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Can a pass rush mask the deficiencies of Patriots secondary?


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Soul_Survivor88

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“They [the secondary] make it easier. Whenever a quarterback’s first read is taken away, and with the athletes we have up front rushing the quarterback, he’s not going to have a lot of time to really find the second read and get a good throw off. By the time he does that we’re in his face, getting pressure on him, and the guys in the back end, they’re covering really well. It works hand in hand.”
-- Akeem Ayers


If the Patriots are able to create a formidable defensive line at the core of their defense, will the downgraded secondary have a new lifeline to rely on?

I’m of the belief that a secondary can only be as effective as the rest of the defense. The combination of a great pass rush and adequate downfield coverage is what creates a successful pass defense. The better the front seven, the easier it is to play in the secondary. And by getting superior play from interior linemen and improving the edges of their defensive line, I believe the Patriots will still have a quality defense to sustain them in the season.

Being aggressive against the pocket is important for a few reasons: It forces the quarterback to speed up his progressions into tighter windows, and it disrupts his connection with receivers by forcing him out of his natural rhythm and limiting his vision. But the additional benefit is that by putting all the pressure on the quarterback, the defensive lineman actually takes pressure off the secondary. For instance, if the lineman can pressure the quarterback into throwing the ball to his first look, the secondary will not have to cover for as long and can play tighter coverage. But if less talented cornerbacks are going to remain effective in the scheme, players up front need to dominate the line of scrimmage and restrict the amount of time the quarterback has to connect with his receivers. Or else, the quarterback will have an easier time picking apart the secondary.

The best cornerbacks in the world will tell you that a strong pass rush helps them immensely. Modern-day NFL offenses are simply too complicated to expect corners and safeties to cover receivers for longer than 5 seconds. If you put three receivers out on routes against three cornerbacks, the quarterback will likely find one of his receivers in a span of five or more seconds. If given enough time, at least one of those receivers will gain separation and create a window of opportunity for the quarterback to complete a pass. Even if coverage is tight, the quarterback is still free to make a play either with his legs, by handing off to the RB, or by passing to a fourth target on the field (a TE, RB, or a WR in a four-set formation). This assumes that those three all-star cornerbacks will be able to stay in coverage for much longer than what is normally the case.

But an aggressive front seven changes all of this. If met with a fierce pass rush, the quarterback is limited in time and cannot make all of his reads. And if forced to move around in the pocket, he cannot establish a rhythm with his receivers. A quarterback can still throw into tight coverage, but he has a much harder time seeing anyone or being even remotely accurate. As much as the ‘Legion of Boom’ is often credited with success, the Seahawks have always had to make life tough for the quarterback first by using their defensive linemen. That is what allows the secondary to play at an incredibly efficient level and live up to its reputation.

Looking at it another way, you can also ask yourself: what has a greater impact on each other? Does a great secondary make your pass rush look better, or does a great pass rush make your secondary look better? In How Baltimore’s Front Seven Masks Its Depleted Secondary, Robert Mays answers this question by describing how the Ravens’ defense succeeded against elite quarterbacks, despite having a depleted secondary riddled with injuries. After a slow start in the season, the Raven figured out how to rebuild their defense around a collection of run-stuffers and terrifying pass-rushers, who were able to generate pressure up front by disrupting pass plays and taking advantage of collapsing pockets. What the Ravens showed is that through a combination of front-line depth, talent, and scheme, a superior defensive line can slow down any offense.
 
As far as I have seen, whether it is a 3-4 or 4-3, the Pats play a read and react front 7 the vast majority of the time in non obvious passing situations. A lot of gap discipline rather than an emphasis on penetration at the snap of the ball. That's the opposite of the style you are recommending. I would love a shift to a more aggressive style up front, and maybe a guy like Easley up front indicates it's in the works but I'll believe it when I see it. Teams like Baltimore and the NY Giants play more of an attacking style whether in 3-4 or 4-3. I think we're more likely to see more of the 201o-2012 bend but don't break.
 
