UFA/rookie
    Need a #3 TE, and need to prepare for the possible loss of Graham after next season. Seems like the perfect opportunity to draft a rookie with good upside. Add the the fact that this TE class is stacked deep with talent, and I think the idea of spending a pick at TE in the first round rounds seems very sensible.

    If the draft doesn't work out for some reason, BB has found good TEs off the street; I really liked Jed Weaver and would be happy to have him back on the roster.

    OT - Light, Kaczur, Gorin, UFA/rookie
    The loss of Ashworth undercuts what was a fantastically deep unit last year. (He signed a good sized deal, which should land us a Compensatory pick next year... always looking for a silver lining). Not listed is Daniel Graham who plays an OT emergency support role on a regular basis.

    Spending the 2nd rounder at OT is not out of the question. Darryn Colledge has been my favorite. But signing a journeyman for depth could work just as well. There's a need here, but lots of ways to fill it: Day One, Day Two, UFA... the mind boggles.

    OG - Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Hochstein
    Re-signing Neal takes the pressure off. But, the dark cloud on the horizon is Dan Koppen entering free agency in 2007. With Russ Mruc safely stashed on the shadow roster, whether BB decides to draft a future at OC is anyone's guess. If the right player drops far enough, I think BB will pull the trigger. But it's unlikely that he'll take an elite player like Mangold.

    NT - Wilfork, Wright
    Wright was the good news story of training camp last year, but it's still worth spending a late pick on someone like LeKevin Smith or Steve Fifita.

    Haloti Ngata is the dream pick for any 3-4 defense. He would start Week One, and we'd have to shift Wilfork to DE. But, luckily, that could never happen.

    DE - Seymour, Warren, Green, Hill, Klecko
    Solid young group. But Seymour will need a big contract, Hill has been slow to develop and Klecko still hasn't found a long term role for himself on the team. Still, as a group, there is really nothing to worry about for 2006. If an opportunity presents itself, where an athletic, hard working 300#er like Claude Wroten comes available in the draft, or free agency, BB may make the investment and bump either Hill or Klecko off the depth chart.

    OLB - Vrabel, Colvin, Banta-Cain, rookie/UFA
    Bummer losing McGinest to the Browns. How to make lemonade from the lemons? Well, let's take the opportunity to move Vrabel back to the edge, where he's truly disruptive. Even with that, we still have depth issues at OLB, where Chad Brown saw time last year, too. Vrabel and Colvin are both young, solid veterans, but Banta-Cain has limited long term upside.

    After spending a long while on the Manny Lawson bandwagon, I'm back on the Bobby Carpenter bandwagon. To start, Mike Vrabel is the perfect guy to teach the kid how to play the position, and has been using the Ohio State connection to coach the kid up. Chemistry is the key to teamwork. And unlike Lawson who was a pure pass rusher in college, Carpenter played a LB role similar to what BB will want from him. Plus, the tie-breaker: Carpenter is at least 10#s bigger.

    ILB - Bruschi, Beisel, Claridge, Izzo, Davis, rookie
    Some question whether Beisel/Claridge can combine to be a credible #2 ILB. There's always the option to shift Vrabel back to ILB, but I'm encouraged by Chad Brown's positive departing comments, to paraphrase: "watch out for that Claridge kid".

    But, I think this is a great year for LBs, and with Matt Chatham departing for the J E T S, we can draft a prospect. Productive tough guy football players like Anthony Schlegel and Tim McGarigle will be available in the 3rd round, and we'd be crazy to pass up the chance.

    S - Harrison, Wilson, Hawkins, Sanders, Scott
    Solid unit, with some injury questions. BB likes spending mid and late rounders on S prospects, so that's always an option. But while I was interested in Darnell Bing and Ko Simpson at the end of the season, with Hawkins back it's really not that important to me anymore. A late pick on someone like Matt Ware will work well enough to provide some competition and depth.

    CB - Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Scott
    There's room in the secondary for an elite rookie, and I've been a strong Richard Marshall supporter for a long while and that hasn't changed. Donte Whitner, too. It would mean cutting one of the two Scotts, but that's okay with me. The upside is tremendous.

