Butch Stearns: Pats close to Ty Law deal; Law prefers Pats over Jets

[pats1]

Re: Butch Stearns: Pats close to Ty Law deal

Really? I don't think so. I don't believe that Bryant has a job locked up. And, in all honesty, neither would Law, if he does actually re-sign with the Pats.

With all the one year deals, the Pats have a lot of competition that they can easily cut without much of a penalty.

Its going to be a very tough training camp for guys like Law, Bryant and Webster as well as Richardson. And, while Law, Bryant and Webster are all Vets, they all have something to prove and could easily be beaten out if they are lax about their preparation.

Richardson is a 6th-round draft pick who hasn't played a snap in the NFL. He wouldn't have made the team last year if he didn't get hurt. He was a third-string cornerback who only saw more time in camp because Samuel was out. The Patriots drafted Kareem Brown, Clint Oldenburg, and Justin Rogers before him in the draft.

I'm not saying that Richardson can't win a spot. But Hobbs and Bryant are starting-quality NFL cornerbacks. Richardson is a late round draft pick who at most will make an impact on special teams this season. And that's only if he makes the roster. Richarson will battle guys like Andrews, Ventrone, and Lewis Sanders for back-end roster spots. Hobbs, Bryant, Webster, and hopefully Law will battle for starting jobs.

There's a big difference.

He wasn't really in competition for major playing time last summer. I don't see what he's done since then to earn such a right.

My take on Richardson is that he came in with Oldenburg, Brown, Rogers, Hilliard, Elgin, and Lua, who were all looking for the 52nd/53rd spots on the roster. He showed a little more than the others in camp, causing him to suddenly shoot up in value in the minds of fans. He gets lucky and gets hurt (otherwise he'd be on the street), stays around for the season, and is all of the sudden in a position to compete with Hobbs and Bryant this summer.

I just don't get it. We wouldn't be saying this about Gemara Williams, Ray Ventrone, Willie Andrews, Antwain Spann, or Tim Mixon, all of whom are roughly in the same roster bracket as Richardson. What makes Richardson so special? The fact that we haven't seen him in any games, and he's still in Foxboro, so therefore he must be good when he finally hits the field? We've seen what all those other guys can do, and weren't blown away. But we haven't seen Richardson that much, so there's still that mystery about him.

 

[Grizzafted]

Negative. Read the thread; he's 34.

I thought so, that didn't make any sense...

Still, 34 is old for a guy who's got to have a lot of footwork on every down. My understanding was that Law got burnt a lot over the past few years, but still has a sense for getting picks at crucial times. He definitely won't hurt but it's hard for me to believe this is any kind of solution for a secondary that feels pretty thin.

 

[pats1]

I thought so, that didn't make any sense...

Still, 34 is old for a guy who's got to have a lot of footwork on every down. My understanding was that Law got burnt a lot over the past few years, but still has a sense for getting picks at crucial times. He definitely won't hurt but it's hard for me to believe this is any kind of solution for a secondary that feels pretty thin.

Then I'm not sure of what kind of solution you're looking for then. Can you elaborate?

(Under your scenario, it seems like only Samuel would have been an apt solution.)

Worry not, though. The draft will give the Pats another 2-3 players to work with in the secondary. It's really not that thin now, and it certainly won't be in a few days. It just lacks the the certainty of clear-cut starters, so that's where I think you're getting your feeling from.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Butch Stearns: Pats close to Ty Law deal

Richardson is a 6th-round draft pick who hasn't played a snap in the NFL. He wouldn't have made the team last year if he didn't get hurt. He was a third-string cornerback who only saw more time in camp because Samuel was out. The Patriots drafted Kareem Brown, Clint Oldenburg, and Justin Rogers before him in the draft.

Richardson was a 6th round draft pick who was turning heads with his coverage skills of Randy Moss during training camp. Richardson was 2nd string before he got hurt last year and getting plenty of reps ahead of Randall Gay.

I think its hilarious that you, of all people, think that where a person was drafted means a damn thing as to what they will accomplish in this league. Especially with the likes of Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich, Chris Canty, Adalius Thomas, Tom Brady, Terrell Davis and Troy Brown have done.

I'm not saying that Richardson can't win a spot. But Hobbs and Bryant are starting-quality NFL cornerbacks. Richardson is a late round draft pick who at most will make an impact on special teams this season. And that's only if he makes the roster. Richarson will battle guys like Andrews, Ventrone, and Lewis Sanders for back-end roster spots. Hobbs, Bryant, Webster, and hopefully Law will battle for starting jobs.

There's a big difference.

Bryant, Webster and Law may or may not be starting quality anymore. I think that Bryant and Webster would have gotten more than 1 year "Prove it" deals if BB felt 100% confident that they'd be contending for the starting positions.

I think that you give Webster and Bryant way too much credit and discount what Richardson showed in TC last year way too much.

I think that Richardson showed enough that he could push for the #3 job.

He wasn't really in competition for major playing time last summer. I don't see what he's done since then to earn such a right.

