Corey Simon out For Year

AzPatsFan · Oct 7, 2006

pats1 said:
I agree here.

It's a myth that the Colts have had major personnel loses over the past two seasons.

2004 Starters (Starts):

QB - Manning (16)
RB - James (16)
WR - Harrison (16)
WR - Wayne (16)
TE - Pollard (13)
TE - Clark (13)
LT - Glenn (16)
LG - DeMulling (11)
C - Saturday (14)
RG - Scott (9)
RT - Diem (16)

(Peko had 8 starts)

DE - Freeney (16)
DT - Reagor (16)
DT - J. Williams (15)
DE - Brock (16)

(Mathis had 1 start, Tripplett had ZERO)

SLB - Thornton (15)
MLB - Morris (14)
WLB - June (16)

(Brackett had 1 start, Nelson had 1)

CB - Harper (14)
CB - David (11)
FS - Bashir (13)
SS - Doss (9)

(Sanders had 4 starts, Bird had 4, Strickland had 4, Jefferson had 3)

K - Vanderjagt (N/A)
P - H. Smith (N/A)
LS - Snow (N/A)

2004/5 Offseason Losses:

TE - Pollard to DET (16 starts in 2005)
LG - DeMulling to DET (5 starts in 2005)
FS - Bashir to CAR (0 starts in 2005)

(Peko to FA, Bird to FA, Strickland to PHI (0 starts), Nelson to BAL (0 starts)

2005 Starters (Starts):

QB - Manning (16)
RB - James (15)
WR - Harrison (15)
WR - Wayne (16)
TE - Clark (14)
TE - Fletcher (12)
LT - Glenn (16)
LG - Lilja (16)
C - Saturday (16)
RG - Scott (16)
RT - Diem (14)

DE - Freeney (13)
DT - Reagor (12)
DT - Simon (13)
DE - Brock (16)

(Mathis had 0 starts, Tripplett had 4)

SLB - Thornton (16)
MLB - Brackett (16)
WLB - June (12)

(Morris had 0, Gardner had 3)

CB - Harper (14)
CB - David (16)
FS - Sanders (14)
SS - Doss (15)

(Jackson had 1, Sapp had 2, Jefferson had 2)

K - Vanderjagt (N/A)
P - H. Smith (N/A)
LS - Snow (N/A)

2005/6 Offseason Losses:

RB James to ARZ
SLB Thornton to TEN
K Vanderjagt to DAL

(Tripplett to BUF, Sapp to BAL, Jefferson to FA)

................

Observations:

--The only Colts LB lost was Thornton. At MLB, Brackett simply leapfrogged Morris, but the duo has been Indy's MLBs since 2003.

--The Colts have only lost Bashir in their secondary, but have drafted 6 DBs in the past 2 years.

--The Colts' overall depth has dwindled slightly.

--The Colts drafted Keiaho in 2006 and Hagler in 2005 to replace Thornton

--The Colts drafted Gandy in 2005 to replace DeMulling

--The Colts drafted Addai in 2006 to replace James

--The Colts signed Vinatieri in 2006 to replace Vanderjagt

The offenive lineman I was referring to left after the 2003 season it was 7 year vet starter at G/T Adam Meadows. MLB Rob Morris was let go in FA, signed with Jax(?), was let go, and then resigned later with the Colts.

brady2brown · Oct 7, 2006

Pats726 said:
Interesteding..how little flack they are getting for this..if it was NE, they'd be tons of things said about the "cheap Patriots"...seems like some teams can do things like this..and no one says anything..

Miguel said:
If the Colts are correct that Simon's injury is a NFI, I seriously doubt that any NFL executive will disagree with their move as no one wants to be legally obligated to pay a player who is on NFI.