    K - UFA, P - Miller, LS - Paxton
    Just dont see Belichick trusting the K duties to a rookie.


    To tie this in with my Dream Draft class:

    1(21) - OLB Bobby Carpenter, OSU
    Our top need, gives us positional flexibility with Vrabel, and projects as a starter.

    2(20) - OT Daryn Colledge, Boise
    Another ranch hand on our offensive line. Agility, strength and versatility.

    3(11) - WR Mike Hass, Oregon St
    Smart. Blocks downfield. Good hands. Good routes. Doesn't have great speed, but does all the small things.

    3(22) - ILB Tim McGarigle, Northwestern
    Incredibly productive in college. Smart: "Another coach on the field". Great leader. Good size, a run stuffer with great instincts.

    4 (9) - TE Cooper Wallace, Auburn
    Well rounded, strong TE with good hands and work ethic. A solid contributor, and just what you'd want in the 4th.

    4(21) - OC Chris Chester, Oklahoma
    Raw, but very smart and takes coaching. Hard working former TE. Athletic.

    5 (3) - DE Johnny Jolly, Texas A&M
    Strong, versatile college DT who projects at 3-4 DE. Top leadership, experience and work ethic.

    6(22) - QB Brett Basanez, Northwestern
    Smart and competitive. Mobile passer with outstanding intangibles. Led an overachieving Northwestern offense.

    6(33) - S Calvin Lowry, Penn St (projected compensatory)
    Instinctive player with great closing speed. Great leader on surprising PSU defense.

    6(34) - WR Ed Hinkel, Iowa (projected compensatory)
    One of my favorite college players. A tough guy with a gutty football attitude. Hard working and top intangibles.

    7(21) - NT Steve Fifita, Utah
    Incredible strong 325# NT prospect. True run stuffer; a bit short.
    A lot of Big-10 players (Hinkel, Lowry, McGarigle, Basanez, Carpenter). Not completely coincidental because I'm a fan-- I know Big-10 players better.


    What's missing?
    Still need a K. And you have to feel good at the idea of Caldwell, Brown, Hass and Childress competing for the #2 WR spot. Honestly, I'd be okay giving up our 2nd rounder for either Eric Moulds or Javon Walker and taking an OT in the 3rd.
  2. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    I'd feel very good about bringing in Walker for a 2nd, though Moulds seems a little old to mefor such an investment. I'm also in support of signing Josh Brown to an offer sheet. At this stage of their careers, I'd take Brown over Vinateiri, and would sleep easy giving Brown the 5 money.

    As for your draft group, there are some fine players in there, though I'm all for bringing in a day 1 CB. I'm almost sure that one of our round 2 or 3 picks will be traded for a vet. Personally, I think we'll try to move down from #21 and pick up an additional 3rd or 4th rounder.
  3. Feep_FLA

    Feep_FLA Rookie

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    Nice post, rookBoston....... I like your thinking and deductions. Makes a lot of sense and seems very, very plausible. I, for one, am drooling at the prospect of Bobby Carpenter. He's my guy. I also agree with leaving the RB position alone this year. Allthough Deangelo Williams looks great to me. :rocker:
  4. patpatriot

    patpatriot Banned

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    Not so good...yet so good!

    Oh ho ho ho..you know you remind me of how I think about myself...I have 3 more good years...yeah right. Evidence to support this claim? Missing of course. We all hate to face the truth.

    This follows from your above argument. If you are wrong about that one, you are *way* wrong about this one. And we will be so screwed!

    If we can't get Williams, Maroney or White in Round 1 this makes sense. I like Drew. He''ll help.

    I agree about the risk of drafting WR in the 1st unless they are can't miss prospects like Roy Willia...I mean Mike Willia... Lordy. Just too scary.


    If Hagan had not stunk it up at the Senior Bowl I'd be on board with you here. I think we must take one of Stovall, Hass and yeah Hagen but in that order.



    Good analysis. Unless another freak TE drops to us we would be better to draft a project like Schleffler. I mean who is going to beat out Weaver actually?

