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Clayton calls us losers...


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Is it 9/1/06? Have I lost 5 months somewhere? There are two phases of FA, this is jsut the first phase. The next phase starts 6/1.

It order to declare winners and losers wouldn't it be fair to wait until the entire FA period is over? I guess they can't wait to declare. So, it was an meaningless atricle on a subjest heat is still on going.

If you only look at the first three weeks, we have lost more than what we have gained. But giving grade out now is just stupid.
 
Who gives a rat's behind what the "pencil necked geek" says one way or the other anyway? He's just another talking head who doesn't know how the Patriots work in the off-season because that would actually take some effort to look up and analyze. Too much work!
 
Bobs My Uncle said:
Browns winning SB XLI? That's as crazy a notion as, well the Pats winning SB XXXVI ;)
That may well be. But we also had a hall of fame QB waiting for Mo Lewis to do his thing. I have a feeling Charlie Frye isn't the next Brady - not that I can say that definitively. And, with all due respect to Romeo, I don't think he is the next Belichick, nor is Maurice Carthon the next Charlie Weis.

And they have a tough schedule - they may be improved but they aren't making the playoffs, let alone winning the Super Bowl.
 
BelichickFan said:
That may well be. But we also had a hall of fame QB waiting for Mo Lewis to do his thing. I have a feeling Charlie Frye isn't the next Brady - not that I can say that definitively. And, with all due respect to Romeo, I don't think he is the next Belichick, nor is Maurice Carthon the next Charlie Weis.

And they have a tough schedule - they may be improved but they aren't making the playoffs, let alone winning the Super Bowl.
That's why the Brownies are like 55-1 to win the big one I suppose.

But getting back to the jist of the article. It's quite apparent that Clayton's article focuses not on the finished product but the current product, and, right now, the Pats (and Browns for that matter) are far from a finished product. Doesn't mean his article isn't accurate however.
 
Brick said:
No one is disputing that it is stiil early. IMO that does that mean you're not entitled to an opinion that does not offer knee jerk praise for the (in)action of the Pats front office so far.

The fact is they have lost some quality players McGinest, Vinatieri, Givens, etc and have yet to replace any of them. They will probably find replacements equally productive as the guys who've left but there is a chance they'll sign the next Duane Starks- Monty Biesel type too.
I think those are pretty good observations.

Sometimes I think folks forget that no 'formula' for staffing a football team is going to win every superbowl - it would be pretty dense to think that. On the other hand, if you look at the proven track record - who has - or has ever had - as good a formula as Belichick and Pioli ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? Maybe three or four teams in the past - but arguably none better than the Pats. Brick aptly points out that the approach doesn't always work each and every year. But it doesn't make much sense AT ALL to advocate a different 'formula' when there is apparently none better on the average than the Pats !! ?? !! ?? !! Every sound steady formula has an underlying strategy and approach. I think the vast majority of posters on this board know almost EXACTLY what the strategy and approach are - there is just no mystery about it !! So to complain and criticize and moan and have the arrogance to judge that the Patriots are now 'blowing' it by not going away from a proven 'formula' - and the arrogance to think that particular moves would be 'better' and disastrous if not made - is pretty much a total lack of any smidgeon of common sense - and a pretty senseless arrogance to think that their 'judgment' is better than the consummate professionals that Belichick and Pioli have PROVEN to be.

It certainly makes all kinds of sense to WONDER how a particular move or non-move fits into the overall strategy and to HOPE it works out. BUT, such speculation in the context that so many posters point out as to the fact that there are a lot of roster actions yet to be made, both free agency and draft - and that the ultimate evaluation of whether the 'formula' works is the overall number of superbowls won.

In terms of context, Clayton actually shows a respectful and thoughtful view of the Patriots' approach in another segment:

"Patriots have plenty to spend: The Patriots have lost six unrestricted free agents, including kicker Adam Vinatieri and Dwight. They've cut linebacker Willie McGinest and cornerback Tyrone Poole. The Patriots are obviously in a state of transition. They will probably lose offensive lineman Tom Ashworth in the next day or two and could also lose guard Stephen Neal. The big question is what they are up to. They have $21 million of cap room, second most in the league. They must be saving up for something big."
 
"We are the biggest losers?" I'm not employed by the NE Patriots are any of you?
 
bostonbuzz said:
"We are the biggest losers?" I'm not employed by the NE Patriots are any of you?
I get so tired of the old crap about fans not being "we" relative to the team. We. Us. They're OUR team. Deal with it.
 
