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Can we now end the "Just give them time" excuses?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Nov 24, 2006.

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    OK - its after Thanksgiving. We've gone through the majority of the first 10 games hearing that the offense - particularly the receiving game "just needs more time"

    Can we put an end to this now? How they play is how they are - ... it is what it is as one coach I know often says.

    This is far from a perfect team - but there is no need to make excuses... what's going to make the difference is whether or not the team can rise above its many flaws and simply do what needs to be done to win some very tough games.

    Hopefully the receivers can play beyond their skills - as some have been (I'll say for the dozenth time Reche Caldwell is proving me and a lot of other people wrong about him) and hopefully this will free up Watson for some more yardage than he's been getting because of the tight coverage.

    All this being said, I still give rookies like Chad Jackson until the playoffs to truly start playing like veterans rather than rookies -but while we should still keep expecations reasonable for CJ I'm expecting he'll get a lot more passes coming his way in the next few games.
     
  2. kptmorgan04

    kptmorgan04 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    yes and yes..... as has been said by many who havent been jumping off bridges after losses, this is the time of year when we can start to truely judge what this team is made of. A win or loss to the bears wont completly say one way or another, but it will tell alot more about this team than it would have 6 weeks ago.
    I really really hope to see some more production from CJ in the next few games, because if not I dont see him all of the sudden coming on during the playoffs, but never know.
     
  3. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    185 - 317 - 14 - 6.8 Seahawks

    199 - 334 - 9 - 6.87 Patriots

    Since we have more completions for more yardage and a better average than the team with Darryl Jackson, Deion and 7 mil a year Burleson,the question is:

    Give them time for what?

    Will our passing game get better? Probably. Is that a bad thing?

    Also 6th rated passing O in AFC by NFL.com, (Don't know what their formula is).

    Fifth rated run O BTW.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  4. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I think the common refrain was that Brady and his teammates needed "time" to get to know each other to improve their performance and missed passes (by the way do your stats include missed passes and dropped passes etc... or just those that
    are actually completed?)

    I apologize though - I could have sworn we had some pretty mediocre games against the Jets and Colts just a few weeks ago and there were plenty of excuses then. But then you have a great game against a Super Bowl contender like the Packers and everyone forgets about that.

    I must be thinking of another team. As you note the statistics show that this team is better than most of our previous teams.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  5. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey



    Meh, after watching Lions v. Phins yesterday it made me appreciate how good the Pats are all the more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  6. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Of course you look tighter using the same two receivers all the time.

    With your rosey colored hindsight glasses, you probably remember Deion and Givens being healthy all the time.

    Of course that wasn't the case. Let's remember what we really had at receiver for significant stretches.

    Dedric Ward

    jj stokes

    Bethel Johnson

    Andre Davis

    Tim Dwight

    Our 4 new guys looking a little better now? With 6 more games left?
     
  7. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is it October again? Are we still trying to pin the blame on the receivers? Hasn't that gotten old?

    Don't hold your breath.
     
  8. kptmorgan04

    kptmorgan04 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    All I was saying is that if he continues what he has been doing he wont be one to all of the sudden come on strong in the playoffs. so no I am not holding my breath. thanks for making sure I keep on breathing though
     
  9. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's a cutoff line in the late-season where, if a player isn't performing well by then, he can't perform well in the playoffs?
     
  10. kptmorgan04

    kptmorgan04 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    In my opinion for a rookie WR yes. you may not agree, but I do not think that he will be able to just turn it on and develop trust in brady come playoff time if he doesnt do so in the next few games. The only player in general that I can remember doing so in the brady/BB era was Wiggins.
    As BB has been saying as of late, he has been improving and I hope for the sake of the offense and some explosviness that he continues on that path before the playoffs start.
    But all I was saying in my inital post is that yes the time is now to fairfly judge the team in these next 1-3 weeks to see if we have what it takes to go deep into the playoffs.
     
  11. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    J6Pat,


    I get awfully tired of people demanding that Rome be built in a Day! This team is a glass almost full not a little little bit empty.

    Just when will you admit that this edition of the Patriots has come a very long way? Of the Belichick coached Patriot's teams:

    There has NEVER BEEN a Patriots club yeilding as few as 13.1 ppg !

    There has ONLY BEEN one SB club with an offense scoring more than 23.6 ppg !!

    There has NEVER BEEN a Patriots team that had a point differential as wide as 10.5 ppg !!!

    The highest scoring club averaged only 24.1 ppg and less than half a point per game. How many scores did we choose not to run up this year? At least three chippie FGs that the Pats eschewed to take a victory knee? That covers that half point scoring differential. That 24.1 ppg team gave up just under 17 ppg, with a differential of barely over 7 ppg; not the 10.5 ppg differential of this team.

    Here are a couple of other notable firsts for this club.

    There has never been a Pats team that held running games to under 85 ypg, except this one, and its almost 10 yards a game better than that, at 76 ypg.

    There has never been a Pats defense to accumulate 44 sacks per season. That is the projected rate for this team.



