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Coach Shannahans take on Patriots defense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MrTibbs, Oct 9, 2006.

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  1. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I was watching NFL Countdown and coach Shannahan was quoted as saying the difference between the Ravens and Patriots defense is the Patriots don't have the speed nor the athletes compared to the Ravens defense. After watching the Chargers defense against the Steelers last night I'd have to completely agree with his obseravations. The Chargers defense was sick, I mean they flew to the ball every down and were just far more explosive. I can only imagine what Belichick would do with a defense like that. Like anything else though it takes time to build a team and takes a lot of juggling and salry cap know how to keep it that way. We do have one of the smartest most disciplined defenses without a doubt.

    Just a little tidbit of info I thought I'd share.
     
  2. Underoath

    Underoath On the Game Day Roster

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    i agree, i think we still have a great defense, but we're old and not so fast anymore
     
  3. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    its true and quite obvious our defensive speed is much less as compared the other good defenses especially in the LB and secondary..hopefully it will turned around in the future just like the dline has been...
     
  4. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I'd have to partly agree. It's been a bend but don't break defense too long. They haven't addressed the back 7 for a while. I hope this draft they add some speed and playmakers. people will disagree with me and I could be wrong, they've produced a load of turnovers the past two games. The players also must conform to the system which causes some restrictions too
     
  5. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was Tatum Bell that made those comments, not Shannahan.
     
  6. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    This is the draft that the Pats take defense with their two #1's. They need team speed at LB and Safety.
     
  7. edgecy

    edgecy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Indeed, I believe that our D, as a whole, is still not complete. We have built a great DLine, strong, fast and YOUNG, but we have yet to really address the LBs, and to some extent the DBs. I suspect we will see a LB drafted high next year for us.
     
  8. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think I'm missing something here. Bruschi and Seau are certainly not speedsters but 3-4 ILB's rarely are. Vrabel, Colvin, and Banta-Cain have decent speed, which is more necessary for 3-4 OLB's. I guess what I mean is that the players have the abilities that fit the criteria for their positions.
     
  9. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    I completley agree. Watching the LB's blitz now makes me cringe, they tend to run in a pile and get stopped. We do need more team speed and playmakers. This draft needs to address getting studs on Defense. after next years draft I want their bio's to say-'Playmaker, can start immediatly" rather then "Should help on special teams"
     
  10. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Blitzes are a lot about timing as a unit. Last year it appeared we had the same problem early in the season, but then later in the season the blitzes baecame much more effective. Part of the reason could be that the defense does have it's timing down yet and it needs more playing time to get it. Just a possibility.
     
  11. zarakotas5

    zarakotas5 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    The NFL is not-so-slowly evolving towards the college game, where athleticism is prized. Yes, it has always been so, but it is accelerating. Remember, the NFL is really nothing more than a contiuation of the college game: the best of NCAA become NFL.

    Speed is the best asset in the NCAA. In the NFL, tactics are more prevalent but, like anything, it is a question of risk/reward. When the balance is eventually shifted, changes are made and we, as fans, speculate about it. The Pats are lagging behind, but are maintaining. Offense has been addressed. Maroney is at the top of the crest, as is Jackson and the O-line. D-line is good for now and the next few. The secondary is ok, but really should be addressed quickly to plug up the holes in a leaking dam. LB is a position we know needs help soon.
     
  12. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    Didn't see it... But if T. Bell made those comments, I wonder if he felt the same way after being smacked around like a little byatch in the divisional playoffs. I don't remember him doing squat. The Pats run a 3-4, the ravens run a 4-3. Obviously the Ravens LBers are faster, because the system requires it. Conversely, the Pats LBers are bigger, except for Adalius Thomas (270 lbs). The Pats lack only a real rush LBer to be fearsome. The Chargers D:

    Chargers D-line: Castillo, Williams, Olshansky;
    Pats D-line: Seymour, Warren, Wilfork
    Edge: Even
    Chargers LBers: Merriman, Edwards, Shaun Philips, Randall Godfrey.
    Pats Lbers: Colvin, Bruschi, Vrabel, SEau/Banta Cain.
    Edge: Chargers, if Merriman is healthy (he has an achilles problem and looked tentative the other night.
    Chargers secondary:Jammer, Florence, McCree, Kiel/Cromartie
    Pats secondary: Samuel, Hobbs, Harrison, Hawkins/wilson
    Edge: Even

    IMO, the Defenses are comparable. The only edge to the Chargers is Merriman (admittedly a big edge), if healthy. If the Pats can acquire a dynamic edge rusher they will have a more attacking style. Also, I am a big fan of Cromartie's potential. He could become awesome, in time.
     
  13. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Isn't that Colvin?

    I know he hasn't been stunning, but the same happened last year, but then he came on strong at the end of the season.

    I definitely think we should spend a high pick on a LB next year, but I don't think we have big problems there now.
     
  14. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    I had high hopes for Colvin entering the year, and went so far as to predict an all-pro year... but in retrospect, it appears to me that his production last year may have been based more on playing next to Seymour than anything else. He just doesn't have the burst. Usually a half a step late. Not bad, but not fearsome or dynamic. We need a monster. Monsters are hard to find... scouring the college ranks reveals a couple prospects... Gaines Adams of Clemson and Moses of Georgia... the free agent ranks don't look promising, unless you think Adalius Thomas fits the bill (I don't), or maybe the splash of all splashes, Freeney (too costly). A Freak like that, + a pro-bowl athlete in the secondary, is what separates the Pats from legendary status on D...
     
  15. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Colvin and Vrabel are a pretty good pair of rushers. I don't see why anybody should be busting on them for that. On the other hand, when we talk about speed -- I think the only players on the whole defense who are above average for speed at their positions are probably the DL first-round pick guys.
     
  16. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    During our Superbowl run, when was the defense ever "fast". They've never been a speedy defense.
     
  17. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    And that's why they bend. On a long field, there are open spots for offensive players to which offensive players can outrun them.
     
  18. rabthepat

    rabthepat 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I'd take tackling ability over speed any day. What's the point in getting to the ball if you just arm tackle and let the guy burn you for 10+ yards. Our problem is when we decide tackling is just too difficult.
     
  19. hwc

    hwc 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I disagree with much of what has been written.

    First, if Shanahan said anything like that, he was probably refering to two completely different styles of defense. One style, typified by the Colts 195 lb linebackers, is a small fast pursuing defense. The Pats style of defense is completely different: big physical linebackers and front-seven gap control. Belichick doesn't want his defense flying to the ball, willie-nillie, leaving their gap control assignments.

    I seriously, seriously doubt that Shanahan has anything but respect for Belichick's style of defense. As Belichick often says, there is more than one way that works in the NFL. For example, Belichick respects the effectiveness of the Broncos' zone blocking schemes, but chooses not to play that way as a steady diet, prefering more of a pulling/trapping style of o-line blocking and bigger more powerful backs.

    For those who have said the Pats need to focus some resources on stud defensive players, I would ask, "what do you think those three 1st round draft picks on the d-line are?"

    I also disagree with the assessment that our defense is old. Actually, we have a very young defense. The only age on the starting roster is strong safety and two of the four linebackers.
     
  20. hwc

    hwc 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Belichick defenses bend because Belichick's #1 rule of defense, no matter what, at all times, no exceptions, is to keep the play in front of you and don't give up big play scores. Make the offense execute a sustained drive to get into the red zone.

    If they do that without shooting themselves in the foot with a dropped pass or holding penalty, then the defense no longer has to defend the deep play -- the back line of the end zone defends that for them. So Belichick's philosophy does a 180 degree flip and he plays very aggressively.

    Any fan who can't handle the "bend" part honestly should root for a different team. It is very typical for Pats opponents to drive the length of the field, particularly early in the game. It is also typical for those opponents to post fewer than 17 points at the end of the game.
     
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