Bethel Johnson Traded

[fgssand]

I actually do believe that Warren would have turned into a nothing player for the Saints. He is as much a product of the Pats system as David Patten and David Givens on the O side, or Brandon Mitchell, Bobby Hamilton and Chad Eaton on the D side. There's nothing special about them athletically. They're incredibly productive because the staff knows how to use them.

The Saints have drafted good players in the past, who have all gone on to enjoy pretty inauspicious careers. Will Smith, for example, should be a probowler, and probably would be for any "real" NFL coached team.

BB has the record of turning players' careers around. Antowain Smith, Marc Edwards. Mike Vrabel, who was a washout with the Steelers. When Rodney came to Foxboro he had lost a step and was at the end of his career.

Hopefully, Sullivan is one of those, not another David Terrell.

f you analyze Sullivans career - he has improved every year. As stated earlier, he was drafted young. He did have over 40 tackles last year.

I think he comes here, drinks the kool aid, learns how to play a position and plays some great football for us. He is healthy and it now becomes his time. He will pick up single coverage and be able to dominate like never before in his career.

I look for this guy to now develop into an awesome player and will be the subject of a real debate in a couple of years.That debate will be how much are we going to have to pay this guy to KEEP him around.

 

[PonyExpress]

I actually do believe that Warren would have turned into a nothing player for the Saints. He is as much a product of the Pats system as David Patten and David Givens on the O side, or Brandon Mitchell, Bobby Hamilton and Chad Eaton on the D side. There's nothing special about them athletically. They're incredibly productive because the staff knows how to use them.

The Saints have drafted good players in the past, who have all gone on to enjoy pretty inauspicious careers. Will Smith, for example, should be a probowler, and probably would be for any "real" NFL coached team.

BB has the record of turning players' careers around. Antowain Smith, Marc Edwards. Mike Vrabel, who was a washout with the Steelers. When Rodney came to Foxboro he had lost a step and was at the end of his career.

Hopefully, Sullivan is one of those, not another David Terrell.

I understand your respect for the Pats system, we have all learned to respect it. But you are trending toward sounding like those national writers who dismiss the talent of our players and attribute all of their accomplishments to BB. I think you are going too far. Warren had an excellent Senior Bowl and his talent was rated 1st rd caliber throughout the league. Vrabel was an all-american at Ohio State and set the school sack record, but was trapped in an extremely talented linebacking corps. Will Smith is currently an excellent player on the verge of being a probowler despite playing in NO. Rodney's down year in SD was due to a torn groin. Your reverence for BB is admirable, but approaching the mystical. As far as players amounting to "nothings" with the Saints, their D-line record apart from Sullivan has been excellent. D. Howard, Charles Grant and Will Smith are all pro-bowl caliber talents who have flourished down there. It was Sullivan alone who was such a colossal turd that he needed to be flushed.

 

[PonyExpress]

f you analyze Sullivans career - he has improved every year. As stated earlier, he was drafted young. He did have over 40 tackles last year.

I think he comes here, drinks the kool aid, learns how to play a position and plays some great football for us. He is healthy and it now becomes his time. He will pick up single coverage and be able to dominate like never before in his career.

I look for this guy to now develop into an awesome player and will be the subject of a real debate in a couple of years.That debate will be how much are we going to have to pay this guy to KEEP him around.

Has it occurred to you that the phrase, "drinking the Kool-Aid" can no longer be used in reference to the Patriots? Sorry if that was inappropriate...

 

[PowerAlley.com]

Sullivan(2006)=Terrell(2005)
2 former high first rounds and former team mates of our superstars. Tom Brady could not help Terrell become a super star. Now Seymour gets his chance to help BB get Sullivan into shape.

I like the trade because DL is more important than WR. Bethel was going to get cut due to his additude and lack of production.

So it is a boom or bust trade. It could work out quite well for us, or we cut this hamburger eating lazy dude.

I drank the kool Aid, I believe! Good Trade!

Mike
Poweralley.com

 

[patsfan13]

I felt that Bam was going to make the roster ahead of Bethel this year. The is a no lose situation. IMO Sullivan will be a NT. You need to rotate 2 players here A good backup to Wilfolk will make him more effective.

 

[BelichickFan]

So it is a boom or bust trade. It could work out quite well for us, or we cut this hamburger eating lazy dude.

More like a boom or nothing trade as Bethel wasn't long for the team.

 

[mgteich]

Some thoughts

1. Posters were the only people who thought Bethel was making this team.

2. Getting rid of Bethel has nothing to do with any other player.

3. If we don't bring in a returner/receiver, then it would say something about Childress (or one of the other practice players).

4. Sullivan cost us nothing; we can cut him at any point before the season starts.

5. How can it be wrong for Sullivan to be our #7 emergency DL instead of Klecko?

6. Is possible that either Hill or Sullivan can replace Wright as the backup NT.
I don't think this is asking much.

7. But maybe not, perhaps Sullivan is simply Hill insurance.
---------------------------------------------------------

BOTTOM LINE

This could be nothing, a mediocre backup, or a solid backup. I can't figure out how this can be anything but good for the patriots.

 

[RayClayborne]

This trade says the most about this guy...

Sullivan came out as an underclassman, so he's still young.

Excellent point! Undoubtedly Beoli are thinking he wasn't ready, but might respond to some structure.

