Bill Belichick Press Conference 7:30am (1/8/24)

[upstater1]

I am talking about the relationship between Brady and Belichick. I am saying the relationship had soured by 2019 and Belichick probably wanted him gone. Whether or not Belichick tried to get Brady weapons, doesn't change that Brady complained about the talent that year. And the Guerrero thing happening in 2017 would be a reason for Belichick wanting to get rid of him and not Garoppolo.

Sigh.

Your timeline is all over the place. Belichick refused to trade Brady both before and after the Guerrero thing. In fact, Garoppolo was out the door right after the Garoppolo thing.

Brady showed up on Ross's boat before the 2019 season.

If Brady complained about the lack of talent, that doesn't speak well of him, when there were multiple attempts to give him what he wanted, 3 top draft picks, Gordon, and Edelman's injury sunk his weaponry. It's bad, but that happens. Why be pissed about Antonio being a head case, Edelman injury, and then I bet it was Brady who insisted on Sanu.

It was clear that year that Brady was not coping well with the injuries and the cutting of Antonio Brown. Really , that was petulant Brady. I supported the cutting of Brown 100%, and I called for it before it happened. It was the right call. Brady found out later how right it was.

 

[Ross12]

I don't necessarily want BOB to do the spersonnel, as I think you have a personnel department for that. But I want him to bring in his OL and WR coach and really just clean up the Friends and Family problem over on that side of the ball. Also let him decide which players start or don't.

I agree that BOB would be fine to select the coaches. I am just not sure how you fix the drafting problem on offense. I don't think giving full power to Groh fixes anything, and I don't know if taking everything away from Bill is strictly necessary if he's truly cooperative. Bill clearly needs help in specific areas, but not everywhere. He did not sound like a potential problem this morning, at least.

 

[Rob0729]

Sigh.

Your timeline is all over the place. Belichick refused to trade Brady both before and after the Guerrero thing. In fact, Garoppolo was out the door right after the Garoppolo thing.

Brady showed up on Ross's boat before the 2019 season.

If Brady complained about the lack of talent, that doesn't speak well of him, when there were multiple attempts to give him what he wanted, 3 top draft picks, Gordon, and Edelman's injury sunk his weaponry. It's bad, but that happens. Why be pissed about Antonio being a head case, Edelman injury, and then I bet it was Brady who insisted on Sanu.

It was clear that year that Brady was not coping well with the injuries and the cutting of Antonio Brown. Really , that was petulant Brady. I supported the cutting of Brown 100%, and I called for it before it happened. It was the right call. Brady found out later how right it was.

Again, you are assuming that Belichick refused to trade Brady because he didn't want to give him up and not because, as reported, he was ordered to keep him. We probably never know the truth. It doesn't matter the timeline.

And again, I am not talking about whether or not Belichick tried to get Brady talent in 2019. All I was talking about is the relationship between the two men. In fact, if Belichick felt he did try everything to get Brady talent and Brady was complaining, that would probably sour Belichick on Brady even more.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I agree that BOB would be fine to select the coaches. I am just not sure how you fix the drafting problem on offense. I don't think giving full power to Groh fixes anything, and I don't know if taking everything away from Bill is strictly necessary if he's truly cooperative. Bill clearly needs help in specific areas, but not everywhere. He did not sound like a potential problem this morning, at least.

I don't know if you go Groh. I think the problem is that you really need to expand and modernize the personnel department to be doing more with analytics, etc. Is there someone in house who can do that or do we need to hire from Philly or San Fran? And if so, are they going to want to be paired with a coach they don't get to hire and has huge sway in the organization?

 

[Ross12]

I don't know if you go Groh. I think the problem is that you really need to expand and modernize the personnel department to be doing more with analytics, etc. Is there someone in house who can do that or do we need to hire from Philly or San Fran? And if so, are they going to want to be paired with a coach they don't get to hire and has huge sway in the organization?

I think you can probably get most GMs on board with the plan of "Hey, you get to come work with the GOAT HC for 2 years and then when he hangs them up, you help pick the coach you want to replace him."

 

[Bill Lee]

If Bill can let someone else take over the offensive operation and do the scouting on that side of the ball and also coach that side of the ball and run the show (BOB, I guess, could do it although his rep as a GM in Houston gives me some pause) then maybe it can work. But I don't know if I feel particularly confident in that approach. As weird as it might sound, bringing back McDaniels might help in that regard.

I'm pretty convinced that if it Kraft moves on from BB, the right answer is to blow it all up, including Kraft himself.

Also I don't see BB sharing power effectively. He's the economics major who thinks he understands more than anyone else in the room about player value. I don't see how a second party will be able to convince him to take a WR when he has a hard-on for a DB. I don't see how he's going to move off team-build based on the old-school ground-and-pound offense and begin to understand what value speedy WRs can have and be willing to pay for that skill set.

I understand that an old-school ground-and-pound offense has its merits, but IMO that takes a lot of coaching and disciplining, and IMO college kids don't take to that well. It's gonna be even worse as they come out of college with lots of NIL money in the bank.

