Cap Room After Two Weeks

[upstater1]

This is a really good point.

So you're saying its not in the Pats best interest to extend Vince this season?

Its also worth noting that a) we can control him w the franchise tag, although thanks to Haynesworth, that'll be more expensive next year b) next year's draft is deep on the DL, especially w Mount Cody at DT. Basically, the Pats do have some leverage in this situation.

It all depends on whether we go to an uncapped year AND whether Kraft is willing to shell out big bucks in that year. If he is, then we're better off signing Wilfork next year, not this one. If Vince is worth say, a $20 million signing bonus, then you can take some of that weight off by simply giving him a 15 million salary next year (assuming he's, say, a $9 million a year player average for the contract). Let's say then that, for Vince's purposes, half of that salary is ostensibly a roster-bonus to be counted in the uncapped year, and that the salary is guaranteed. You would have only been paying him, say, $7 million in salary. So now, you only have to pay him $12 million in signing bonus which can be spread over the life of the contract.

If Kraft is willing to shell out more than he otherwise would have in a capped year, then yes, we're better off waiting to sign Wilfork.

 

[Rob0729]

Didn't they just renegotiate Moss last week to free up like 750K?

You are right. Moss cannot be renegotiated again this year. But there are a few other guys who can. It will make it slightly harder, but still very doable.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This is a really good point.

So you're saying its not in the Pats best interest to extend Vince this season?

Its also worth noting that a) we can control him w the franchise tag, although thanks to Haynesworth, that'll be more expensive next year b) next year's draft is deep on the DL, especially w Mount Cody at DT. Basically, the Pats do have some leverage in this situation.

They will have both a franchise and transition tag available for 2010, but they will need the franchise tag to control Seymour. Wilfork could wear the transition tag and they could match any contract offer heading into an uncapped season. Or both could just remain tagged if 2010 doesn't pan out as the panacea the union anticipates due to economic and labor concerns. Teams may not be as willing to sign big deals if they anticipate no new CBA and a work stoppage in 2011.

The risk you run is 2010 may not be uncapped if an agreement gets hammered out this season (and we'd be in trouble with several projected RFA's suddenly becoming UFA again) but the leverage you still have is Vince probably doesn't want to assume all the risk of playing in 2009 for $2M knowing he could be injured and effectively screwed out of tens of millions heading into either an uncapped or capped future. Reportedly they are again negotiating with him. Nothing pisses off veterans more than seeing teams spend on other FA while they wait for theirs.

Convert Brady's roster bonus into a signing bonus. Savings: around $1.5 million

You could easily convert part or most of Brady's ($5 million), Moss' ($4.9 million), or Light's ($4.2 million) base salaries into signing bonuses and free up around $6 million. All are signed through 2010 so Brady can probably create about $2.3 million of cap space for Brady, $2.1 million for Moss, and $1.8 million for Light. These are estimates and could be a few $100k or so higher or lower. Not a capologist.

So you do those four moves, the Pats free up around $7.5 -$8 million. Too easy.

As Miguel says, if a team wants cap room, it isn't too hard for them to create cap room these days. I am paraphrasing a bit.

Just a bit...

I don't think Peppers is going anywhere let alone here. I don't think Taylor is coming here unless he has a come to Jesus moment contractually and they determine they cannot get a deal done with Wilfork. In that case Tommy would restructure and a couple of others could be enticed to which could free up enough money for that kind of signing (much like what Wilfork's extension would require - $4-5M). If he wants his remaining $8.5M for one more season, he ain't getting it here. Just like Peppers isn't getting double digits for multiple seasons.

FYI - Brady's roster bonus was already paid and Miguel doesn't think it could be converted as a result. And Moss' already restructured for cap room to sign Taylor so his contract is untouchable for another 12 months - you can only revisit them once a year. So Brady and Light might net you $4M between them.

