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Chris Long (merged x2)

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by danny88, Nov 9, 2007.

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  1. danny88

    danny88 Banned

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    Discuss. I like this kid. Plays in the 3/4 at virginia right?
  2. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Chris Long

    Posited:

    - Chris Long looks like a terrific player who would do beautifully with the Patriots.

    - The Patriots will not draft Chris Long where they're currently projected to draft.

    The team already has a lot of money committed to some very good young defensive ends. Adding $8-10 million/year for Long just doesn't seem like a good use of resources. A couple of posters have suggested trying Long at ILB, but that's a huuuuge position shift, not nearly the certainty or short-term impact you're looking for when you spend that kind of money. So personally I can't see him here if the Pats have a pick in the 4-6 range. If they and he are still waiting around at #10, that's a different story.

    This seems like a good moment to rant: how UNBELIEVABLY STUPID is it that the #1 player in the draft gets 4 TIMES as much money as the #10??? :violent:
  3. danny88

    danny88 Banned

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    Re: Chris Long

    I guess long's little brother is 6'8 28- in highschool. he is uspposed to be a beast also. Jeez Howie, those are some genes!
  4. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    This kid is projected to be a Top 5 pick. Suppossedly has the versatility to play end in the 4-3 and noseguard in the 3-4. Al Groh is the coach at Virginia and BB used to coach with this guy on Parcells staff. I don't care how many d-linemen we have, because you can NEVER have enough d-linemen. I wonder if this kid would be an option for the Pats.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  5. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    What about that McFadden guy? :singing:
  6. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Picking him that high would make him more highly paid than all the DL except maybe Seymour.

    More highly paid than all the LBs except maybe Thomas.

    Does that sound right for a rookie who's never played in the NFL?

    He's 280 pounds, kind of small for a NG.
  7. Warren94

    Warren94 Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Good Player, but I don't see him as a top five selection. Can't wait for the combine.
  8. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Buddy, do you read my posts or do you just skim thru them? I have said repeatedly over the past week that I have backed off my draft McFadden stance because we can get a running back that is better than Glass later in the 1st rd if we draft down or in the 2nd or 3rd rd. That's not hard to do.
  9. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick


    So what? Somebody has to draft the Peyton Manning's, LT's, Troy Aikman's, Richard Seymour's, and countless other STUDS that were drafted in the Top 5-6. I also read where some scouts feel he can be a DeMarcus Ware type and play DE/OLB and be a menacing pass rusher.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  10. NYPatsFan

    NYPatsFan Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Am I the only one who think that Howie Long still looks like he could suit up for a few plays? Most former players balloon up after their playing days. Howie Long still looks like he could kick some butt.
  11. Pedrorocks458

    Pedrorocks458 Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    NG in the 3-4. LOL. Watch one of his games. The kid is, at best, 280. There is no way he could play NG in the 3-4. Not only that, why the heck do we want another 3-4 NG? I wonder even whether 3-4 DE is the best fit.
  12. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Buddy, I'm not Mel Kiper. i just go by what the scouting reports say. Settle down there junior.
  13. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    In this specific instance, I was testing your sense of humor.

    Further testing may be necessary.
  14. Pedrorocks458

    Pedrorocks458 Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Do you have any logic? In one thread you said he could play 4-3 DE, 3-4 NT, and 3-4 OLB. Does that sound correct to you? Who is he -- football jesus?
  15. PatDaPatriot

    PatDaPatriot Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Saw him play a couple of games this year. He's a man amongst boys in college. He has a non-stop motor, and I really believe he could add another dimension to the Pats' pass rush...
  16. Ishdul

    Ishdul Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Although he could be able to play as an OLB or a 3-4 DE, he just makes the most sense lined up one-on-one against a tackle where he's a proven terror. We've already got one of the best pass rushes in the league, anyways.
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Todd McShay's current mock has us taking Long after Miami takes Dorsey :

    'That the undefeated Patriots are currently looking at the second oveall pick hardly seems fair. New England could go in many different directions here but Long is a much better match than any other prospect -- both schematically and philosophically -- for head coach Bill Belichick and his team. Long has been the top senior on my board since August and his versatility, effort and team-first mentality make him a perfect fit in New England."
  18. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    So what? Well suppose he's none of those above players. Suppose he's just another Joe? That can't happen? It happens all the time. Different level of competition.

    Then you've got a bust on your hand with 20M in guarantees.

    That's why picking there is stupid.

    No matter how good he is, the odds of him being the 'next' Richard Seymour are SLIM. Very SLIM. Yet he's being paid like he is a SURE THING. That's stupid economics.
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    That's not true. The odds may not be worth the risk but don't overstate it; while the big money busts are mentioned a lot, there's a lot of big money high picks who are studs. Very slim is way overstating it.

    Personally I like Long, I'm just not sure how we would get him the playing time a pick that high would need.
  20. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    His best fit would probably be 4-3 DE. Or 3-4 OLB if he lost about 20 pounds.

    I would trade the pick even up for the 15th pick just because the cost is so much less.

