Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Nov 8, 2011.
After Giants game, Haynesworth had to go - Extra Points - Boston.com
You can't disagree with Bedards assessment. The problem lies with how did we get there. Anybody who has ever coached/managed knows that when you are competing at the highest level many elite talented players are head strong, prima dona's and highly selfish. The job of the man at the top is to determine who fits both talent wise as well as personality wise. This is another example of a major failure. We'll have posters say well he didnt cost much. He only cost a future fifth rounder, but AH was supposed to be a fix for a crappy D-line. We see how that worked out.
Cutting players is one thing but when will the coaches and front office guys start taking responsibility for this mess?
What were you thinking? Self-flagellation in Faneuil Hall, with the proceeds going to charity?
This is perhaps the worst pass defense in NFL history...if this happened on any other team a lot of people would be losing their jobs. On the Patriots, however, BB obviously dictates who stays and goes and something tells me the same people will be there next fall.
This is why I dont get all the crying from posters here about BB cutting haynesworth.
if he is clearly dogging it out there and not giving an effort, what is the point of keeping him on the team?? what sort of message does that send to other players that are trying hard??
with Brace/Deadrick back we are 5deep at the DT position. I would much rather give the snaps to someone who WANTS to put in the effort.
the Haynesworth acquisition was a low risk high reward signing...it didnt work out..but our defense wont be affected by it
Yes. Since you know him so well, obviously it is BB's massive ego and unbridled arrogance that is holding the team back.
Our record must be 0-8.
Didn't I precisely say that the Pats had one of the worst pass defenses in NFL history and not one of the overall teams? Statistically that would be correct too because this group is allowing well over 300 yards per game and no team in NFL history has allowed more than 284 yards/game in a full season.
Obviously you know absolutely zero about management.
A much better example is venture capital.
Identify unique opportunities for exceptional success.
Invest with minimal cost.
If successful, enjoy the rewards.
If not, exit and move on.
Had this been Haynes Albertworth, I doubt the story would even make it to profootballtalk based on the dynamics of the deal.
Furthermore, if you are dumb enough to actually think AH was here to "fix" it, there would have been zero need to sign Carter and Ellis. Furthermore, the compensation would have been much greater than a low round pick and a very minimal salary.
Outside of your post, there aren't any major failures here.
First off what mess? this team hasn't had a losing season since 2000.
And BB always utters the words out coached after a loss so not sure where you get this idea he ducks responsibility.
Bottom line I don't care how many draft picks bust and free agents fail so long as they still win.
I really can't believe how critical people are of BB right now. I have heard/read fire BB comments and it is absolutely aabsurd
If you are in Baltimore, I would bet you might have heard of the Ravens.
Here is a challenge for you.
Review that stats produced by the Ravens and Patriots defense in back to back weeks in Pittsburgh.
Review and explain the statistical differences. That would be very interesting.
The mess on defense. Once again, this defense is easily on pace to become statistically the worst pass defense ever. Normally defensive coordinators get fired for much less. Just look at what happened to the Giants defensive coordinator that replaced Steve Spag and the Eagles guy that followed Jim Johnson. BB is obviously the defensive coordinator here and do you honestly see him giving up on calling the defensive plays sometime this season or even next fall?
Ahh, I didn't ask for another brain dead post.
I'm not questioning your mastery of that format
Let me repeat the challenge.
Review and post the defensive stats for the Baltimore and New England defenses in back to back weeks in Pittsburgh. Here are the specific info requested:
Third down conversion
Arian Foster rushed for 155 yards against the Steelers and for 68 yards against the Raiders. Going by your logic, I guess the Raiders D is much better than the Steelers D. What matters is a body of work, not one game, and the Patriots pass defense has been absolutely pitiful for all 8 games this season.
I wasn't even responding to you in that post.
If BB is good enough to field a winning team despite the obvious deficiencies in the passing d then that is enough for me. The game is about scoring more than you let the other team not keeping them to an arbitrary yardage that a good d and in turn a good d coordinator should allow.
At some point just a winning record is not enough (see Fisher) but Fisher parlayed one SB loss and perennial competing into a 15 year Job so IMO BB has earned much more from us. And I am embarrassed by fellow Patriots fans thinking his time may have passed.
Some clown in Baltimore is sitting at his computer posting nonsense at patsfans.com.....and he knows it.
Let me repeat the challenge.
The Patriots and Ravens played in Pittsburgh back to back weeks. The ONLY credible way to judge the two units is under identical situations.
