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Bedard: Pats and Welker $6 mill apart


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Playing football with my buddies out by the grill yesterday. One of them throws to my other friend who is about 15 yards away. He drops the pass. The guy who dropped it goes, "that was just like Welker. ****!" I facepalmed. Keep in mind this is in a state not even close to the New England area. What an embarassment he's made this franchise. One day the rest of you will understand my dislike for Welker. He's not winning this team anything.
Today is the day you will understand our dislike for you. See ya...
 
Never heard of this writer before, but she nailed it. Including why what has unfolded to date is such a head scratcher. I get why they don't coddle 'em or blow smoke up their skirts. But this guy didn't need that, he produced like the self starting overachiever they crave. If you can't give it a rest and resist busting that guys balls, then maybe Felger is right and the arrogance of winning at everything, including negotiations, is at play here.

Wes Welker Deserves New Deal, Should Get Contract Offer From Patriots This Week - New England Patriots - NESN.com
 
Never heard of this writer before, but she nailed it. Including why what has unfolded to date is such a head scratcher. I get why they don't coddle 'em or blow smoke up their skirts. But this guy didn't need that, he produced like the self starting overachiever they crave. If you can't give it a rest and resist busting that guys balls, then maybe Felger is right and the arrogance of winning at everything, including negotiations, is at play here.

Wes Welker Deserves New Deal, Should Get Contract Offer From Patriots This Week - New England Patriots - NESN.com
There is NOTHING head scratching about the way the Pats are handling this. I read the article, and what I read was a great case on why Welker deserved every penny he was paid over the last 5 years, and why he DESERVES to be paid $9.3MM for this season.

Here is the crux of our differing points of view. You clearly believe that Welker should be paid what he wants (lets assume its $21MM guaranteed, on some kind of multi-year contract), because of what he's done in the past, while I believe he should be paid for what the Pats expect he will produce in the future (and right now that is reportedly $15MM guaranteed).

The fact that Welker's not the kind of guy who will let big money affect his play is totally irrelevant. (though its a great character trait). The Pats are dealing with a LOT of realities in this negotiation. the reality of the possibility of a quick decline that happens to most WRs of Welker's size. The reality of the wear and tear on his body over a 9 year NFL career. The reality of how that $6MM could be used elsewhere in building the team. The reality of how a long term deal for Welker at HIS price would affect the entire salary structure of the team.

Again there is NOTHING head scratching at all about how and why the Pats are approaching this negotiation. They can't afford the luxury of overpaying for past performance. Short term its emotionally satisfying. Doing the "right thing" and all that. But we've "been there and done that" back in the 90's, and it didn't work out well.

No question Welker outperformed his last contract. That's why I don't have problem paying him the $9.3MM THIS year, but paying him that much and more going forward is NOT sound cap management. Even you would have to admit that.

As far as I'm concerned you can give him any kind of LT contract. I don't care about the years. I don't care about the incentives. If he keeps playing at an equally high level as he has in the last 5 years in 2013 and beyond, I'd be happy to pay him at a high level HOWEVER as far as GUARANTEED money, I wouldn't be willing to commit beyond that $15MM that's reportedly on the table now

So what's the compromise? I think its that the Pats get their number as far as the guarantee goes, while Welker gets his number in the end IF he continues his high level of play. The end result would be a 4 year deal at around $6MM/yr that could go as high as 9MM/yr IF he hits his incentives With $15MM guaranteed and a $10MM signing bonus.

If he didn't take that deal, plan B would be to have him have a great year this season and let him test the FA waters in 2013 as a 32 year old small slot receiver....and promise not to franchise him.
 
If he didn't take that deal, plan B would be to have him have a great year this season and let him test the FA waters in 2013 as a 32 year old small slot receiver....and promise not to franchise him.

There's no fool like an old fool.
 
There is NOTHING head scratching about the way the Pats are handling this. I read the article, and what I read was a great case on why Welker deserved every penny he was paid over the last 5 years, and why he DESERVES to be paid $9.3MM for this season.