This team has always approached each season with an eye on the ensuing 3-5 years business as well as footbal plan, and if there is even a chance at the cap returning they aren't going to set themselves up to land in it's hell for a one shot season opportunity. Nor are the Krafts inclined to compete in an uncapped league by outspending a half dozen teams prepared to throw unlimited funds at varying mega talents. The system as it evolved here succeeded because it was a philosophical value based meeting of the minds between a business savvy family and a football savvy HC and a QB who truly cares more about winning football games than winning compensation competitions.

Smart businessmen want fixed, manageable costs. I think an uncapped league would be the one thing that leads to the Krafts exiting the NFL down the road. They'd rather give money away than squander it on thugs, hoodlums and prima donnas who need their egos stroked via contracts as the only means to an end...

 

[upstater1]

Thank you very much for clarifying this. I was wondering about that, but I'm not very well informed on how contracts work, and didn't know that if you let one expire at the end of 09, if it has an effect on what the next contract could be. You set me straight... good stuff.

Well, this only applies to year to year increases on a new contract. It doesn't apply to how much you can increase an old contract to a new one. In other words, a guy making $1 million can sign a contract that averages $8 million a year, but that new contract can't start with a $3 million salary that jumps to a $6 million salary that then jumps to $9 million, etc. The most that the new salary can increase per year is 30%.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You could easily convert part or most of Brady's ($5 million), Moss' ($4.9 million), or Light's ($4.2 million) base salaries into signing bonuses and free up around $6 million. All are signed through 2010 so Brady can probably create about $2.3 million of cap space for Brady, $2.1 million for Moss, and $1.8 million for Light. These are estimates and could be a few $100k or so higher or lower. Not a capologist.

Well, this only applies to year to year increases on a new contract. It doesn't apply to how much you can increase an old contract to a new one. In other words, a guy making $1 million can sign a contract that averages $8 million a year, but that new contract can't start with a $3 million salary that jumps to a $6 million salary that then jumps to $9 million, etc. The most that the new salary can increase per year is 30%.

This is true, and importantly, also applies to renegotiated contracts. which puts limits on the amount of cap pushing that can be done.

As someone else noted, Moss already re-negotiated, so he can't renegotiate again this year. I don't think $8M is possible, though, on renegotiations. Probably more like $4M.

 

[Rob0729]

Just a bit...

I don't think Peppers is going anywhere let alone here. I don't think Taylor is coming here unless he has a come to Jesus moment contractually and they determine they cannot get a deal done with Wilfork. In that case Tommy would restructure and a couple of others could be enticed to which could free up enough money for that kind of signing (much like what Wilfork's extension would require - $4-5M). If he wants his remaining $8.5M for one more season, he ain't getting it here. Just like Peppers isn't getting double digits for multiple seasons.

FYI - Brady's roster bonus was already paid and Miguel doesn't think it could be converted as a result. And Moss' already restructured for cap room to sign Taylor so his contract is untouchable for another 12 months - you can only revisit them once a year. So Brady and Light might net you $4M between them.

This team has always approached each season with an eye on the ensuing 3-5 years business as well as footbal plan, and if there is even a chance at the cap returning they aren't going to set themselves up to land in it's hell for a one shot season opportunity. Nor are the Krafts inclined to compete in an uncapped league by outspending a half dozen teams prepared to throw unlimited funds at varying mega talents. The system as it evolved here succeeded because it was a philosophical value based meeting of the minds between a business savvy family and a football savvy HC and a QB who truly cares more about winning football games than winning compensation competitions.

Smart businessmen want fixed, manageable costs. I think an uncapped league would be the one thing that leads to the Krafts exiting the NFL down the road. They'd rather give money away than squander it on thugs, hoodlums and prima donnas who need their egos stroked via contracts as the only means to an end...

I already conceeded Moss' renegotiation. Forgot he already renegotiated.

As for Brady's roster bonus, I do think they can still convert it even after being paid. I could be wrong, but I think it has happened in the past. You can't take it back, but you can change how it is recorded by the team.