My take on Richardson is that he came in with Oldenburg, Brown, Rogers, Hilliard, Elgin, and Lua, who were all looking for the 52nd/53rd spots on the roster. He showed a little more than the others in camp, causing him to suddenly shoot up in value in the minds of fans. He gets lucky and gets hurt (otherwise he'd be on the street), stays around for the season, and is all of the sudden in a position to compete with Hobbs and Bryant this summer.

I just don't get it. We wouldn't be saying this about Gemara Williams, Ray Ventrone, Willie Andrews, Antwain Spann, or Tim Mixon. What makes Richardson so special? The fact that we haven't seen him in any games, and he's still in Foxboro, so therefore he must be good when he finally hits the field?

 

[primetime]

Re: Butch Stearns: Pats close to Ty Law deal

I just don't get it. We wouldn't be saying this about Gemara Williams, Ray Ventrone, Willie Andrews, Antwain Spann, or Tim Mixon, all of whom are roughly in the same roster bracket as Richardson. What makes Richardson so special? The fact that we haven't seen him in any games, and he's still in Foxboro, so therefore he must be good when he finally hits the field? We've seen what all those other guys can do, and weren't blown away. But we haven't seen Richardson that much, so there's still that mystery about him.

Whew, someone with some perspective, finally. I've been chuckling at all the Richardson love since day one. For some reason, a guy has a couple good games in the preseason then got injured and now he's ready to challenge for a starting spot on the New England Patriots? The Brady phenomenon has gripped this fanbase in full force. Some of you guys think everyone the Patriots take in a later round has some supreme talent but simply went unnoticed by other front offices and the Patriots managed to snag this unknown superstar. Sorry, but the vast majority of these guys simply aren't starting-caliber NFL talents. Maybe you get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle. But in all reality, for every Tully Banta-Cain there's five Spencer Neads.

 

[pats1]

Re: Butch Stearns: Pats close to Ty Law deal

Richardson was a 6th round draft pick who was turning heads with his coverage skills of Randy Moss during training camp. Richardson was 2nd string before he got hurt last year and getting plenty of reps ahead of Randall Gay.

So you're taking that small of sample size and extrapolating it into a statement that he's in the same league as Hobbs and Bryant. Sorry, I just can't see that. I'm not willing to form that strong an opinion based off a handful of training camp reports and some snaps in the preseason.

I think its hilarious that you, of all people, think that where a person was drafted means a damn thing as to what they will accomplish in this league. Especially with the likes of Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich, Chris Canty, Adalius Thomas, Tom Brady, Terrell Davis and Troy Brown have done.

Well, I'm a little surprised myself that you're willing to draw the conclusion that Richardson is on the same level of competition as Hobbs and Bryant. Richardson's performance of last training camp has already been cashed in: he is still on the roster. His performance separated him above the guys that were off the roster on the first cut-down. His performance puts him in the same group as the back-end roster guys from last season -- Andrews, Ventrone, and Spann. His performance does NOT accelerate him ahead of any of those players. There's no way you can say that based a few training camp practices and preseason games. If he wants to compete for a starting job on a Belichick-coached team, he'll have to earn the opportunity first. And when Belichick and Pioli sit down with Richardson this summer and talk about their perceived role for him on this football team this season, I can assure you that there will be a lot more "special teams" than there will be "nickel back" or "starting cornerback."

As far as draft status goes, refer to primetime's post above. The whole "Tom Brady, 6th round pick" game just doesn't fly with me. If Richardson was perceived to have starting value in the NFL, he would have gone much earlier in the draft. Just give a good look at the Patriots late-round picks in the past few years:

5th - Clint Oldenburg, Ryan O'Callaghan, Ryan Claridge, P.K. Sam, Dan Koppen, Hakim Akbar, Dave Stachelwski, Jeff Marriott
6th - Justin Rogers, Mike Richardson, Justise Hairston, Corey Hilliard, Jeremy Mincey, Dan Stevenson, L.K. Smith, Kliff Kingsbury, Arther Love, Leonard Myers, Antwan Harris, Tom Brady, David Nugent
7th - Oscar Lua, Mike Elgin, Matt Cassel, Andy Stokes, Christian Morton, Spencer Nead, Tully Banta-Cain, Ethan Kelley, Antwoine Womack, David Givens, Owen Pochman, T.J. Turner, Casey Tisdale, Patrick Pass

Don't you see? They were drafted to be back-end roster guys at best, contributing almost exclusively on special teams. Many of them did not make the roster. Some of them performed well in their special teams roles for a few years before moving up the ladder.

But none -- NONE -- of them were drafted in the 6th round, had some good reps in their first camps, spent the season on the IR, and magically became starting-quality players in their second year. Because 99% of the time (save for Brady, and Givens and Koppen to some extent), that's just not how it works. Teams don't draft guys in the late rounds to fill starting positions the same year or even the next. They are role players, and that's what Richardson will be until he can prove otherwise. He has yet to do so.