The LV squad seemed to tune out McD, and as this was happening McD seemed to just double-down on the hard-ass approach. IMO that's a big part of why he was in the stands yesterday instead of on the sidelines. I think pretty much everyone brought up in the "BB coaching tree" only does hard-ass. I think it's going to be hard to be successful with that coaching style going forward.

 

[upstater1]

I agree that BOB would be fine to select the coaches. I am just not sure how you fix the drafting problem on offense. I don't think giving full power to Groh fixes anything, and I don't know if taking everything away from Bill is strictly necessary if he's truly cooperative. Bill clearly needs help in specific areas, but not everywhere. He did not sound like a potential problem this morning, at least.

Too much is made about talent and roster construction.

Belichick even alluded it to do when he talked about other things happening.

In 2021, when this teams defense was pathetic (no punts to the Bills), he looked out there and saw old men or slow men chasing around fringe players like Isaiah McKenzie (by old or slow I mean McCourty, Chung, Hightower, Van Noy, Jamie Collins). Another problem was JC Jackson getting burned! Defense needed speed, and young people.

Belichick's focus after 2021 was a needed one.

But even still, we went OL in the 1st round the next year, and WR in the 2nd round. Even with all the needs on defense.

I think Belichick was mentioning the constraints this morning (couldn't find anyone in FA, QB being a complete and utter washout).

Belichick's roster construction principles are not bad at all. They are the right ones. He has devoted a lot of resources to offense. But missing out on the 2nd rd WR in Tyquan and especially the QB in Mac Jones makes it look a lot worse than it really is.

 

[jal]

Finding the right pocket passer is the problem, college just ain't making them like they used to.

Let's look at the last 12 years of SBs:

2022: Mahomes (mobile, but strong in pocket) over Hurts (mobile)
2021: Stafford (pocket) over Burrow (pocket)
2020: Brady (pocket) over Mahomes (mobile + pocket)
2019: Mahomes (mobile + pocket) over Garapollo (pocket)
2018: Brady (pocket) over Goff (pocket)
2017: Foles (pocket) over Brady (pocket)
2016: Brady (pocket) over Ryan (pocket)
2015: Peyton (pocket) over Newton (mobile)
2014: Brady (pocket) over Wilson (mobile)
2013: Wilson (mobile) over Peyton (pocket)
2012: Flacco (pocket) over Kapernick (mobile)
2011: Eli (pocket) over Brady (pocket)

Seems like pocket passers make up not only the majority of winners but also runner-ups. Mahomes is both good in pocket and mobile. Wilson is the only QB more known for his work outside the pocket than inside who won the championship, and it was more because he was supported by an all-time great defense.

Ideally you have a QB like Mahomes who is good in the pocket and also out of structure, but in reality you have to be good in structure to win the Super Bowl. The ability to win out of structure is a plus but not required at all.

 

[archstanton543]

I'm pretty convinced that if it Kraft moves on from BB, the right answer is to blow it all up, including Kraft himself.

You think Kraft is going to sell the team if he fires BB?

 

[upstater1]

Again, you are assuming that Belichick refused to trade Brady because he didn't want to give him up and not because, as reported, he was ordered to keep him. We probably never know the truth. It doesn't matter the timeline.

And again, I am not talking about whether or not Belichick tried to get Brady talent in 2019. All I was talking about is the relationship between the two men. In fact, if Belichick felt he did try everything to get Brady talent and Brady was complaining, that would probably sour Belichick on Brady even more.

The timeline matters a lot.

This is what you're not getting.

The timeline is everything.

Belichick, according to Wickersham, was ordered by Kraft during the 2017 season!!!!!!!

The initial call with Lynch happened in spring of 2017.

This means everything.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Bill looks tired and defeated. He clearly had prepared himself to answer questions a certain way and he stuck to it.

But it did sound to me like he was open to the idea of having a GM/Personnel person take charge if that was what was 'collectively decided' would be best, if the Krafts put their foot down.

Interesting stuff.

So do you think the Krafts move on from Bill and go for Jim Harbaugh who is the hottest NFL head coaching candidate at the minute or do they keep trying with Bill and put personnel director/GM around him and leave him at head coach?

 

[Bill Lee]

You think Kraft is going to sell the team if he fires BB?

No, but sooner or later he has to hand over to his son.

Doing it now would be a clear sign that he's moving on from the past.

Running himself, BB and the entourage back is a sign he's clinging to the past.

 

[Bill Lee]

This means everything.

Sure, to historians.

 

[archstanton543]

No, but sooner or later he has to hand over to his son.

Doing it now would be a clear sign that he's moving on from the past.

Running himself, BB and the entourage back is a sign he's clinging to the past.

Jon's been running the day-to-day for a long time now. Bob Kraft is more or less a figurehead these days.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Belichick's roster construction principles are not bad at all. They are the right ones. He has devoted a lot of resources to offense. But missing out on the 2nd rd WR in Tyquan and especially the QB in Mac Jones makes it look a lot worse than it really is.