As far as I have seen, whether it is a 3-4 or 4-3, the Pats play a read and react front 7 the vast majority of the time in non obvious passing situations. A lot of gap discipline rather than an emphasis on penetration at the snap of the ball. That's the opposite of the style you are recommending. I would love a shift to a more aggressive style up front, and maybe a guy like Easley up front indicates it's in the works but I'll believe it when I see it. Teams like Baltimore and the NY Giants play more of an attacking style whether in 3-4 or 4-3. I think we're more likely to see more of the 201o-2012 bend but don't break.

@skinnydog Do you think we have the personnel right now to dial up the pass rush?
 
Yes, release the hounds of war! But yes. Easley really fits that mold and even Brown the new pick who looks like a Wilfork replacement, can penetrate up the middle at least from what I saw from a coup,e games and pre-draft clips. Chris Jones can play that style as well. On the edge Jones certainly can as can Sheard. Several of the middle and late round picks should be able to do so off the edge as well, so I think so and would love to see it.
 
The short answer is no. Everyone hopes a strong rush can mask a weak secondary but the good teams will exploit it (weak secondary). There are always teams that will match up well against you and if you're vulnerable, they'll exploit it... not every team will be able to exploit the weakness but better teams will. A strong rush will help with bad qbs but the secondary will be an issue with good qbs....the secondary is going to have to find a way to be better than they were for the few years before last year or they'll get exploited in the playoffs like they have.
 
probably not
 
The two corners were HUGE to our success last year...hindsight we could have locked up Revis for four years a year ago.... I feel we are in for a transition year... but with our staff that still means eleven wins and at least an AFC title game appearance (usually)....

I feel personally we will take a step back, survey, then make two steps forward next year..
 
The short answer is no. Everyone hopes a strong rush can mask a weak secondary but the good teams will exploit it (weak secondary). There are always teams that will match up well against you and if you're vulnerable, they'll exploit it... not every team will be able to exploit the weakness but better teams will. A strong rush will help with bad qbs but the secondary will be an issue with good qbs....the secondary is going to have to find a way to be better than they were for the few years before last year or they'll get exploited in the playoffs like they have.

Actually a team with a dominant front 7 and a weak secondary can shut down a good quarterback, an example of this would be in the game that shall never be mentioned (damn me for mentioning it). The Giants secondary was poo but that front 7 (their front 4 more specifically) was raining fire and brimstone on our poor Tommy.
 
The two corners were HUGE to our success last year...hindsight we could have locked up Revis for four years a year ago.... I feel we are in for a transition year... but with our staff that still means eleven wins and at least an AFC title game appearance (usually)....

I feel personally we will take a step back, survey, then make two steps forward next year..
This is not a transition year. The Patriots started their transition stage back in 2009. Hell, last years Super Bowl team was the youngest Super Bowl winning team ever. If anything, we're looking for another dynastic run, a run that started last year.
 
While our front 4 is not as good as the Giants. When we're in our 4-2-5. Collins or Hightower blitzing the A gap will create a lot of one on one matchups for the Front 4. The OL has to scheme to stop that blitz. Even if it doesn't come. Fake it. Step out. I think the defense matches up well with the run-heavy teams. Especially, our division. Not sure how the secondary will hold up against the Mannings, Romo, Roethlisberger and Luck.
 
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Another thing on the OP, in 2003 the Patriots had an all time secondary with Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, Eugene Wilson, and Tyrone Poole (Rodney and Ty Law were both All Pros). Next year our secondary gets so depleted that Bill had to stick Troy Brown at nickelback. The Pats front 7 was still such a force that they finished top 2 in Points Allowed.

An NFL defense doesn't need a great secondary to perform well if the front 7 is up to par.
 
While our front 4 is not as good as the Giants. When we're in our 4-2-5. Collins or Hightower blitzing the A gap will create a lot of one on one matchups for the Front 4. The OL has to scheme to stop that blitz. Even if it doesn't come. Fake it. Step out. I think the defense matches up well with the run-heavy teams. Especially, our division. Not sure how the secondary will hold up against the Mannings, Romo, Roethlisberger and Luck.

Another thing on Hightower, before Mayo got injured last year he was being used more an outside rush linebacker and he was causing havoc. With Mayo back, Bill can get even more creative on how he uses both Hightower and Collins to generate pressure.
 