    The Tackle draft is almost 20 deep this year. If you could get a guy in the second who would challenge Light or Kazur, would you do it? Why not? I think we should try to get a low rounder who we can sneak onto the PS. Cook of NM is interesting cause he can play center. Whimper is mad athletic. I have total man-love for Whitworth (tho not a low rounder). We still have Britt on the PS who could surprise. He is probably better than anyone we could get beyond the 3rd round but the severity of his leg injury makes him a permanent risk IMO.

    bad year to need a C cause there is like 2 maybe 3 out there unless you think lightning will strike twice with the BC kid. Again Cook seems intruiging tho I'd be tempted to go for David in the second and Chester in the third cause they both can play C/G

    In agreement. Fifita then 3 or 4 other guys : Stanley etc who can help out.


    Dude dude dude. Bump a number 2 off the depth chart? Not unless he's schtupping BB's daughter. As for 3-way Klecko, he's an interior pass rushing specialist and a fairly useful ST'er. That's it I'm afraid. Good kid tho.

    Yeah I'm with you. Lawson is a situational pass rusher/ ST'er for now. Carpenter could probably step in and actually play right now (tho not at Vrabel's level but in time....who knows?)

    Gotta go for some kids who may be able to help in an emergency and can play teams until that chance comes. Think Dobbins, the Bama kid, and Schlegel in that order. Too bad about Kai Parham!

    Think Blue or Slay. Guys that can be impact teams players and could develop Rodney-fashion.

    You nailed this one. I'd add Allen as well as he was Cromartie''s biggest competitor until he blew out his knee and we can get him in the second with a little manuvering.



    Carpenter yes. Colledge is too high unless we thin he can beat out one of our starters.


    Hass and Chester are fine. The other picks are weird.
  5. harveyw

    harveyw Rookie

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    WR - Branch, UFA, Caldwell, Brown, rookie/UFA, Bethel/Childress

    Any other year, I would have thought WR in the first round would be a good bet. But, well, the pickin's slim... Holmes has some upside to develop into someone like... well, like Ashley Leslie. Chad Jackson is entirely the product of the NFL Combine and that makes me think of... Tony Simmons. Not interested.

    ABSOLUTE CHALLENGE! That point about Jackson is completely false. Jackson was seen as a fringe first rounder before the combine. People questioned his speed. Those questions were resoundingly answered. The kid caught 80+ balls as a Junior, he is legit. I would be willing to bet he dispells all of the terrible UF WR history (ala Caldwell, Taylor, Gaffney). He was a slow started but really blossomed last year. Personally, I think if he went back for a senior year he would be a top 10 pick next year (similar to Roy Williams who returned for his senior year).

    Rook you're normally very accurate with your statements, but I don't see where you got this idea.
  6. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    i love mike hass

    but in the third rd we could prob get greg jennings there, who i personally have ahead of hass
  7. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    Heres my depth

    QB: Brady, Casell, UFA
    Competition: Whos #2 is the competition. Matt is not a lock to be the #2 QB yet

    RB: Dillon, Draft, Faulk
    Competition: Whoever we draft against Dillon. If Dillon stays as #2, whos the main backup is the competition.

    FB: Pass, Evans
    Competition: Evans has size advantage by 3 inches and 33 pounds. Pass seems better as a tailback than a fullback.

    TE: Watson, Graham, UFA
    Competition: Who stays on field more..Graham whos a better blocker or the younger more exciting to watch upcoming star Ben Watson?

    WR: Branch, Pickup, Caldwell, Brown, Childress, Johnson
    Competition: Whos #2? Whoever we bring in, we can expect competition from Reche. Brown will compete for #3 aswell. Childress gets a shot to prove himself


    DE: Seymour, Warren, Green, Hill
    No competition

    DT: Wilfork, Pickup, Klecko/Wright/Thomas
    Competiton: Whos going to be the #2 to backup Wilfork or be used as in 4-3 situation formation? Klecko is undersized and I think he should be gone..Wright and Thomas will compete there with anyone we bring in.