Bryant, Webster and Law may or may not be starting quality anymore. I think that Bryant and Webster would have gotten more than 1 year "Prove it" deals if BB felt 100% confident that they'd be contending for the starting positions.

Like it or not, one, or possibly two of them are going to be starting cornerbacks on this team. It's absurd, really, to think that Belichick is going to leave the road open for an unproven 6th-round pick to come in and start for an NFL team, all the while leaving proven veterans in the dust.

They signed veteran minimum contracts because that's all they had out there. Webster and Bryant are starting-quality players, but some of the worst in the league.

I think that you give Webster and Bryant way too much credit and discount what Richardson showed in TC last year way too much.

What a novel concept, eh? Bryant and Webster have both been in the NFL for 8 years, starting for a good number of those.

Why would I EVER want to give them credit over a second-year player who practiced well in July and hasn't seen an NFL regular season snap yet.

Sheesh. What a crazy idea.

I think that Richardson showed enough that he could push for the #3 job.

If Richardson showed enough in two weeks of training camp to do that, then Patrick Cobbs should be the starting running back on the New England Patriots in 2008. Remember Cobbs? The training camp and preseason wonder? He's third on the 1-15 Miami Dolphins' depth chart right now. Some potential. You didn't see Belichick handing Cobbs the starting RB job in 2006 -- nor was Cobbs even close to competing with Maroney and Faulk to any stretch of the imagination.

You see, there are two clear-cut groups of competition as of right now in the secondary. In general, early round draft picks will be added to the first group, while later round picks will be added to the second:

"The Starters/Key Reserves:" Rodney Harrison, (Ty Law), James Sanders, Ellis Hobbs, Brandon Meriweather, Fernando Bryant, Jason Webster, Tank Williams.

"The Special Teamers/Back-End Roster Guys:" Willie Andrews, Lewis Sanders, Mike Richardson, Ray Ventrone, Antwain Spann, Tim Mixon.

...Look, I have nothing against Richardson. I was even one of those last summer promoting the guy and his abilities. Still, I in no way, shape, or form believe that he is on the same level as Bryant, Hobbs, or Webster. Nor do I believe that he has bypassed the stage of fighting for a special teams roster spot.

 

[pats1]

But really. This thread is about Ty Law. I have better things to do right now than argue over the potential of a 6th-rounder who will have to fight to make this football team this season.

 

[bigdgp]

But really. This thread is about Ty Law. I have better things to do right now than argue over the potential of a 6th-rounder who will have to fight to make this football team this season.

You have 9200+ posts and DaBruinz has 8800+. Neither one of you has anything better to do than argue over speculative circumstances of a sporting team team that you have no control, no hands on experience of, and no insider knowledge about...

 

[mcsully]

To lazy to read the girl fight above between two people who have way to much time to have over 8000 posts.


BUT I must say Richardson played extremly well during the preseason.. Just like R. Gay..
I'm lookin forward to RIchardson play this season


And just a fun fact.. Last time we had a late draft pick from ND join this team, he helped us win a couple of Super Bowls.. (givens)

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

And here I thought that this was a forum where people presented and debated their opinions. Silly me.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Butch Stearns: Pats close to Ty Law deal

Saying a player is unlikely to make the team because he hasn't play a snap makes no sense at all. Richardson may or may not make the team, but whether he does or does not it will have nothing to do with his not playing a snap in the NFL. It will be because of his production, potential, value, or other similar abilities/attributes, not his snap count.

That said, I really enjoyed the original title to this thread, about Ty Law preferring the Pats to the Jets. Ty Law will prefer the team that offers him the most money. If the Jets offered a single penny more than the Pats, Law would prefer them.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Butch Stearns: Pats close to Ty Law deal

You're crazy.

Call me crazy, but I am oddly comfortable with Hobbs, Bryant, Richardson, and a draft pick or three. I wouldn't say no to Ty Law, but I don't think he's as needed as we all thought back in February.

 

[captain stone]

You have 9200+ posts and DaBruinz has 8800+. Neither one of you has anything better to do than argue over speculative circumstances of a sporting team team that you have no control, no hands on experience of, and no insider knowledge about...

Then why are you here?

It's a shame that such a well-researched, well-written (and correct, IMHO) post from Pats1 has apparently been wasted on you.

 

[captain stone]

To lazy to read the girl fight above between two people who have way to much time to have over 8000 posts.


BUT I must say Richardson played extremly well during the preseason.. Just like R. Gay..
I'm lookin forward to RIchardson play this season


And just a fun fact.. Last time we had a late draft pick from ND join this team, he helped us win a couple of Super Bowls.. (givens)

How is the exchange of thought, opinion and ideas between DaBruinz and Pats1 a "girlfight"? I don't get it.

And BTW...Last time we had a late draft pick from ND was Dan Stevenson, and he didn't help us win jack squat.

 

[Kdo5]

Richardson is nobody. He will forever be a nobody unless he somehow scrapes a spot on the 53. Why act like he is special when there is barely anything to know about him?