As for the Pats doing any of these moves or any player coming here, I never said it would happen. I personally think Peppers is not coming here. Taylor might if no one overpays him elsewhere where he has a shot to win a title. Even if these opportunities arise, I don't know if the Pats would want to restructure. My point was that IF the Pats wanted to create more cap room to sign free agents or make trades, it wouldn't be that hard. I think the Pats are done with significant free agent moves unless Taylor takes a more value deal or another attractive free agent is cut.

 

[mgteich]

Miguel can best tell what is possible without the extensions to Light, Faulk and Green that I support. Your examples are restructures.

MOSS
This has already been done, so there is nothing left.

LIGHT
If take this year salary into signing bonus, the new contract will have a 2009 and 2010 salary that violates the 30% rule. Back-end contracts are simply not allowed.

BRADY
There are a couple of issues here. First can the roster bonus already paid be essentially reversed. Secondly, we have the same salaery issue as with Light. It is my understanding that in the new contract, the 2010 salary cannot be more than 30% higher than the 2009 salary.

Convert Brady's roster bonus into a signing bonus. Savings: around $1.5 million

You could easily convert part or most of Brady's ($5 million), Moss' ($4.9 million), or Light's ($4.2 million) base salaries into signing bonuses and free up around $6 million. All are signed through 2010 so Brady can probably create about $2.3 million of cap space for Brady, $2.1 million for Moss, and $1.8 million for Light. These are estimates and could be a few $100k or so higher or lower. Not a capologist.

So you do those four moves, the Pats free up around $7.5 -$8 million. Too easy.

As Miguel says, if a team wants cap room, it isn't too hard for them to create cap room these days. I am paraphrasing a bit.

 

[mgteich]

It is best for Vinnie and the pats to agree to an agreement for a future contract starting in 2010 that will not be executed until no part of the signing bonus would be applied to the 2009 cap. I don't know when that date is, but it usually well before free agency starts in 2010. In the end, if Wilfork refuse to execute when the time comes, Wilfork can be franchised for two years if necessary.

This is a really good point.

So you're saying its not in the Pats best interest to extend Vince this season?

Its also worth noting that a) we can control him w the franchise tag, although thanks to Haynesworth, that'll be more expensive next year b) next year's draft is deep on the DL, especially w Mount Cody at DT. Basically, the Pats do have some leverage in this situation.

 

[Rob0729]

Miguel can best tell what is possible without the extensions to Light, Faulk and Green that I support. Your examples are restructures.

MOSS
This has already been done, so there is nothing left.

LIGHT
If take this year salary into signing bonus, the new contract will have a 2009 and 2010 salary that violates the 30% rule. Back-end contracts are simply not allowed.

BRADY
There are a couple of issues here. First can the roster bonus already paid be essentially reversed. Secondly, we have the same salaery issue as with Light. It is my understanding that in the new contract, the 2010 salary cannot be more than 30% higher than the 2009 salary.

First I thought the 30% rule was on new contracts not existing ones. So renegotioning contracts would not be counted if I understand correctly.

Second, I am pretty sure that the Pats did convert a roster bonus to a signing bonus after it was paid out in the past, but I could be wrong.

Third, according to Miguel's future page, Brady's 2010 cap hit is already $4 million dollars less next year than it is this year. And his base salary in 2010 decreases by $1.5 million in 2009. So renegotiating his base salary would not be affected by the 30% rule. At least to a certain point.

Fourth, according to Miguel, Light's base salary is $1.4 million less next year than this year and his overall cap hit is about $700-800k less in 2010 than it is in 2009. So the Pats would have room with the 30% rule even if it applies with his contract too.

I will defer to Miguel too, but he has frequently said that almost any team can free up significant cap space if they want to/have to.

 

[Miguel]

First I thought the 30% rule was on new contracts not existing ones. So renegotioning contracts would not be counted if I understand correctly..

A renegotiated contract is a new contract.