    OLB: Colvin, Pickup, Banta Cain, Pickup, Claridge
    Competition: Opposite side of Colvin. Who will be a starter? Banta Cain and whoever we pick up in place of Chatham aswell as a healthy Rytan Claridge will compete for primary backup

    MLB: Bruschi, Colvin, Beisel
    No competition

    CB: Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Scott, Poteat and possible pickup anywhere on here
    Competition: Whoever we bring in will compete for #1 if its an early draft pick or a good vet but Samuel likely has it. Competition for #2 is going to be fun to watch..last years hit Hobbs or 2 years ago hit Gay?

    FS: Wilson, Sanders, Scott
    Competition: Scott and Sanders will compete for primary backup spot

    SS: Harrison, Hawkins, Sanders, Ventrone, pickup
    Competition: If Rodney isnt ready, Hawkins will compete with anyone we bring in aswell as Sanders for the starting spot and primary backup.
  8. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    Sweet post. Excellent analysis of team needs. I love your first three picks:

    Carpenter seems capable (physically/talent wise) of being either an ILB/OLB in BB's system. I keep seeing posts that question his intellegence and lack of upside - whatever that means. Assuming he's got the brains, I concur that he should be our pick at No. 21. If BB/Pioli think he's not their kind of player, I'm hoping their are some teams (e.g. the Giants) that would be willing to trade up to 21 to get him. Lawson makes me a little nervous. He's got insane measurables, but football talent-wise, he hasn't proven that he's anything more than a pass rushing specialist. Does his upside warrant a No. 21 pick? If Greenway and Carpenter are off the board at 21, maybe he is the BPA.

    Colledge strikes me as a perfect fit for the Patriots system. He would be the perfect player to replace Ashworth as an OT/OG swingman and would give the Pats insane depth at LT. Based on the resigning of Neal and the development of Kazcur last season, I think that the Pats will look to address positions of greater need in Round 2 when Colledge is likely to come off the board - but I still would love to see the Pat's draft him. He may be the BPA in round 2 for the Pats system.

    Hass - I want this guy. Will he last into round 3 (pick no. 75) given the lack of depth at WR in the draft? My guess is no. I think Martin Nance would be a good consolation prize if Hass goes off the board early.

    I'm trying to come up with my own Patriot's mock, but I keep getting bogged down in all the possible permutations. It's really is hard to grade the talent between the middle of the round 1 to round 3. How the chips fall will largely depend on team needs. Here some of my random thoughts...

    I like CB Richard Marshall a lot. He may not warrant pick No. 21, but he's a must pick if he's on the board at No. 52. I'm guessing he's a late first, early second rounder. If the Pats aren't in love with Carpenter/Greenway or Lawson at 21, a trade down to the late first round may be in order. Or if they love one of those guys at 21, they can have they're cake and eat it too by trading picks 52 and one of their 3rd rounders to get their OLB of choice and Marshall.

    Given the depth at OLB, The Pats may wait for a value pick Mark Anderson/Darryl Tapp/Stanley McGlover in round 3.

    Anyway here are some plausible scenarios for the first day that I'd be be happy with:

    1. Carpenter/Lawson/Greenway
    2. Marshall
    2a. Hass/Nance

    1. Marshall
    2. Hass/Nance
    3a. Anderson/Tapp/McGlover
  9. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Rook -
    Nice post. I do something like that also. However, I was going to wait until the week of the draft to post my next edition.

    You left out some people whom the Pats have signed. Don't know if you did this purposely or not.

    Also, I have to disagree with 2 picks.

    1) Johnny Jolley - Why? Plain and simple the Pats are 4 deep at DE. They're aren't going to draft someone unless they feel that the 2nd round pick on Hill was a waste. Which I don't believe they do.

    2) Steve Fifita - He is shorter than Klecko is.

    I like the pick of Colledge. My only concern is where to play him. Or are you hedging your bets against Neal staying the starter?
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It will be interesting to see the various value boards in three weeks or so. Isn't the best value available to us on Day One likely to be at OT, TE, LB and perhaps even at DL?

    Should we be reaching for RB's, CB's and WR's as many suggest? With regard to rook, he is spot on regarding positions, although I would draft a TE where he drafted a wr and drafted a DE a round or two earlier.