I don't disagree with your reasoning, Miguel (though I still think is a poor move on the part of the Colts), but Pats726 wasn't talking about whether or not it would hold up, he said that if the Pats had done this, there would be "Patriots are cheap" hysteria all over the internet and TV. People who are saying nothing about the cheapness of the action would be the very ones screaming the loudest if it were the Pats rather than the Colts.

And I think he (Pats726) is right.

Miguel · Oct 7, 2006

AzPatsFan said:
The offenive lineman I was referring to left after the 2003 season it was 7 year vet starter at G/T Adam Meadows. MLB Rob Morris was let go in FA, signed with Jax(?), was let go, and then resigned later with the Colts.

In 2003 Meadows played in 12 games (5 starts) with Indianapolis. He started three games at right tackle and two at right guard. He did not play in four games during the regular season and dressed, but did not play in three playoff contests. Why do you consider him a starter over the person who did start at right guard for the Colts in the 2003 playoffs??

Rob Morris has always been a Colt. He signed an one-year deal with them in May, 2005 and another one-year deal in April, 2006. I do not know how you can count him as a FA loss when he has never played a down for another team.

5 Rings for Brady!! · Oct 7, 2006

workhorse said:
I don't think New England is looking too rosey after Branch. But I think that nearly everyone involved has come to accept it's a business first now.

You clearly don't have a clue about the Branch situation. Only a truly clueless person could possibly blame anybody but Branch for what he and his agent did.

Totally clueless.

Not even worth explaining the situation to you because you are so far away from reality on this issue.

Go back to your whining loser team.

DaBruinz · Oct 7, 2006

workhorse said:
I'm talking about them telling him to go find a trade and he found two and then the Pats said nope to the deals and wanted two first round picks for him after telling him to go find a deal. All I was pointing out is that it got really ugly for both sides.

In other words, you still don't know what you are talking about. The Patriots established what would be needed to complete a deal PRIOR to allowing Branch to go find teams who would be willing to pay Branch what he wanted. You also seemed to have missed out on the tampering charges that were brought against the Jets since word out has it that the Jets really didn't want to sign and trade for Branch and that is why they offered ONLY a 2nd rounder and refused to offer what the Patriots were looking for.

Again, you don't have the whole story or are intentionally ignoring facets because they don't support your theory. Either way, we Pats fans are VERY familiar with the story and you are looking very foolish right now.

Miguel · Oct 7, 2006

WV-Colt said:
my information says that the cap will not be affected.

is that not correct?

I am giving my best guess. I am at a loss to explain if the Colts are not paying Simon his salary that his salary would still count against the cap. Almost every report on the Steve Foley shooting said that by not paying Foley that the Chargers saved room on the cap. I do not know why it would not be same for Simon.

AzPatsFan · Oct 7, 2006

Miquel,

Meadows was the long time starter and then got hurt. T Peko was fill-in who played that year in an emergency and then not again, as far as I know. He lost his job to a rookie G who wasn't a high pick which is not common. (But the so did Gorin to O'C).

But you were correct in that Meadows left between the 2003 -2004 off season and wasn't with the club in 2004 so by the criteria that you questioned, Meadows wasn't in the "last two years" but I think he counts or at least he was the guy I had in mind.

MoLewisrocks · Oct 7, 2006

WV-Colt said:
my information says that the cap will not be affected.

is that not correct?

Your information is likely coming from Irsay's quote, and since it's his team he should know. As he explained it the cap remains unchanged but they simply do not have to pay out the cash because of the NFI designation and they free up a roster spot.

I assume that is because as a vested veteran he was guaranteed his salary (and therefore it went on the cap) when he was on the roster in week 1. He was on the roster because he could not be PUP'ed because he practiced, he was not IR'd because they expected him back by week 1 or shortly thereafter. His condition at that juncture was not related to a NFI but related to his arthroscopy done as a result of injuring his knee in TC. His NFI may have arisen out of it (infection can cause it as well) or had no relation to it (as the Colts are determined to contend) but that NFI was not even tentatively diagnosed until just a week or so ago apparently.