Here is the crux of our differing points of view. You clearly believe that Welker should be paid what he wants (lets assume its $21MM guaranteed, on some kind of multi-year contract), because of what he's done in the past, while I believe he should be paid for what the Pats expect he will produce in the future (and right now that is reportedly $15MM guaranteed).

The fact that Welker's not the kind of guy who will let big money affect his play is totally irrelevant. (though its a great character trait). The Pats are dealing with a LOT of realities in this negotiation. the reality of the possibility of a quick decline that happens to most WRs of Welker's size. The reality of the wear and tear on his body over a 9 year NFL career. The reality of how that $6MM could be used elsewhere in building the team. The reality of how a long term deal for Welker at HIS price would affect the entire salary structure of the team.

Again there is NOTHING head scratching at all about how and why the Pats are approaching this negotiation. They can't afford the luxury of overpaying for past performance. Short term its emotionally satisfying. Doing the "right thing" and all that. But we've "been there and done that" back in the 90's, and it didn't work out well.

No question Welker outperformed his last contract. That's why I don't have problem paying him the $9.3MM THIS year, but paying him that much and more going forward is NOT sound cap management. Even you would have to admit that.

As far as I'm concerned you can give him any kind of LT contract. I don't care about the years. I don't care about the incentives. If he keeps playing at an equally high level as he has in the last 5 years in 2013 and beyond, I'd be happy to pay him at a high level HOWEVER as far as GUARANTEED money, I wouldn't be willing to commit beyond that $15MM that's reportedly on the table now

So what's the compromise? I think its that the Pats get their number as far as the guarantee goes, while Welker gets his number in the end IF he continues his high level of play. The end result would be a 4 year deal at around $6MM/yr that could go as high as 9MM/yr IF he hits his incentives With $15MM guaranteed and a $10MM signing bonus.

If he didn't take that deal, plan B would be to have him have a great year this season and let him test the FA waters in 2013 as a 32 year old small slot receiver....and promise not to franchise him.

The problem with the article is two fold.

It seems to believe that based on the past five years, there will be zero evolution in the offense. Why that would happen with the two RB's, development of the TE's, and the new WR's is curious.

Considering the fact WW arrived under the "Huh?", it's seems to infer that WW has that unique skillset that simply can never be replaced. As such, the concept that there is a player toiling in obscurity could fill this roll is discounted despite the fact 2007 shows it happens.

This is similiar to the Carter/Anderson 2011 question. How is it possible to replace 20 sacks by signing guys out of the blue even those those two guys were like signed out of the blue?
 
There is NOTHING head scratching about the way the Pats are handling this. I read the article, and what I read was a great case on why Welker deserved every penny he was paid over the last 5 years, and why he DESERVES to be paid $9.3MM for this season.

Then either the author missed her mark or you read something and dismissed it because it didn't track with your POV, which is nothing new.

Here is the crux of our differing points of view. You clearly believe that Welker should be paid what he wants (lets assume its $21MM guaranteed, on some kind of multi-year contract), because of what he's done in the past, while I believe he should be paid for what the Pats expect he will produce in the future (and right now that is reportedly $15MM guaranteed.

No, that's not the crux of our differing POV. That's what you attempt to present the POV of everyone who disagrees with you as. I don't want to pay Welker for what he's done in the past. Hell, that would be over $10M per... While you actually do, for just a year. Because you assume he will do it again. So do I, and that is why I want to control his rights for the next 3-4 years because I believe he will continue to perform at a similar level. The reason I believe that is because of his track record to date in a variety of circumstances and the fact that at 31 he isn't as close to 34 as some seem to insist and at the end of the day guys who can mesh with Brady and truly grasp this system and all its variabled and nuances don't grow on trees.

The fact that Welker's not the kind of guy who will let big money affect his play is totally irrelevant. (though its a great character trait). The Pats are dealing with a LOT of realities in this negotiation. the reality of the possibility of a quick decline that happens to most WRs of Welker's size. The reality of the wear and tear on his body over a 9 year NFL career. The reality of how that $6MM could be used elsewhere in building the team. The reality of how a long term deal for Welker at HIS price would affect the entire salary structure of the team.