    I don't get the NFL draft. The worst teams pick first...fair enough. But they have to pay so much in salary it more than NEGATES the advantage they get.

    All players in the round should get roughly the same salary...that would make it a true bargain for the bad teams and give them a huge advantage.

    JaMarcus Russell is guaranteed something like 30M over 6 years, with more in salary. I mean when he's a bust, he'll wreck their cap. If he's good...the Raiders are getting a 'fair' value, but not a 'great one'. How can people be this stupid? No wonder bad teams stay bad. Those high picks are like an anchor around their neck.
  21. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    I saw a list of past #2 picks for the past 10 years. About 2 were studs, most mediocre and a couple outright busts.

    All that for 8M per year? No thanks, I don't like those odds.
  22. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Looking at #2 picks is silly. There's no inherent difference between them and #3. I just happened to look at two years and saw Robert Gallery and Charles Rogers as #2 picks. But the #3 picks were Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson. The #2 picks were busts, the #3 picks weren't. You're severely limiting your sample size by looking just at #2.

    Additionally, most high picks go to crappy teams which undoubtedly increases the bust rate.
  23. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Here's a list of #2 picks.
    81 Lawrence Taylor
    82 Johnnie Cooks lb Chip Banks went 3 another lb and good one...
    83 Eric Dickerson
    84 Dean Steinkuhler Carl Banks lb went 3
    85 Bill Fralic
    86 Tony Casillas
    87 Cornelius Bennett
    88 Neil Smith
    89 Tony Mandarich...oops...Could have been B.Sanders or D.Sanders
    90 Blair Thomas...Cortez Kennedy went 3
    91 Eric Turner - s - Pro Bowler...died tragically..
    92 Quentin Coryatt - lb ...God what an awful draft..Top 10 was Emtman,Coryatt, Gilbert, D. Howard,T.Buckley,D.Klingler,T.Vincent,B.Whitfield,T.Vardell,R.Robers...Pats drafted immortal E.Chung at 13..maybe our worse pick ever
    93 Rick Mirer ...G.Hearst went 3rd...I'm sure he was 2 on most boards behind Bledsoe
    94 Marshall Faulk
    95 Tony Boselli
    96 Kevin Hardy
    97 Darrell Russell
    98 Ryan Leaf
    00 Donovan McNabb
    01 Lavar Arrington
    02 Leonard Davis
    03 Charles Rogers
    04 Robert Gallery
    05 Ronnie Brown
    06 Reggie Bush
    07 Calvin Johnson

    Seems OL is the biggest position for mistakes. Scratch J.Long from my list. Def. players seem like safer bets.
  24. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Thanks for your very good post. I think they have to play more 4-3 if they take Long...he seems kind of like Jarvis Green. So Jarvis Green at twice the money basically.

    The 'value' of a draft, defined by what you get minus what you pay is highest late 1st to 3rd, I've heard the Pats FO say.

    I think I'd trade the #2 pick this year straight up for the #18 pick. 6M per year cap savings. Less risk. I know, I know, it's crazy.
  25. Ishdul

    Ishdul Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    I think the thing is that you have to trust your scouting staff. With the Patriots, no problem, why wouldn't we? Meanwhile, a lot of the league's bottom feeders basically make their draft based on Mel Kiper's board, so yeah, teams like that are going to make bad picks.

    A team like the Browns is going to suck when they pick Tim Couch, Courtney Brown and Gerard Warren with top 3 picks back-to-back-to-back. Coincidentally, they're now looking like a playoff team because of the exploits of Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow Jr. and Joe Thomas.

    The top of the draft is still something of a crapshoot, but we've shown superior scouting and that should only be amplified in the top 5, and the fact is that you can win big with such a pick.
  26. JaredOfNazareth

    JaredOfNazareth Rookie

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    I think crappy teams reach too much in the first round. Drafting a QB because you need one or whatever position. We have a luxury here where most teams do not. The absolute safest pick is Dorsey. I'm not saying we should take him. He is the least likely to bust IMO.
  27. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    As others have said, it's silly to look at picks of perennial losers like the Cardinals or Lions and expect the same results from the Patriots. We have a better organization, structure, veteran leadership, coaching. The exact same player who was a bust for Detroit might have been an allstar for us. Additionally, as I said, you need to look at top five picks, not just #2.
  28. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Can you elaborate on this because everything I've seen tells me he's a top 5 guy.
  29. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    He's already got a contract waiting for him in Miami which could be voided by a trade which in all likelihood would cost a team their entire draft to acquire Miami's #1.

    Sorry, he's ours. ;)
  30. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Re: Howie Long's son DE Chris Long - Top 5 Pick

    Some truth to that, but some guys are head cases. Bethel Johnson? Not a head case but they couldn't make it work here. Dexter Reid, Guss Scott. I mean this organization may have good coaching but you can't turn dross into gold...and some of those guys were seen as "can't miss".

    #2 pick is very risky. He's coming in and getting more than any veteran except Brady and Moss (assuming they sign him for next year). That's a little crazy.

    It's easy to get excited about guys watching their college films, but the pro game is so different sometimes it just doesn't translate.
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