Bradley Fletcher signing with Pats

[primetime]

Absolutely hate the people that use PFF as their main argument.

The problem is there really isn't any other resource for grading of individual players. PFF is fine if you ignore the numbers as numbers and take them as opinions and suggestions (was this guy good, bad, in between) of a player's performance, and recognize that they're going to add some narrative which will affect their grading. It comes with a ton of caveats, but it's no better or worse than most other analysis. Just don't fall into the trap where you pretend it's scientific or quantitative and you're fine.

 

[Ivan]

Who's talking him up? BB obviously sees something in the guy. Seems like instead of reflexively bemoaning the signing some are trying to divine what that is.

Yep. All I have seen is people quoting Pro Football Focus like it was the Bible and trashing the signing.

 

[Sicilian]

At least Rex is an extraordinary defensive coach. Based on DVOA and expected points, the Eagles were a middling offense last season who turned the ball over at an extraordinary rate.

He's good, but the fact remains that after the first two seasons in NY, the best his defense ever ranked in points allowed was 19th (and was usually in the mid 20's). Some of that is not having a good offense, but I have a hard time saying a guy is an extraordinary defensive coach when his defenses consistently allow points.

I think he gets talked up a bit on this board because he has sometimes given our offense a tough time, but just about every divisional team (regardless of the coach) has done that before too.

 

[FibSeq13478]

Maybe Bill is so incompetent that he will watch him suck in camp, and then just play him as CB1 anyway for a laugh, and in doing so, prove we should have tried to get Harbough before he went to Michigan?

Let's just see how things go. i remember the amount of people who were on suicide watch when Chung came back from Philly. That went OK in the end!

I also remember posters here losing their mind over Talib signing because he had been burned by Hakeem Nicks for 3 touchdowns earlier in the season.

 

[PatsGuy]

1. 
   James Christensen @NEPatriotsDraft
   I think Patriots fans will be surprised in a good way by Fletcher. He is much better than he showed in PHI last year.

A good friend who follows the Eagles closely texted me. He said everyone there nicknamed him "toast"

 

[Gronkowski123]

fletcher is garbage. it's a fact...

from revis and browner to bradley fletcher. belichick's lucky he has tb12.

 

[Tunescribe]

Awesome! Fletcher and Chekwa, the new Revis and Browner!

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

Camp body. This guy is really bad. My fraternity brother is a huge eagles fan and he is happy that he is not on the eagles anymore

 

[captain stone]

I'm okay with the move. Still in his 20's, I think he has some talent and needs better coaching. I don't think he's gonna be awesome, but he could hopefully turn out to be decent. I'm guessing the money is pretty low.

Sadly for all of us, the money is not low, at all, according to Adam Caplan.
3rd-worst signing for Pats, so far, behind only the Branch & Cannon extensions, though worse - but not
by much - than the Scott (I'd rather have James Casey) Chandler deal.

 

[kennyb]

He may have POTENTIAL. That's how you buy low. Everyone has written him off for nothing. Sign him, coach him up, if he works, you have a bargain.

A la CHUNG.

Or maybe he was in the wrong scheme in Philly.

Whatever 2.5M and much of that is probably incentives. Probably vet min + incentives and no SB money. So no real risk.

 

[JackBauer]

I think PFF sucks as well. But when a CB has multiple memes, gives up the most yards in the league, and multiple sites rank him as one of the worst FA CBs available, there you have it.

Chandler was a great value signing. Sheard was a steal. This one sucks.

Only if you believe 2014 is representative of Fletcher's capability. 2012-13 suggest he's capable of being a serviceable player.

The last defensive back we got from Philly looked like a steaming pile of crap the year before we signed him too. Not saying this will go the same way, but there might be something more to it.

 

[TomPatriot]

An "0pen up" corner.

Seriously, special teams and 5th CB at best, if he makes the team. I like Chewka more but we'll see.

 

[primetime]

I think the biggest problem with PFF is that they try to quantify the unquantifiable, and that in itself wouldn't be as bad if people didn't reference that false logic as anything more than a guess.

They don't even really quantify the unquantifiable. Their numbers are just tricks that conjure up a mathematical mystique to disguise a qualitative analysis.

The best analogy to PFF is this: a 90 on an English essay isn't quantifying anything, it's just an arbitrary numeric representation of the grader's opinion about your paper, which can be affected by any number of factors including whether the grader agrees with your thesis, whether they're having a bad day, whether they like or don't like you, and so on.