Where did you see the data on declines?... Welker has only been a starter in this league for 5-6 seasons. The team is $10M under the cap with little left to spend on this season. They are in great cap shape going forward, even with Brady's deal screaming for an extension that will only lower his cap hits going forward. They only have a handful of players signed past 2014... A long term deal for Welker gives them roster and cost certainty and cap flexibility. His replacement - who isn't signed for 2013 or beyond either unless you project the 7th round draft pick as that guy - won't play for peanuts, not if he produces even half of what Welker is capable of producing. And Hernandez, if he continues to produce may be difficult to retain for reasons that have nothing to do with Welker. He could decide that TE money doesn't approach his value. That's the reality of team structure.

Again there is NOTHING head scratching at all about how and why the Pats are approaching this negotiation. They can't afford the luxury of overpaying for past performance. Short term its emotionally satisfying. Doing the "right thing" and all that. But we've "been there and done that" back in the 90's, and it didn't work out well.

Nobody is asking them to overpay for past performance. That's just the way you choose to portray anyone who believes Welker is deserving of a long term deal at anything approaching his market value and the market value of the position, including guys who don't remotely approach his production while averaging $7M per, like Anquan Boldin in Baltimore who signed a 4/$28M deal back in 2010. And past production is factored into any signing or even drafting, that's a fact. Everything is a projection based on past performance.

No question Welker outperformed his last contract. That's why I don't have problem paying him the $9.3MM THIS year, but paying him that much and more going forward is NOT sound cap management. Even you would have to admit that.

Again, nobody including myself is advocating paying him that much and more going forward. Although if they tag him again they will for at least another season and that will pose a cap problem short term. Although it won't be one of his or Brady's making...

As far as I'm concerned you can give him any kind of LT contract. I don't care about the years. I don't care about the incentives. If he keeps playing at an equally high level as he has in the last 5 years in 2013 and beyond, I'd be happy to pay him at a high level HOWEVER as far as GUARANTEED money, I wouldn't be willing to commit beyond that $15MM that's reportedly on the table now

So what's the compromise? I think its that the Pats get their number as far as the guarantee goes, while Welker gets his number in the end IF he continues his high level of play. The end result would be a 4 year deal at around $6MM/yr that could go as high as 9MM/yr IF he hits his incentives With $15MM guaranteed and a $10MM signing bonus.

You're asking him to do something no elite play will agree to, assume all the risk. Controlling the rights of one of the leading receiver in the league and the leading receiver at his position for another 3 years is worth more than $5M. Because he stands to gain a lot more while shouldering a lot less risk if he just rolls the dice altogether. He would easily even at 32 be in line for a market 3 or even 4 deal that would guarantee him another $10M+ and implicitly guarantee him upwards of $16M more over the next 2 seasons.

If he didn't take that deal, plan B would be to have him have a great year this season and let him test the FA waters in 2013 as a 32 year old small slot receiver....and promise not to franchise him.

They don't have to promise not to franchise him...he's already signed his tag and reported. Everyone who gets to this level and succeeds has an ego. Here guys are asked to check it at the door, and Welker certainly has. But there are limits to how long guys will continue to do that, especially if they feel they have been taken advantage of or their efforts have not been acknowledged or appreciated. Sometimes that leads to a situation where a player will choose to move on even for a dollar less (or despite a dollar more). It would be unfortunate if they turn Welker into that guy, the one they have no shot at retaining because they've just alienated him past the point of no return.
 
The problem with the article is two fold.

It seems to believe that based on the past five years, there will be zero evolution in the offense. Why that would happen with the two RB's, development of the TE's, and the new WR's is curious.

Um, because it's worked out that way in the past despite all sorts of evolutionary possibilities...

Considering the fact WW arrived under the "Huh?", it's seems to infer that WW has that unique skillset that simply can never be replaced. As such, the concept that there is a player toiling in obscurity could fill this roll is discounted despite the fact 2007 shows it happens.

Um...it has happened exactly once here at that position to anything approaching this level. And it's never happened for 5 years at anything approaching this level. Anywhere.

This is similiar to the Carter/Anderson 2011 question. How is it possible to replace 20 sacks by signing guys out of the blue even those those two guys were like signed out of the blue?