That's basic science. that's basic logic
Get the stats, with emphasis on the following:
Thanks to Brady it is not but t has nothing to do with our Defense
If you honestly believe the two defenses are similar based on ONE GAME from each even though the Ravens D can justifiably claim that "Ben had a big game throwing the ball" while the Pats D can't make the same excuse because it has allowed literally anyone with an arm to throw for 300+ yards on them for half of a season, I give up. You win. You're the guy sitting in front of a computer somewhere in Pittsburgh and I hope you feel proud about yourself.
That's not really the problem.
The problem here is that posters simply refuse to understand the timeless, universal concept that the single greatest determining factor of a football game is turnovers, turnover differential, and red zone turnovers.
I suspect the reason behind this is the absolute refusal to acknowledge that the offense is primarily to blame and a good portion of that falls on the QB.
Many fans here both complain that everyone makes excuses for Peyton Manning and then do the exact same thing for Brady.
Here is a question to ponder.
If Bledsoe had the exact same day on Sunday, where to you think patsfans.com would be?
Losing is a team effort and Brady has had his hand in losses with his turnovers. But I am ok with Brady as I am BB and this D so long as they win more than they lose hopefully that gets you in the playoffs and maybe a bye. then hopefully we can win 3 or 4 playoff games.
Yup, simply can't man up.
Throw in the Jets games
I am glad that BB acccepts that something is not working and end it instead of dragging it on and on to save face.
BB is not going to hold a press conference to admit it was a mistake, but cutting the guy midseason pretty much sends the same message.
You failed basic science and basic logic.
It really, really isn't.
Basic experimental science revolves around eliminating the variables. Football games are not played in lab conditions. The number of variables that change from week to week, from individual play to injuries to coaching decisions to play environment to random dumb chance, are legion.
There's a saying in statistical scientific analysis, however, that bears repeating: 'An N of 1 doesn't mean a damn thing.' Weird things can happen in any given instance, which is why looking at general trends and data aglomerates is safer and more accurate than looking at one instance and inferring a trend.
TL;DR: You are dead wrong. Balmerfan is right. The Pats defense is horrifically bad, on pace to be historically bad, and any attempt to compare the Ravens outstanding defense with the Pats' inevitably takes so much homery contortions that you probably need to see a chiropractor after every post.
Does the fact that our D-line sucks a problem for you?
I was thinking the same thing. The reason why the crappy d and poor personnel decisions are so frustrating is even at 34, Brady is still the best QB in the AFC! Maybe still the best in the league.
That may be true, but he isn't playing like it this year. Despite being put into very difficult situations due to the offense turning the ball over four times, they still only gave up 24 points. As for the pass defense, they held Manning to just a hair over 50% completions and were constantly harassing him and knocking him down.
While the defense as a whole and the pass defense in particular is indeed subpar, this last game is a very poor example for pointing blame in their direction. The zeal of this forum to point fingers at the defense is unfounded this week. So too is the oft-repeated 'Brady is the best, that's why it's frustrating' refrain, because he has been far from the league's best quarterback this season.
Blah, blah, blah
However, if you're an idiot, what else can you say? Is anyone dumb enough to believe it?
Here are ACTUAL facts for you and numbnuts to ponder.
PITTSBURGH OFFENSE vs (?) vs (?)
Points 20 23
Effective points 20 16
Total Yards 392 427
Yards Passing 322 329
ThirdDown 7-12 58% 10-16 61%
Sacks 1 5
Turnovers 1 1
(situation) stopped drive set ballup a 8 yardline
First downs 20 29
TOP 39:22 20:38
Situational 6 points first half 6 points second half
puked up 10 point allowed 17 1st half
lead 4th qtr points
"ANY ATTEMPT TO COMPARE THE RAVENS OUTSTANDING DEFENSE WITH THE PATS TAKES SO MUCH HOMERY DISTORTIONS.......BECAUSE IF YOU ACTUALLY COMPARED ACTUAL PERFORMANCE AGAINST A COMMON OPPONENT PLAYING THE EXACT SAME PLAYERS UNDER THE SAME CONDITIONS IT WOULD SHOW
Statistically the performaces were very similiar
If the performances were similiar, how can us idiots keep blaming the loss on totally on the defense?
Why exactly did one team win and the other lose? What about the offenses?
POINTS 23 17
TOTAL YARDS 356 213
YARDS PASSING 289 170
SACKS 3 3
TURNOVERS 1 0
THIRD DOWN 14-21 67% 3-10 30%
SACKS 3 3
TOP 33:59 20:38
Gee, there are some differences here. Wonder which team won.
Must be the infinate, contemperal, peripheral, hydrogenated variable instituted permutations confined within the variable comparative work sets.
Great insight there, Einstein
How ever you want to butter it up.
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