    BTW, what do you guys think of Wesley Britt, our OT prospect? If he is recovered from his injury, what round would he be drafted this year?
    ----------------------------------------------

    We have three #6's and a 7. I would think a kicker, quarterback and a returner would have the best chance of making the team or practice squad. Oh yeah, and a backup NT since the competition for TWO spots is Klecko, Wright and Thomas.
  11. Box_O_Rocks

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    1010101010
  12. Box_O_Rocks

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    Jolly - because he could push Hill, Wright, Klecko, and Thomas, would be Practice Squad eligible to build depth against Seymour's potential departure, and would be good value to the Pats from the 2nd round on.
  13. Box_O_Rocks

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    Britt - I'm not going to guess where he would fall in this draft. Bottom line, he was re-signed and unlike Krug, he is still on the roster, so Dante hasn't written him off yet.
  14. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you both on most points, but I'm less content with the CB lineup. That's four perfectly good NFL cornerbacks, but no real standout. I'd put a guy with the potential to be a genuine #1 corner as a high draft priority -- definitely above RB in round 2, for instance.

    On kickers...has BB kept kickers on the PS before? It seems like an unlikely position to "cultivate" that way, since other teams inevitably need kickers mid-season and don't have to worry much about the player learning their scheme--the exact opposite of the offensive linemen who make the PS every year.
  15. Box_O_Rocks

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    I would rate CB over RB by a substantial margin, but I also think CB depth is much deeper in this draft then RB. I currently consider OT, OLB, ILB, WR, TE, and CB as my first day shopping priorities - with OT and WR the two with the poorest depth requiring you take a hard look at them in the first two rounds, OLB/ILB and WR seem to be the more critical of draft targets, meaning CB and TE become my BPA picks after my draft targets are considered for value.
    - So my round one targets become OT, OLB, CB, TE; assuming WR/ILB have low value in round one.
    - My round two targets are OT, WR, OLB, ILB, CB, TE depending on round 1's selection.
    - My round three targets are WR, OLB, ILB, CB, TE, depending on previous selections.

    Given the way I'm breaking things down today, CB falls to round 4 - which means your boy Rolando and his value group.

    I can't remember which year he was kept around, but AV's protege in Cleveland was on the roster/PSquad for a season while AV was playing through health problems. A developmental kicker on the PSquad is a strong consideration when you look at Edinger's recent years, and the relative strength of the rest of the available PK field. I'd think a developmental PK would have an incentive to stay with the team and isn't that much more vulnerable to poaching then any other PSquad player.
  16. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 Rookie

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    Great post Rook.

    I'm on board with Carpenter. Though, I'd like a WR though in the 2nd, and a OT in the 3rd (I love your pick), and a CB in the 3rd. RB, C, TE, another LB, QB, another WR and a K in the 2nd day of the draft.

    I think BB is going make this team younger by have 9, maybe all 11 (including the 2 6th round comp. picks) make the team.

    And watch out for Claridge and Caldwell this year. Two young guys that could be real suprises.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006
  17. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    Tim Dwight's now gone. Knowing BB and his emphasis on ST, he'll add a quality punt returner. Chances are, we'll draft one from the WR/RB/DB positions. From your picks, I see Lowry and Hinkel as the only ones with PR experience. Do you think either one could adequately replace Dwight...or would you consider going after one of the more highly rated returners like Drew and others? I would...
  18. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    This is a great point. And again, even if Hinkel and Lowry may have what it takes to be the PR, BB will not take that for granted. He never entrusts a starting role to a rookie unless he's absolutely convinced that the player has the position all sown up. That would not be the case with either of those rooks.

    But, there are fall backs on the roster, already. Troy and Kevin and Hobbs will all get a look. Add Hinkel and Lowry and I think we're looking okay.

    But the idea of drafting Drew specifically to be a PR, and then to compete for a backup RB role... that is TOTALLY Belichick, and very plausible.
  19. Box_O_Rocks

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    WRs Willie Reid of Florida State, Steve Breaston of Michigan, Brandon Williams of Wisconsin, and Adam Jennings of Fresno State all have return skills to work with if Drew doesn't fall to us.
  20. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan On the Roster

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