    BTW... with the placing of JOSH Miller on IR, the Patriots now have 10 players on IR or PUP, equaling our SB clubs of 2003 and 2004. There has never been ANY Playoff clubs other than the Patriots with as many as 10 players on IR, if I remember the bally hoo from 2004...

    With these omens, the rest of the League ought to REALLY fear us NOW.
     
  12. vyrago

    vyrago 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    >>With your rosey colored hindsight glasses, you probably remember Deion and Givens being healthy all the time.

    And catching every ball thrown to them.

    I seem to remember Givens bungling a very catchable ball in Denver in the playoffs last year, but that's probably just me.
     
  13. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I'd have to say the offense's slow downs IMO are attributed to McDaniels. Now I'm hoping Vinny Test. has an influence over this real soon. The plays seem to predictable. The offensive plays do not seem to cause confusion on the defense and result in blown coverages. They do not put alot of guys in motion to cuase confusion. This could be helpful to Jackson if they put him in motion.

    They don't really send people deep alot to just pull the cb's and safeties back to open the underneath. The Vikings game revealed alot of underneath routes. I haven't seen a screen in weeks and they never do delayed draws. Trent Green was doing awesom delayed draws with LJ last night. Maroney would prosper with a couple of those a game and that would lead to play action also.

    One thing I also noticed last week with Maroney on one play was a stretch play that ended with him running to the sideline for a 2 yard gain. The replay revealed a momentary hole he could have cut right up for at least 5-7 yards. Hopefully he will get better with this.

    I'd love to see more:
    1. Wr's or Te's in motion at the snap
    2. Screens
    3. Delayed Draws
    4. Get agressive when there is one on one coverage on deep routes.
    5. In the next blow out, give Willie Andrews a chance to return a punt.
    6. I'm not a big fan of their power package with 2 te's that bunches everything into the line of scrimmage and they try to run.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  14. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't care who the WR's are or the DB's or LB's any other players at different positions are. The Patriots need to beat the Bears and go on a roll into the playoffs if there's any intent of winning a 4th Lombardi. I don't care what Branch or Givens has done for other teams. It has no bearing on how this years Patriots team will or won't do. IMO, the roll into the playoffs needs to start with da Bears to show, for themselves as much as anyone, they can beat a team with a winning record, at home. The Bears are the best team in the NFC which would put them around 4th or 5th in the AFC although the Bronco's look to be starting thier annual late season swoon.
    No more excuses are acceptable, not injuries, new players(10 games is long enough), new coaches, new field, Brady's shoulder or any other excuse. The Patriots would still make the playoffs, and IMO, lose there on some round, if they don't get on a roll starting now.
     
  15. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again - since when does the Patriots' playoff games have any bearing on what they do in the next 2 or 3 games? If they lose against the Bears, the opposing team in the playoffs doesn't suddenly get a 7-point head-start.

    Let's wait until the cold January weekends come to judge this team.

    I don't buy into the whole "on a roll thing." The Patriots were "on a roll" before both of their loses in 2004, one to a team of an exact opposite record. Another came after the Pats' undefeated December in 2005 and a first-round blowout (Miami game notwithstanding).

    The playoffs are a second season. For the Pats, the immediate goal is to wrap up the division title. Whether that's done with wins in the next few weeks or the few weeks after, or both, doesn't matter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  16. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    You and NEM should compare notes on current meds.
     
  17. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    The playoffs are a second season. For the Pats, the immediate goal is to wrap up the division title. Whether that's done with wins in the next few weeks or the few weeks after, or both, doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]

    * If the Patriots don't beat the Bears and go into the playoffs on a roll, the won't win the SB. What happaned in 2004 or any other year has no bearing ob this year either. I wish we could bet -:)
     
  18. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK, thanks for enlightening me.

    I wasn't aware that every point the Bears score this week gets applied exponentially to the score of the next week's game, eventually giving the Pats too large of a deficit in the Super Bowl to overcome. I apologize.

    And thank you for proving my point. What "happaned" (sic) in the past has no bearing in the future. How then, could the result of this weekend's game, besides the obvious fact of securing a playoff spot, have any bearing on how the Pats perform in completely separate playoff games?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2006
  19. patpatriot

    patpatriot Banned

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    pats1, comon...stop being a Scootch. Even Brady has admitted that they need to get on a roll *now*. They won't slip n' slide their way to the Show! They will have to beat *good* teams. Now's the time to start. What makes you think that if the Pats can't do it in November. they willl magicaly be able to do it in the playoffs? Crazy thinking!
     
  20. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Apology accepted.

    Surely you must realize that if we lose to the Bears we cannot win the Superbowl. What's wrong with you?

    It isn't just the loss, it is what will likely happen after and because of the loss. BB will want to shake things up a bit and will do something dumb just to get the team's attention. The dumbest thing would be to activate Patrick Pass. So Pass is on the team, and every time he gets an owie he throws the ball to the ground and starts to cry. We get an early exit from the playoffs (the first post season game we play in which Pass is active we will lose) and we don't even make it to the Superbowl.

    It's pretty obvious.
     
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