But the person that this trade probably said the most about is Chad Jackson...this trade confirms that Pats see what we have seen in the mini-camps...the guy is an instant star, its extremely rare that the Pats feel this early that a rookie can compete for #2 or #3 receiver, but this trade tells me that's what they are thinking...

I would add that this is a good trade regardless of how great BJ is going to be on a NO team with Bush, McAllister and Brees...he just wouldn't have been that here that's all.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Several posters have emphasized this...I'm not so convinced by the old-teammate argument. (It reminds me far too much of the way that reuniting David Terrell with his old college QB was supposed to turn him around last year.) If Sullivan is a different player here I'll guess it will be because of the coaching, the scheme, and the major wake-up call of being cast off by the team that drafted him.

Totally intriguing trade overall. I mentally waved goodbye to Bethel after his recent mega-clueless interview...but we really do need another WR.

Amen to all of this above...agree 100%.

 

[SamBamsFan]

Actually the 1st thing that came to my mind last fall there was a trade in MLB between TB & SD- Burroughs for Brazelton. One headline came up that it was" a minor trade for 2 major disappointments". It pretty much sums up my feelings.

 

[Miguel]

Miguel has Bethel's remaining SB at $700K so it will cost us about :

$700K + $700K - $500K = $900K approximately for 2006.

My bad. My remaining signing bonus column includes the 2006 proration. I just made that clearer. Sorry about that.

This is how I figured the net cap hit.

Bethel was on the top 51 list with a cap hit of $856,160.
Sullivan will replace him with a cap hit of $689,083. That's a savings of $167,077. Bethel goes onto the dead money with a cap hit of $706,160.
706,160 minus 167,077 = 539,083

 

[BelichickFan]

706,160 minus 167,077 = 539,083

Even better - as soon as I think I understand the cap basics, I discover I don't

 

[Miguel]

Even better - as soon as I think I understand the cap basics, I discover I don't

Garbage in, Garbage out. I apologize for providing misleading info.

 

[14thDragon]

My bad. My remaining signing bonus column includes the 2006 proration. I just made that clearer. Sorry about that.

This is how I figured the net cap hit.

Bethel was on the top 51 list with a cap hit of $856,160.
Sullivan will replace him with a cap hit of $689,083. That's a savings of $167,077. Bethel goes onto the dead money with a cap hit of $706,160.
706,160 minus 167,077 = 539,083

Still just a few small drops in the bucket. It is still very low risk money, nickle betting really.

Besides, we were pretty much going to have that Dead money cap hit regardless when we would have had to cut him. Might as well get some potential.

 

[Boston Tim]

Hopefully, Sullivan is one of those, not another David Terrell.

Wasn't Terrell having a solid training camp up until the point he was injured? And when he came back he was too far behind, so got cut?

 

[dryheat44]

My bad. My remaining signing bonus column includes the 2006 proration. I just made that clearer. Sorry about that.

This is how I figured the net cap hit.

Bethel was on the top 51 list with a cap hit of $856,160.
Sullivan will replace him with a cap hit of $689,083. That's a savings of $167,077. Bethel goes onto the dead money with a cap hit of $706,160.
706,160 minus 167,077 = 539,083

Apparently there's some obscure rule that will allow us to divide the cap hit over two seasons if we chooose. WWW.ProFootballTalk.com/rumormill.htm has the details. Apparently, Sullivan's final two years of his contract have also been voided.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Apparently, Sullivan's final two years of his contract have also been voided.

Isn't that all academic for the Patriots anyway? With no bonus money its a year to year contract anyway... having the last 2 years voided actually gives Sullivan an incentive... if he played well for the Pats they'd hold him and have him on the cheap... if he didn't he'd be cut - which is still the case

So now, with the incentive of being a FA 2 years earlier if he actually plays well, Sullivan has a monetary incentive he didn't before - and the Pats would be the beneficiaries of that for 2 years

 

[dryheat44]

Isn't that all academic for the Patriots anyway? With no bonus money its a year to year contract anyway... having the last 2 years voided actually gives Sullivan an incentive... if he played well for the Pats they'd hold him and have him on the cheap... if he didn't he'd be cut - which is still the case

Yes. Just information, which as I backpedaled through the thread I noticed someone else had already brought up.

 

[edzo44]

RookBoston said . . .

But, if we're playing with the idea, I think it's just as likely that he's looking to run a 5-2 defense:

Warren - Green - Wilfork - Seymour - Sullivan
Bruschi - Vrabel

This idea HAS crossed my mind as being a possibility but I'm not certain we quite have the secondary to pull it off yet. Lot of man to man coverage to exploit if you're a quarterback with a really quick release and smart receivers. Interesting thought though!

 

[ilduce06410]

will sullivan be the backup NT?

Interesting shot to take there if true. Sullivan has been massively disappointing but it's not like Bethel was even a lock to make the team.

if he's to be used in a rotation with wilfork, i like it. i've been wondering what happens if wilfork goes down.
this trade may suggest that they are planning to spend more of the basic time in a 4-3. i'd say their basic defense last year was either the 'any formation' alignment or the basic 3-3 with an elephant. mcginest was a player who stood alone. so i don't see them getting away from their current 'any formation' doctrine.
somebody in this thread said patriots usually dress only 4WRs for a game. does that mean they're running the 5-WR set with graham/watson? do they use only 3 WRs if somebody gets injured?