And where are they now after their one year performances? And what is the price of attempting to replace their production in terms of dollars and draft capital? And what will the consequence be if it fails? And Welker wasn't a "Huh?" to Belichick, or even some of us. Unfortunately I think he will always be perceived as such by some. NEM wanted Bill to cut him in camp that first season and admit he'd made a mistake after landing Moss and Stallworth... The way NEM forsaw that offense evolving Welker was just another midget mistake. Last year between the emerging TE's and Ocho on the outside...all Welker could do was more than ever...
 
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Playing football with my buddies out by the grill yesterday. One of them throws to my other friend who is about 15 yards away. He drops the pass. The guy who dropped it goes, "that was just like Welker. ****!"

No, being just like Wes Welker would be averaging 110 catches a year for the last five years in a professional football league. Has your buddy done that yet?
 
And where are they now after their one year performances? And what is the price of attempting to replace their production in terms of dollars and draft capital? And what will the consequence be if it fails? And Welker wasn't a "Huh?" to Belichick, or even some of us. Unfortunately I think he will always be perceived as such by some. NEM wanted Bill to cut him in camp that first season and admit he'd made a mistake after landing Moss and Stallworth... The way NEM forsaw that offense evolving Welker was just another midget mistake. Last year between the emerging TE's and Ocho on the outside...all Welker could do was more than ever...

Cute, Mo

Is WW paying you to state his case?

He's entitled to a refund.

Yeah, the longbow worked in the past, let's equip the US Army with them. The Sopwith Camel worked in the past, let's equip the US Air Force with them.
Dreadnaught type capital ships for the US Navy anyone? They worked in the past.

Hell, let's go "wishbone" and "winged tee". They worked. "Grits Blitz" anyone? That worked.

Insert any number of "resting on laurels, if you are not improving.......ect" quotes and there goes....... "it worked in the past" excuse.

Smart money says you are probably not talking to Randy Moss. However, ya might want to ask him if it's realistically possible that a Patriot or NFL offense might "evolve".

Is it possible that might be in play vs a pathological need to "win" at "everything"?

It's obvious that Welker wasn't a "Huh" to Belichick. Like giving a 2nd says that.

It's also not the point.

WW was identified by BB while in relative obscurity. Somehow, on the road to indispensibility, it appears that BB in now simply, and magically incapable of identifying similiar, replacement talent.

Or does "it worked in the past" only apply when you want it to apply?

An excellent indication that a period of reflection is needed is when one finds themself on the verge of agreement with an idiot like Felger.

How about waiting through camp and pre-season to see the totallity before making indictments against management?
 
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There is NOTHING head scratching about the way the Pats are handling this.

Agree with all the points in your post. Welker (likely with prompting from his agent) wants to get paid like his production last year will continue uninterrupted for the next 3 years. The Pats want to pay Welker like that production will start to slowly decline and his role may need to be replaced as early as 2014. Is anyone surprised by either perspective?

The real contentious part appears to be the possibility of losing Welker after this year. The Pats appear willing to let him walk if he doesn't come down off his number. Fans seem to blow a gasket at that prospect. I have 2 thoughts on this:

1) The Pats aren't holding back on Welker just to pocket the cash. They have a plan (Hernandez, Vollmer, Chung, likely UFAs) on how that cap space needs to be used. Pay Welker what he wants and they can't build the team according to their plan.

2) The Pats have a Plan B if Welker isn't there in 2013. They could directly replace Welker's role with someone already on the team (Edelperson, Ebert, Gaffney), an UFA (Amendola, Knox) or through the draft (Austin, Swope). Or they could replace Welker's production with a number of different roles...Hernandez in the slot, flexing out a RB like Vereen, more 2 TE sets with 2 true outside receivers, etc.

Basically the Pats have a plan and are prepared if Welker is/isn't a part of it. Doesn't mean the plan is smart or will work...just like it doesn't mean giving Welker what he wants is smart or will produce expected results. The Pats have to weigh the possibilities and do what is best for the team. Just like Welker has to check his alternatives (get what he can from the Pats vs. face UFA as a 32 yo small WR with lots of tread off his tires) and do what is best for him.