BB's dinosaur roster construction and decision making has run this team's offensive talent into the ground and yielded a 4-13 result.

It's outdated and it doesn't work anymore.

You can hate on modern metrics and current day football trends all you want, that just means you go extinct in this league.

Not surprising that an advocate of dinosaur thinking is defending BB to the very last.

But in the end its up to the Krafts to decide the future of this team and maybe a clean break and a new approach are exactly what are needed to revive this sunken franchise.

If we move on from Bill, I'm in favor of getting Jim Harbaugh in charge as head coach along with a GM who is proven at building teams successfully in the modern NFL.

 

[Triumph]

r

Mac Jones would age any coach.

He looks terrible.

I want him to stay, but its likely best for BB to take a break and get away from football.

 

[Rob0729]

The timeline matters a lot.

This is what you're not getting.

The timeline is everything.

Belichick, according to Wickersham, was ordered by Kraft during the 2017 season!!!!!!!

The initial call with Lynch happened in spring of 2017.

This means everything.

Ok, I looked at the Lynch quote. Belichick told Lynch for F-off about both QBs. He said that he called for Garoppolo and was quickly was told he wasn't up for a trade and then he claimed he figured he take a shot at asking for Brady and was then hung up on. It was at a time that neither QB was up for a trade and based on Lynch's comments, I don't even know how serious the ask was or taken.

So if timelines are so important, then you are talking about a time before Belichick was willing to let either guy go.

Here is Lynch's quote:

PMT: Did you ask for Tom Brady?

Lynch: I’m not supposed to talk about that.

[laughter]

Lynch: Yeah, we were calling about Jimmy, and we did have that conversation and got quickly rebuffed. I figured, ‘You know, what the heck, you’ve got to take your shot, right? You can’t score if you don’t shoot.’ So I had to summon up the courage — and yeah, Bill laughed at me. He basically hung up on me, but hey, I took my shot.

John Lynch confirms he asked Bill Belichick about a trade for Tom Brady

John Lynch admitted to asking Bill Belichick if he’d trade Tom Brady to the 49ers, and it went about as well as you’d think.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

 

[Ross12]

Too much is made about talent and roster construction.

Belichick even alluded it to do when he talked about other things happening.

In 2021, when this teams defense was pathetic (no punts to the Bills), he looked out there and saw old men or slow men chasing around fringe players like Isaiah McKenzie (by old or slow I mean McCourty, Chung, Hightower, Van Noy, Jamie Collins). Another problem was JC Jackson getting burned! Defense needed speed, and young people.

Belichick's focus after 2021 was a needed one.

But even still, we went OL in the 1st round the next year, and WR in the 2nd round. Even with all the needs on defense.

I think Belichick was mentioning the constraints this morning (couldn't find anyone in FA, QB being a complete and utter washout).

Belichick's roster construction principles are not bad at all. They are the right ones. He has devoted a lot of resources to offense. But missing out on the 2nd rd WR in Tyquan and especially the QB in Mac Jones makes it look a lot worse than it really is.

If Mac Jones was a top 16 QB and Thornton was at the quality of other 2nd round WRs like AJ Brown or Deebo, this obviously would have been a different team. Unfortunately both were whiffs, though at the same time, you can also point the finger at coaching in regards to Mac and possibly also Thornton.

 

[upstater1]

BB's dinosaur roster construction and decision making has run this team's offensive talent into the ground and yielded a 4-13 result.

It's outdated and it doesn't work anymore.

You can hate on modern metrics and current day football trends all you want, that just means you go extinct in this league.

Not surprising that an advocate of dinosaur thinking is defending BB to the very last.

But in the end its up to the Krafts to decide the future of this team and maybe a clean break and a new approach are exactly what are needed to revive this sunken franchise.

If we move on from Bill, I'm in favor of getting Jim Harbaugh in charge as head coach along with a GM who is proven at building teams successfully in the modern NFL.

I was specific. You're not specific. Which means there's no substance about what you're saying.

It's just the things radio guys put in your head and which you repeat like a little sheep.

If you want to write something with substance, go ahead.

 

[upstater1]

If Mac Jones was a top 16 QB and Thornton was at the quality of other 2nd round WRs like AJ Brown or Deebo, this obviously would have been a different team. Unfortunately both were whiffs, though at the same time, you can also point the finger at coaching in regards to Mac and possibly also Thornton.

I'll say Pickens because he was available after (thank god Belichick didn't go for Treylon Burks in the 1st).

Yes, the point is, the allocation of resources is right, but it's taking those two guys in particular that has killed us.

The tackle thing is another story just because the lack of availability. But I support the thinking there too (i.e taking Gonzalez and Keion White).

As for coaching, I don't think that's Mac's problem. And it's interesting to see so many other receivers do better than Tyquan (Reagor, Douglas).

Tyquan being out of yesterday's game told me he may not even be suited for December in New England. In fact, Parker gave a rather embarrassing performance out there too for a snow game.