Bethel Johnson Traded

[AllabouttheVinces]

They've also added Caldwell.

Right you are, Zippo. Good catch. Oooh, awful pun.

 

[fgssand]

I am not at all trashing your idea. My friend brings it up all the time. But I recall last year some talk from Wilfork, where he revealed that alot of the players wanted to got to the 4-3 when the D started breaking down in the first half of the season. Especially the D-line guys, who wanted to get after the QB. But despite the collapse of the D, BB stuck to the 3-4, with everything falling apart around him. This indicates to what degree BB believes in his scheme...He is married to it now, I think, for the long haul...

As answered in another post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Fungi
the hardest thing for people to wrap there heads around appears to be that the Patriots aren't a 3-4 or a 4-3 team. They are a Belichick Zone team (for lack of a better description). There may be some base formations, but calling it a 3-4 or a 4-3 doesn't make it so.

So...you are correct...but it isn't anything new...and it has been discussed at great lengths...

My answer:
That is very true. I guess this debate is really meaningless, we can call our base "D" 3-4 or 4-3 but it is indeed meaningless. This team will change up on the fly, play after play, series after series, quarter after quarter to whichever defense makes sense at a given moment. The genius that is BB is the ability to draft smart, talented players that will understand and grasp the system and handle their responsibilities. Do thier jobs is all BB ever asks. His schemes and systems take it from there.

 

[CrazyDave]

Good trade.
Bethel for a case of chin straps would have been a good trade imo.
He pretty much did nothing here. Nothing personal, just how I see it.

 

[Tunescribe]

The obvious question is what does BB think he can get out of Sullivan that the Saints couldn't. When was the last time we had a player-for-player trade?

 

[dryheat44]

I only pray that Sullivan gets a tight number.

 

[Amnorix]

How many times was BJ a healthy scratch? Too many. How many times had he stated, publicly, that he didn't even understand why he wasn't starting.

Lest we forget, it was Johnson whom BB was referring to when told by the media that Johnson didn't even know why he wasn't playing more, and BB said something like "I find that hard to believe, that he doesn't know."

He didn't get it. He couldn't get it. And after all the time he has had, he was NEVER GOING to get it. Maybe he'll blossom elsewhere, but he was never going to do it here. It was tiem for a change of scenery.

Same for Sullivan. Both these guys need new digs to try to re-establish themselves. If they **EACH** didn't have a TON of natural talent, they already would've been cut and out of hte league. As it is, just because they REALLY SHOULD succeed in the NFL, they're getting another chance. It might be their last one, so I hope they both make use of it.

 

[mcsully]

Why are folks hung up on fat, lazy Sullie's lack of productivity in a 4-3? He's here at a very cheap price, trade and cap wise, to play in a 3-4 as a backup NT, a guy with bulk who holds the center and keeps the center and guards off the LBs in our 3-4.

Obviously BB felt that he'd be better suited to playing a 3-4 than 4-3 and was willing to jettison WR tease who still 'did not get it' regarding what the coaches here wanted from him. Bethel's style did not mesh with BB's. After you try and try with an employee and get the same non-results, it's time to move on. Bethel had no value here. Forget the faux OC doubletalk nonsense written previously about deep post routes and Brady's alleged weaknesses that somehow some QB in NO will readily overcome. Fact is, Bethel flat out could not be relied upon as a backup WR because of his self imposed route running limitations. Therefore we could not afford to waste his roster spot, because we need 3rd & 4th WRs who can play for a game or 2 running all kinds of routes if/when the 1 & 2 WRs get injured. Bethel only showed flashes and no sign whatsoever of that consistency and flexibility over the 3 years here and was just whining to Felgie about it this 4th season.

Even if Sully remains the stump that he's been despite his new role and new environs, we simply paid for him with a guy we woulda cut anyway. Same for New Orleans. Neither team was going to get anyone really valuable for their castoffs so they each made the best of it.

Me, I sincerely I wish Bethel success in his new job.

I can't agree with you more.. After pouring over some of the posts and reading "give BJ more chances, & Brady doesn't do this well ", I was rolling my eyes like you. Still waiting to see how Weiss gets blamed BJ not being a great player

One point I like to make. Seems that between BJ coming out in the paper and stating "I don't know why I don't play more" and the belief that J.Sullivan has a higher ceiling then BJ, this trade was made to beef up the DL that might have some questions of its own. Hill isn't eactly the player they thought he would be. And after Wilfork, there is no one to step up and play that IMPORTANT ROLE in the 3-4..

 

[Julius]

Instead of suggesting a move to a 4/3 defense this pick up solidifies the 3/4. The nose tackle is critical to the 3/4 and besides Wilfork we had no other space eating body on the roster. If this guy can get it together we now have our base D-line set for the next three four years. This also gives further options for the goal line defense.

 

[Brownfan80]

Very unimpressive stats.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396178

You might as well have included a link to Bethel Johnson under that quote as well, as it's entirely true for him as well.