So what's the compromise? I think its that the Pats get their number as far as the guarantee goes, while Welker gets his number in the end IF he continues his high level of play. The end result would be a 4 year deal at around $6MM/yr that could go as high as 9MM/yr IF he hits his incentives With $15MM guaranteed and a $10MM signing bonus.

Sounds reasonable for the Pats. Not so much for Welker if he truly believes that a team in 2013 will give him a 3-year deal with lots of guaranteed money. I guess we will find out this weekend.

If he didn't take that deal, plan B would be to have him have a great year this season and let him test the FA waters in 2013 as a 32 year old small slot receiver....and promise not to franchise him.

I agree with others that the Pats shouldn't take the franchise tag off the table in this case. There really is no need to do it since Welker is in camp and facing a contract year. He doesn't need any additional incentives so why give him one. It would effectively send a signal to Welker that the Pats are ready to move on in 2013 and could complicate things if Welker doesn't find the grass/cash greener as an UFA. While that may be accurate, it doesn't seem like good business to do something like this unless it is needed (like with Asante).
 
There is NOTHING head scratching about the way the Pats are handling this. I read the article, and what I read was a great case on why Welker deserved every penny he was paid over the last 5 years, and why he DESERVES to be paid $9.3MM for this season.

Here is the crux of our differing points of view. You clearly believe that Welker should be paid what he wants (lets assume its $21MM guaranteed, on some kind of multi-year contract), because of what he's done in the past, while I believe he should be paid for what the Pats expect he will produce in the future (and right now that is reportedly $15MM guaranteed).

The fact that Welker's not the kind of guy who will let big money affect his play is totally irrelevant. (though its a great character trait). The Pats are dealing with a LOT of realities in this negotiation. the reality of the possibility of a quick decline that happens to most WRs of Welker's size. The reality of the wear and tear on his body over a 9 year NFL career. The reality of how that $6MM could be used elsewhere in building the team. The reality of how a long term deal for Welker at HIS price would affect the entire salary structure of the team.

Again there is NOTHING head scratching at all about how and why the Pats are approaching this negotiation. They can't afford the luxury of overpaying for past performance. Short term its emotionally satisfying. Doing the "right thing" and all that. But we've "been there and done that" back in the 90's, and it didn't work out well.

No question Welker outperformed his last contract. That's why I don't have problem paying him the $9.3MM THIS year, but paying him that much and more going forward is NOT sound cap management. Even you would have to admit that.

As far as I'm concerned you can give him any kind of LT contract. I don't care about the years. I don't care about the incentives. If he keeps playing at an equally high level as he has in the last 5 years in 2013 and beyond, I'd be happy to pay him at a high level HOWEVER as far as GUARANTEED money, I wouldn't be willing to commit beyond that $15MM that's reportedly on the table now

So what's the compromise? I think its that the Pats get their number as far as the guarantee goes, while Welker gets his number in the end IF he continues his high level of play. The end result would be a 4 year deal at around $6MM/yr that could go as high as 9MM/yr IF he hits his incentives With $15MM guaranteed and a $10MM signing bonus.

If he didn't take that deal, plan B would be to have him have a great year this season and let him test the FA waters in 2013 as a 32 year old small slot receiver....and promise not to franchise him.




In which case Welker should play out his deal for this year, refuse to ever sign with the Patriots again, and make certain he doesn't get hurt for the long term by sitting out anytime he has any kind of injury that could turn into something worse by playing.

If I am Tom Brady watching this I NEVER give them any kind of discount again and start playing hardball with them immediately.


I don't know if the Patriots front office holds the same views as the fans who openly pine for the Patriots to screw Welker as hard as possible but if they do they too should go screw themselves, this is disgraceful. I have never seen a player do so much and give their all as Welker has only to have people openly cheering for the team to bend him over and screw as hard as possible. It's a disgrace, and the more I listen the more repulsed I become at many Patriot fans.
 
In which case Welker should play out his deal for this year, refuse to ever sign with the Patriots again, and make certain he doesn't get hurt for the long term by sitting out anytime he has any kind of injury that could turn into something worse by playing.