I doubt they can effectively backdate that diagnosis which they would need to do to get out from under him cap wise. If a guy on PUP, with a football injury he was expected to get back from before week 10, slipped on the soap in his home shower and broke a bone or two in week 6, a team could make a case that he was now not available due to a NFI and therefore they should not have to pay the balance of his salary. I think that is the case the Colts are hoping to make, and as an aside they are hoping to reach a settlement with Simon that ends the relationship and gets them some bonus and therefore future cap relief.

So the only difference in designating him IR or NFI at this point is cash outlay. They do not have to "pay" players who are on NFI. Cap aside Irsay can use the $2M cash savings down the road since he has spent a bundle on bonus money in 2006 (well over $30M I believe), and has Freeney due for FA and another $9M roster bonus due for Peyton in 2007. He has always struggled with cash outlay as well as cap because he is not independently wealthy and the Colts are at the lower end of the revenue spectrum. Some of what he spent this year came from a windfall closeout rebate on the RCA Dome lease terms he got as part of the deal to implode it in favor of the new taxpayer funded Lubridome.

MoLewisrocks · Oct 7, 2006

Miguel said:
I am giving my best guess. I am at a loss to explain if the Colts are not paying Simon his salary that his salary would still count against the cap. Almost every report on the Steve Foley shooting said that by not paying Foley that the Chargers saved room on the cap. I do not know why it would not be same for Simon.

I would guess it was because they were paying Simon as a vested veteran on the roster since week 1 while Foley was shot a week before the season opener.

Miguel · Oct 7, 2006

MoLewisrocks said:
I would guess it was because they were paying Simon as a vested veteran on the roster since week 1 while Foley was shot a week before the season opener.

That's probably it. Thanks.

workhorse · Oct 7, 2006

DaBruinz said:
In other words, you still don't know what you are talking about. The Patriots established what would be needed to complete a deal PRIOR to allowing Branch to go find teams who would be willing to pay Branch what he wanted. You also seemed to have missed out on the tampering charges that were brought against the Jets since word out has it that the Jets really didn't want to sign and trade for Branch and that is why they offered ONLY a 2nd rounder and refused to offer what the Patriots were looking for.

Again, you don't have the whole story or are intentionally ignoring facets because they don't support your theory. Either way, we Pats fans are VERY familiar with the story and you are looking very foolish right now.

I wasn't trying to get into all the particulars. I was was just talking about how ugly it got played out (in the media), not really the end result. When I originally brought it up, it was in reference to how it would effect attracting free agents. It was just that everything got really messy and an outsider looking in might have them impact them when considering signing if the Simon issue would effect FAs looking at the Colts. BTW, just for the record, I agree with the Pats' stance on it. I really find it crappy when players don't want to honor the contract they signed. The team can go and ask the player for money back when they under perform on a huge deal. I know the Pats have a way of handling things and Branch's agent made the situation worse, but it looked really bad from the outside. That was the point I was trying to make. It was late and didn't feel like typing it all out, that probably caused the confusion.

workhorse · Oct 7, 2006

Miguel said:
I am giving my best guess. I am at a loss to explain if the Colts are not paying Simon his salary that his salary would still count against the cap. Almost every report on the Steve Foley shooting said that by not paying Foley that the Chargers saved room on the cap. I do not know why it would not be same for Simon.

Myabe this will help...Irsay comments.

"Simon was placed on the NFL's non-football illness/injury list Thursday, which does not require the team to pay him. He has received four game checks worth a total of about $600,000 of the $2.5 million he would have earned this season, Irsay said."

It looks like they will pay him a pro-prated amount for the games he missed before being placed on the list. So I gues you can add that figure to the cap hit for the portion of hi bonus that counts against this year. BTW Miguel, you are an amazing resource of knowledge and fact finding. You should figure out a way to get paid for it, if you don't already. Thanks for the info.

workhorse · Oct 7, 2006