 

[fgssand]

The obvious question is what does BB think he can get out of Sullivan that the Saints couldn't. When was the last time we had a player-for-player trade?

Great question, there sure arent many of them in the NFL at all.

Keep in mind, the Saints are not exactly known for teaching "D", football smarts and discipline. BB & the NEP bring all of that as well as his old college teammate in R. Seymour.

If Sully makes it anywhere it will be right here.

 

[dryheat44]

The obvious question is what does BB think he can get out of Sullivan that the Saints couldn't. When was the last time we had a player-for-player trade?

According to the website, 1995, Patriots obtain TE Jeff Wilner and WR Bill Schroeder from Green Bay for C Mike Arthur. I never remember Schroeder playing for the Pats though.

Then in 1993, Patriots obtain George Williams (NT) from Cleveland for Rob McGovern (LB).


If you mean last player-for-player trade that was meaningful, who knows? I went as far back as 1986.

 

[PonyExpress]

THe reason Bethel couldn't get on the field comes down to one thing: Tom Brady didn't want him on the field. Tom BRady didn't believe in Bethel. I believe the reason for this is he couldn;t rely on BEthel's route running. For example in the 34-20 pounding by the Steelers in '04, Brady's INT returned for a TD was the result of Bethel falling down in his pattern. I recall this same thing happening on another occasion, possibly against Carolina last year. I think Brady just pulled the plug.

 

[b72s]

Lovinnnn every minute of it

Fo not forget the opening kickoff against Cleve..in 04...game gone with his TD!!

Do not forget Bethel full field reversal Vs. Titans in playoffs for first down

Regardless Sullivan has more upside and can never get big bodies cheap like this

3-4, 4-3 who cares we got Sey, Wilfork, Green, Hill, Sullivan

Maybe Sey takes over Willie's Elephant role, we won't need LBs or Cbs if he is coming hard of the edge the Qb will be ducking for cover

 

[VJCPatriot]

Instead of suggesting a move to a 4/3 defense this pick up solidifies the 3/4. The nose tackle is critical to the 3/4 and besides Wilfork we had no other space eating body on the roster. If this guy can get it together we now have our base D-line set for the next three four years. This also gives further options for the goal line defense.

An astute observation. The depth behind Wilfork was ICE THIN. You really want to count on Wright to step it up from the PS or rookie 6th round pick Smith to step up if Wilfork has an injury? I sure don't. This move makes a lot of sense for both teams and DOES NOT indicate we are moving to a 4-3 anytime soon imo. It is shoring up depth at NT!

 

[PonyExpress]

An astute observation. The depth behind Wilfork was ICE THIN. You really want to count on Wright to step it up from the PS or rookie 6th round pick Smith to set up if Wilfork has an injury? I sure don't. This move makes a lot of sense for both teams and DOES NOT indicate we are moving to a 4-3 anytime soon imo. It is shoring up depth at NT!

I don't think Sullivan is intended as a NT, but as a 3-4 DE. His experience is attacking upfield, not as a two-gap space eater ( as a opposed to every other kind of eater). That seems more easily converted to DE than NT. Plus his height is in the DE range. His weight is currently 328, but supposedly will be down below 320... just a thought.

 

[PatsSaintsSox]

Maybe Sey takes over Willie's Elephant role, we won't need LBs or Cbs if he is coming hard of the edge the Qb will be ducking for cover

I think Sey is to big to play the elephant...

...I think Jeremy Mincey is our ELB this year...

 

[DarrylS]

I think this will be ok, seemed as though Bethel never "got it", not sure if it was desire or intelligence..Sullivan is another big body on the d line, if he lives up to 60% of his draft hype he can help us..the #93 influence will be signficant...

Player for player trades straight up are indeed unusual..think it bodes well for Deion Branch.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Remeber the trade that was rumored about Bethel for Green (Browns)? There was no way that Bethel was going to make the roster.

 

[BelichickFan]

Wow, now the Pats have 4 first-rounders on their D line. I'm not sure how many, if any, other teams can say that.

Plus a #2 (Hill) . . . and they're all signed through 2009.

 

[primetime]

According to the website, 1995, Patriots obtain TE Jeff Wilner and WR Bill Schroeder from Green Bay for C Mike Arthur. I never remember Schroeder playing for the Pats though.

That would be correct. Schroeder tore a ligament in either camp or the preseason and was placed on IR. He resigned with the Packers the next year and made a nice, solid career for himself.

I believe the Patriots also traded a player to the Packers for future considerations at one point, and those future considerations came back as Ferric Collons and Mike Bartrum. Collons may, however, have been part of the Arthur trade for some reason (Schroeder getting hurt, possibly?)

I like this trade. Bethel obviously didn't have it. Sullivan's still got a high ceiling and if any team can make him a star, it's the Patriots. He doesn't cost much more than Bethel, either.