If I am Tom Brady watching this I NEVER give them any kind of discount again and start playing hardball with them immediately.


I don't know if the Patriots front office holds the same views as the fans who openly pine for the Patriots to screw Welker as hard as possible but if they do they too should go screw themselves, this is disgraceful. I have never seen a player do so much and give their all as Welker has only to have people openly cheering for the team to bend him over and screw as hard as possible. It's a disgrace, and the more I listen the more repulsed I become at many Patriot fans.

Too bad Ian doesn't have a cross around here.

Looks like someone needs to climb up on one and nail themself to it.

The fundamental problem is less what "fans" want vs some "fans" being oblivious to the fundamental facts and traits inherent in the team they supposedly follow.

It should be obvious already that the NFL is a big boy game and a big boy business. If it isn't obvious....take note.

Otherwise, there's always the Icecapades.
 
I don't know if the Patriots front office holds the same views as the fans who openly pine for the Patriots to screw Welker as hard as possible but if they do they too should go screw themselves, this is disgraceful. I have never seen a player do so much and give their all as Welker has only to have people openly cheering for the team to bend him over and screw as hard as possible. It's a disgrace, and the more I listen the more repulsed I become at many Patriot fans.

Well, I don't think paying him $9.5 million is such a bad thing for the Patriots to do and you probably don't either. So it's just a matter of figuring out exactly what his long term worth is.

What's the big deal of taking the 9.5 million, playing out the year and then seeing what he's worth next year? If he stays healthy and is productive, he wins by being able to earn more money than a contract this year would give him. If that doesn't happen, he loses out. Personally, I think most teams give out too much guaranteed money to players that don't live up to it so I'm glad that the Patriots are avoiding that trend. That being said, I think a 3-year deal of $24 million with about $18 million guaranteed would be about right. Or Wes can earn a lot more if he stays healthy and productive.
 
Business is business.

If the patriots are unwilling to take the risk of a long term contract now, then I would expect Welker to go to someone else next year. There are very likely be higher bidders than the patriots if he has a solid year.

In a sense, if Welker isn't worth a top 3-4 year contract now, there is little that Welker can do to "show them" during the season. He has already done that.

They don't have to promise not to franchise him...he's already signed his tag and reported. Everyone who gets to this level and succeeds has an ego. Here guys are asked to check it at the door, and Welker certainly has. But there are limits to how long guys will continue to do that, especially if they feel they have been taken advantage of or their efforts have not been acknowledged or appreciated. Sometimes that leads to a situation where a player will choose to move on even for a dollar less (or despite a dollar more). It would be unfortunate if they turn Welker into that guy, the one they have no shot at retaining because they've just alienated him past the point of no return.
 
Business is business.

In a sense, if Welker isn't worth a top 3-4 year contract now, there is little that Welker can do to "show them" during the season. He has already done that.

Exactly. The only difference between Welker this year and next is that he'll be a year older. Either a contract gets done now or it doesn't get done.

Deion shoud sit him down and explain the pain of leaving the perfect system for you in the quest for a few extra bucks (I always hear that money is different to pro athletes than to us so $6 million can be safely classified as a few).

I expected Wes to get Moss' last contract with the Pats, 3-$30 but he does take such a pounding you wonder how long he'll last.
 
Well, I don't think paying him $9.5 million is such a bad thing for the Patriots to do and you probably don't either. So it's just a matter of figuring out exactly what his long term worth is.

What's the big deal of taking the 9.5 million, playing out the year and then seeing what he's worth next year? If he stays healthy and is productive, he wins by being able to earn more money than a contract this year would give him. If that doesn't happen, he loses out. Personally, I think most teams give out too much guaranteed money to players that don't live up to it so I'm glad that the Patriots are avoiding that trend. That being said, I think a 3-year deal of $24 million with about $18 million guaranteed would be about right. Or Wes can earn a lot more if he stays healthy and productive.