Bobs My Uncle said:
"It's not over until the Patriots say it's over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

Otter: Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right.

:woohoo:
 
There is no doubt that we are the biggest losers in free agency. Not only that, they have those darn fences across the Sagamore Bridge! I sure hope we are still in the running next week when they name this year's MVP. Oh heck, we'll never have a chance as long as Manning is playing. Hopefully, Clayton will get some insight from Bill and I can put my will back in the desk.
 
Bobs My Uncle said:
Well, it's kinda tough to argue against anyone who calls the Pats "losers" at this stage of the game. Does it mean it's over and we outta close up shop? Not a chance. "It's not over until the Patriots say it's over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

In the interest of historical accuracy the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The Germans were busy bombing England and taking on Russia........ :rocker:
 
p8ryts said:
Oh well, the Redskins won the March Super Bowl for at least the 5th consecutive year and of course, Miami, the new darling of the NFL was a strong contender. We'll see where the Fins are in January.


Yes and according to the media the Colts beat Seatle in the superbowl.
 
BelichickFan said:
I get so tired of the old crap about fans not being "we" relative to the team. We. Us. They're OUR team. Deal with it.[/QUOTE

LMAO!

WAIT! You're serious!

Don't feel bad...Robert Kraft was one of us too a few years ago!
 
Brick said:
No one is disputing that it is stiil early. IMO that does that mean you're not entitled to an opinion that does not offer knee jerk praise for the (in)action of the Pats front office so far.

The fact is they have lost some quality players McGinest, Vinatieri, Givens, etc and have yet to replace any of them. They will probably find replacements equally productive as the guys who've left but there is a chance they'll sign the next Duane Starks- Monty Biesel type too.

Of course, lets not bother to remember that last year we spent a ton on doing a Dillon Contract extension. And lets not forget that the Pats didn't have a lot of cap room to begin with. They had enough room to make one attempt at a "big splash." That was Derrick Mason. And it didn't pan out because of his wife.

The Pats also were put into a tough situation because of Ty Law not re-negotiating and the Pats having 6 mill in dead cap money plus another 3 mill or so less from NLTBE adjustments.

So, the Pats were in a tough situation as it was and they did the best they could with the money they had available.
 
Re: title of this thread "Clayton calls Pats losers":

Kinda like Mauritania declaring war on the U.S.
 
Bobs My Uncle said:
I think the point is if McGinest and Washington help the Browns win a SB this upcoming season then it matters very little what value they hold to the team in seasons beyond.

FTR, I think Caldwell is as overpaid as JJ is.

How is Caldwell, who is scheduled to make under a million this year, just as over-paid as Joe Jurevicius?
 
Bobs My Uncle said:
Browns winning SB XLI? That's as crazy a notion as, well the Pats winning SB XXXVI ;)


Veteran minimum with no bonus seems about right to me.

*ROFLMOA* Ok. Now that you have joked around, be a bit serious.

If you were being serious, then why don't you show everyone what your pay scale model looks like.
 
arrellbee said:
Sometimes I think folks forget that no 'formula' for staffing a football team is going to win every superbowl - it would be pretty dense to think that. On the other hand, if you look at the proven track record - who has - or has ever had - as good a formula as Belichick and Pioli ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? In terms of context, Clayton actually shows a respectful and thoughtful view of the Patriots' approach in another segment:
Very good points about models...they are very complex and dollar amounts may be available higher lower...there are many factors to it...I basically just think fans see the tip of the iceberg and just have a general feeling about what they do versus other teams...and certanly not ALWAYS successful in a SB win. Clayton does show a bit of respect and understanding..I just think trying to make winnrs and losers this early in an off season is silly.
 
BelichickFan said:
I get so tired of the old crap about fans not being "we" relative to the team. We. Us. They're OUR team. Deal with it.

I agree.

I always claim my favorite team as my own. Even if I don't get their checks and pay their bills.
 
the good news for this year is that we don't have to wonder when the "Us against the world" theme will kick in for the players. I have to say this is the kind of coverage they so love...hope it lasts all season long.
 
The fact of the matter is that the Pats haven't been as active in Free Agency this year as they have in the past. Last year, they picked up Flutie, Terrell, and Starks. The year before, Dillon. The year before Harrison. The year before Colvin. There was usually always one big name to excite the Patriot fans. This year, nothing. I don't think Reche Caldwell counts. Maybe the Pats just feel burned by last year, when the free agents didn't pan out at all.
 
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