The difference between a 90 and an 85 on an English paper is totally arbitrary, versus, say, the difference between a 90 and an 85 on a 20 question multiple choice math test where each question is worth exactly 5 points. Then the difference between a 90 and 85 represents one correct answer.

Once you recognize what PFF's doing here, you realize it's no different than anyone else doing a "performance review" of a player, similar to Reiss's 3 up, 3 down. The positive side of PFF is that they watch every player and grade every single player, which is more than most analytical websites. If they stopped there and just provided a qualitative critique of each player, I think they'd be much more valued.

The problem is they go the extra step and try to turn that qualitative critique into numbers to make believe they're doing "metrics" and that's where you get a lot of the skepticism. There doesn't appear to be any rationalized system of grading, and the difference between a +3 and a +4, for example, is totally opaque. And I expect the reason for that is that it's totally arbitrary, like the aforementioned English test.

If you can turn their grades back into vague representations of a player's performance (that is, a +4 represents a "good performance" or whatever) then PFF is fine. Of course, this still loses a lot - they graded Browner on the whole fairly poorly, but anyone who watched Browner knows there's a reason for this: against some receivers he's a total shutdown corner, and against others he's toast. You lose that nuance when you try to turn a qualitative performance review into an arbitrary grade.

 

[captain stone]

Fletcher's basically the personification of this

That said, there had been a distinct lack of former Rams in this year's free agent class so I'm glad we checked that box. Already got the Rutgers guy.

Don't forget ex-Dolphins (and before that, ex-Rams) WR Brandon Gibson.

 

[50-yard-line]

Sadly for all of us, the money is not low, at all, according to Adam Caplan.
3rd-worst signing for Pats, so far, behind only the Branch & Cannon extensions, though worse - but not
by much - than the Scott (I'd rather have James Casey) Chandler deal.

Not sure what your problem with the Branch and Cannon extensions are. Branch played well last year and Cannon is a solid backup tackle. Neither got big money.

And Chandler? Well, for a mere 18 million more, we could have had Charles Clay for the next two years. Chandler looks like a solid signing.

 

[Concussion Protocol]

Competition for Daxton Swanson. Cool

 

[Brit patriot]

I also remember posters here losing their mind over Talib signing because he had been burned by Hakeem Nicks for 3 touchdowns earlier in the season.

That was before my time here, but I remember the game, and I'm not surprised so of the CL's started crying!

As you know, Bill can make guys work. If we just went by how players were viewed at other teams, we wouldn't have got Ayers or Casillas last year.

Even the best can make mistakes, but there are some who believe Bill is just sat there thinking everything is fine at CB, like some mad old uncle who has early onset dementia.

I actually heard from a mate in Philly that Fletcher was getting no safety help, and that is why he was getting burned. But we will see

 

[primetime]

Don't forget ex-Dolphins (and before that, ex-Rams) WR Brandon Gibson.

Ah yes, how soon I forget.

 

[JackBauer]

Not sure what your problem with the Branch and Cannon extensions are. Branch played well last year and Cannon is a solid backup tackle. Neither got big money.

And Chandler? Well, for a mere 18 million more, we could have had Charles Clay for the next two years. Chandler looks like a solid signing.

And why on earth would we rather have James Casey?

 

[unoriginal]

But he gave up 9 tds. Sounds like he was seeing a lot of action - did the Eagles just put him out on an island against top receivers?

That's exactly what they did. They had miserable deep safety play and they went press man all the time in order to get pressure. That's the defense they run.

You know Cary Williams who had played very well in Baltimore struggled in Phil too and signed with Seattle so maybe if he signed with one SB team and now Fletcher signed here, maybe just maybe there was something wrong with the scheme in Phil and both these players who are very talented are fixable.

And Bradley Fletcher routinely drew the opponent's #1 WR over Williams. Anybody here think Cary Williams is an awful corner? Well apparently he is without safety help, worse than Fletcher. Seattle signed him for 3ys $18 million to play in front of Earl Thomas. We just signed Bradley Fletcher for 1 yr $2.5 million to play in front of Devin McCourty.

The book on Fletcher is you can beat him like a drum with speed over the top, which happens to be the place a sideline-to-sideline FS would help the most. Other than that he's fairly competitive and the Pats got him cheap (for a prime age CB with starting experience).