The problem is that it gives him no security whatsoever, and while business may be business there is also something to be said for giving it their all, playing hurt and going well beyond expectations, and Welkert has done all of that. I make exceptions for certain players who go way beyond and exemplify everything a team would ask for, an d Welker, like Brady, bruschi, Faulk, and others is one of those cases. For people to act like the team should simply play pure hardball is a disgrace to me and I have little to no respect for that. I'm not saying that's your position TS but it certainly the position of many here who fancy themselves as faux GM's. Managing money well is very important, being bastards to their best players may be penny wise but overall it is really stupid. The players know it and will react to it down the line.
 
The problem is that it gives him no security whatsoever, and while business may be business there is also something to be said for giving it their all, playing hurt and going well beyond expectations, and Welkert has done all of that. I make exceptions for certain players who go way beyond and exemplify everything a team would ask for, an d Welker, like Brady, bruschi, Faulk, and others is one of those cases. For people to act like the team should simply play pure hardball is a disgrace to me and I have little to no respect for that. I'm not saying that's your position TS but it certainly the position of many here who fancy themselves as faux GM's. Managing money well is very important, being bastards to their best players may be penny wise but overall it is really stupid. The players know it and will react to it down the line.
WTF! No security?????? :rolleyes: After this season, Welker would have made more than $28MM in his 6 years with the Pats. How much freakin' security does he NEED at this point. And as far as being "bastards" to their best players.....How DARE those bastards in the Pats front office who would insult Welker by offering him a long term deal that gives him more than 100% raise with most of it guaranteed. :rolleyes:

And as to how the other players will react to Welker getting less than he wants, stop being naive. You have clearly forgotten the first rule of capology. For every dollar that the Pats give Welker over budget, is one less dollar for everyone else. So tell me Ivan, who do you want to play LESS down the road. Should we let Hernandez, Volmer and Chung walk? Should we tell Andre Carter that we can't afford to bring back our best defensive player from last season?

Most of us learned the hard way in the 90's that you can't pay everyone what they want, but you CAN pay most what they need, and if that's not enough, then you move on. Its a philosophy that's served the Pats very well for over the last decade, sorry you want to go back to the bad old days.
 
And as to how the other players will react to Welker getting less than he wants, stop being naive. You have clearly forgotten the first rule of capology. For every dollar that the Pats give Welker over budget, is one less dollar for everyone else. So tell me Ivan, who do you want to play LESS down the road. Should we let Hernandez, Volmer and Chung walk? Should we tell Andre Carter that we can't afford to bring back our best defensive player from last season?

This is the angle that is so frustrating when discussing the Pats negotiating. They spend to the cap (with a reasonable buffer) pretty much every year. If the Pats are allocated $128M to spend, the players are getting that money. Kraft is not pocketing it to finance his acting career.

The Pats have managed the salary cap pretty well in the Brady years. That has required letting some expensive core players go (Asante, Seymour) to allow other core players to be retained at market value (Brady, Mankins, Gronk, Wilfork, Mayo). We will find out in the next day or so if the Pats consider Welker part of the latter group (doesn't seem like it), the former group (that is really up to Welker to decide) or the vast middle class that keeps the Pats in the championship hunt every year.
 
I hope both sides are burning the midnite oil to come to a 2-3 yr agreement that is fair to both sides. :rocker:
 
Well, I don't think paying him $9.5 million is such a bad thing for the Patriots to do and you probably don't either. So it's just a matter of figuring out exactly what his long term worth is.

What's the big deal of taking the 9.5 million, playing out the year and then seeing what he's worth next year? If he stays healthy and is productive, he wins by being able to earn more money than a contract this year would give him. If that doesn't happen, he loses out. Personally, I think most teams give out too much guaranteed money to players that don't live up to it so I'm glad that the Patriots are avoiding that trend. That being said, I think a 3-year deal of $24 million with about $18 million guaranteed would be about right. Or Wes can earn a lot more if he stays healthy and productive.

Seems to me like the Patriots have already decided what his long-term worth is. And it's a lot less than Welker thinks it should be. Remember, though, the Pats stick to their assigned value of a player more closely than just about anyone else in the league. If Welker thinks he's worth $2-3M per year more than the Pats do, then a new deal is extremely unlikely. I know a bunch of people here don'e like that, since it's Welker and all, but they're not treating him any differently than they've treated pretty much everyone else when their contract came up.
 
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