This is not a transition year. The Patriots started their transition stage back in 2009. Hell, last years Super Bowl team was the youngest Super Bowl winning team ever. If anything, we're looking for another dynastic run, a run that started last year.
It's a totally new scheme on defense.. the only TRUE advantage we have over the rest of the division(which improved drastically, at least paper wise) is coaching and qb...which I agree could be enough... but TB facing up to eight games says transition(because another qb is learning).... again (if you read my post) that means at least eleven wins... throw in the jets and bills now having a hard on for each other it takes some of the intensity away for them gearing up to play a TBless team... we could be the first champions that are sleeping giants..
 
It's a totally new scheme on defense.. the only TRUE advantage we have over the rest of the division(which improved drastically, at least paper wise) is coaching and qb...which I agree could be enough... but TB facing up to eight games says transition(because another qb is learning).... again (if you read my post) that means at least eleven wins... throw in the jets and bills now having a hard on for each other it takes some of the intensity away for them gearing up to play a TBless team... we could be the first champions that are sleeping giants..
A new defensive scheme =/= a new transitional period.

Tom Brady isn't gonna miss 8 games.

I repeat, this isn't a new transitional period. The Patriots started their transitional period in 2009. Since then the Patriots have nearly completely turned over there entire roster. Here are the players we still have since the transitional period began:

Tom Brady
Julian Edelman
Matthew Slater
Sebastian Vollmer
Ryan Wendell
Jerod Mayo
Ninkovrabel
Pat Chung
Steven Gostowski

83% of the roster has turned over since then. Again, the Patriots have already went through their transitional phase.
 
A new defensive scheme =/= a new transitional period.

Tom Brady isn't gonna miss 8 games.

I repeat, this isn't a new transitional period. The Patriots started their transitional period in 2009. Since then the Patriots have nearly completely turned over there entire roster. Here are the players we still have since the transitional period began:

Tom Brady
Julian Edelman
Matthew Slater
Sebastian Vollmer
Ryan Wendell
Jerod Mayo
Ninkovrabel
Pat Chung
Steven Gostowski

83% of the roster has turned over since then. Again, the Patriots have already went through their transitional phase.
I say it is... every team goes through three a decade... you know the suspension??? You work in the NFL offices?? give us the scoop...
 
I say it is...
The Patriots don't go through transitional periods just because you declare they do. This statement is irrelevant.
every team goes through three a decade...
You have absolutely no evidence to support this. This statement is irrelevant.

you know the suspension??? You work in the NFL offices?? give us the scoop...
You know the NFLPA???
You know about the appeal process???
You know the NFL has been getting their asses handed to them by the NFLPA for the past few years???

The answer is obviously a no to each question.
 
The Patriots don't go through transitional periods just because you declare they do. This statement is irrelevant.

You have absolutely no evidence to support this. This statement is irrelevant.


You know the NFLPA???
You know about the appeal process???
You know the NFL has been getting their asses handed to them by the NFLPA for the past few years???

The answer is obviously a no to each question.
Again... you have your opinion.. I have mine... I know a suspension is being handed down.. and I know it is going to be appealed... four to eight weeks is the formula most use.. I tend to be pessimistic because I thought the issue was going to be buried like the jets tampering charge....
 
Again... you have your opinion.. I have mine... I know a suspension is being handed down.. and I know it is going to be appealed... four to eight weeks is the formula most use.. I tend to be pessimistic because I thought the issue was going to be buried like the jets tampering charge....
That's where you are messing up, you're putting so much weight on opinion. Opinions aren't worth **** at all in this situation. Only facts matter, And the facts state that the Pats aren't going through a transitional period. That's it. There's nothing left to say because the facts have already said them.
 
That's where you are messing up, you're putting so much weight on opinion. Opinions aren't worth **** at all in this situation. Only facts matter, And the facts state that the Pats aren't going through a transitional period. That's it. There's nothing left to say because the facts have already said them.
Why do you insist I agree with your OPINION??
 
No, not really. Not when facing the better teams.
 
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