Baldinger: BB's style of defense wont win c'ships

[reflexblue]

Exactly.

And this time he is going to eat his words.

As I have said elsewhere, Miami was a benchmark win for the D. It was their best game to date. For the most part, everyone was on the same page, doing their jobs, remembering their alignments, AOR, and covering their zones.

Now with the bye coming up right after such a big victory, I view it as the right time for BB to take the D to the next level, and install a whole new level of complexity, e.g., disguise, interchangeable assignments, and pre-snap decoys.

It's the perfect time- they're confident, and they're finally buying into the coaching.

And it pretty much is a given that they have to do this anyway, because Pees is the DC for Baltimore and he will most certainly clue them in on our basic defensive tendencies. Now is the time to disguise them.

I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few zones suddenly elapse into man coverage.

I agree, i think the pats will beat the Ravens handily. Not only have gained confidence but BB has had Two weeks to game plan. Both BB and TB have long memories and they will be out for revenge for the beat down the Ravens put on them. From the owner on down that was one of the most embarrassing defeats of the Kraft/Belichick/Brady era.

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree, i think the pats will beat the Ravens handily. Not only have gained confidence but BB has had Two weeks to game plan. Both BB and TB have long memories and they will be out for revenge for the beat down the Ravens put on them. From the owner on down that was one of the most embarrassing defeats of the Kraft/Belichick/Brady era.

Aside from the 31-0 schellacking at the hands of Buffalo to kick off 2003, I'm hard pressed to remember a defeat any more embarrassing.

 

[Nikolai]

Aside from the 31-0 schellacking at the hands of Buffalo to kick off 2003, I'm hard pressed to remember a defeat any more embarrassing.

The 2004 loss at Miami comes to mind, but yes, your point is valid. That was one of the worst defeats the Pats have experienced in the Belichick era. We'll owe them for that.

 

[Kontradiction]

The 2004 loss at Miami comes to mind, but yes, your point is valid. That was one of the worst defeats the Pats have experienced in the Belichick era. We'll owe them for that.

:ugh: How could I forget. I was actually at that game too. 2006 at Miami sucked as well.

 

[SVN]

:ugh: How could I forget. I was actually at that game too. 2006 at Miami sucked as well.

2004 @pitt was bad too when the streak ended. the 2004 miami game was just tomfoolery...

 

[SVN]

Personally I don't think Baldinger is off the mark in some parts of his assessment. The game has changed a lot since the Superbowl wins. The changes in the rules and the interpretation of them, plus as a whole WRs are bigger stronger and faster than in the past. All that makes it much harder to play straight zone defenses, and requires defenses to become more aggressive in response.

Where I think Baldinger is off the mark, is his opinion that BB hasn't adjusted to the times. Maybe not to the degree that we are now copying the Jets and Steelers, but to think he isn't disguising his D's or letting them go more than in the past isn't factual

if iam not wrong the rules and interpretation of them was bought into effect after 2003 after which pats won 1 SB and gone to 1 more .
another example is the chiefs defense. anyone who saw how romeo running the same scheme more or less, confused out manning with his young D can see that it works, just needs better players and signal callers.BB is stretched thin in both departments. Young players and young coaches.

 

[Kontradiction]

2004 @pitt was bad too when the streak ended. the 2004 miami game was just tomfoolery...

To me, the Pittsburgh game in 2004 wasn't that bad. I remember thinking that we were really banged up and that the streak had to end sometime after the game. Pittsburgh took advantage.

 

[SVN]

To me, the Pittsburgh game in 2004 wasn't that bad. I remember thinking that we were really banged up and that the streak had to end sometime after the game. Pittsburgh took advantage.

i think we were in okay shape..just gave up a ton of pts in the first quarter to the brady int and long pass to burress etc...kinda like the baltimore game ..the game seemed over by the first half..miami game the pats just gave it to them in the last few mins

 

[Bostonian1962]

I love when BB has everybody up on the D, moving in and out, and not showing their set, and who is going to be covering who. They did that to Indy Manning to great success, because Manning is about studying the D, and working off what he saw. When it was disguised like that it made it hard.

That said, they did that in the first half against Cinncy, with great success. They didn't do it much against Miami, and Miami moved the ball, although didn't put up alot of points.

My Point: Baldinger is wrong when he says BB doesn't disguise the defense anymore. He doesn't do it as much, but perhaps it's the young group of personnel that influences that.

 

[captain stone]

I like it when people think BB's a step behind, like the game has passed him by, that usually means he's two steps ahead of everyone esle and they dont know it yet.

Yeah, right.

 

[captain stone]

So, it's that time of year again, eh?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/283197-brian-baldinger-belichicks-defense-outdated.html

EDIT: Almost a year to the day!

And just how well did this defense perform last year?

 

[groundgame]

Baldinger is a notorious Jets homer, like me!

He sounded like he worked for the Jets: Jets best team in football & Noticeably flustered when Brett's problem brought-up, saying issue is a non-issue because it occured on Mangini's watch. However, he was very interesting, and convinced the Pat's sit-back, zone defense will be not get it done again.

What Baldinger liked about the Patriots offense is their committment to run the football, as it was his opinion that a pass happy team will not win the SB.

 

[captain stone]

Personally I don't think Baldinger is off the mark in some parts of his assessment. The game has changed a lot since the Superbowl wins. The changes in the rules and the interpretation of them, plus as a whole WRs are bigger stronger and faster than in the past. All that makes it much harder to play straight zone defenses, and requires defenses to become more aggressive in response.

Where I think Baldinger is off the mark, is his opinion that BB hasn't adjusted to the times. Maybe not to the degree that we are now copying the Jets and Steelers, but to think he isn't disguising his D's or letting them go more than in the past isn't factual.

I agree, esp. with the first paragraph.

In order to win in today's Goodell/NaPolian ****ified NFL, you need a Pro-Bowl-calibre QB, an across-the-board-talented OL to protect him, and a defense that can Kill the QB. We simply do not have the talent
on defense (or at OL, but that's the subject of another thread) to Kill the QB, or win championships.

There is nobody at all on the DL who can provide pressure, exc. maybe Wright & Pryor but only as 4-3 DTs against inferior interior OLs.
(BTW, Kyle Love belongs on the PS, not on the 53.)
And in the case of the OLBs, experience alone might not help help them improve. TBC is plenty experienced, and Ninko's ceiling has just about been reached. So if the 2 Cs haven't greatly improved by Thanksgiving,
then fuhgeddaboudit.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I agree, esp. with the first paragraph.

In order to win in today's Goodell/NaPolian ****ified NFL, you need a Pro-Bowl-calibre QB, an across-the-board-talented OL to protect him, and a defense that can Kill the QB. We simply do not have the talent
on defense (or at OL, but that's the subject of another thread) to Kill the QB, or win championships.

There is nobody at all on the DL who can provide pressure, exc. maybe Wright & Pryor but only as 4-3 DTs against inferior interior OLs.
(BTW, Kyle Love belongs on the PS, not on the 53.)
And in the case of the OLBs, experience alone might not help help them improve. TBC is plenty experienced, and Ninko's ceiling has just about been reached. So if the 2 Cs haven't greatly improved by Thanksgiving,
then fuhgeddaboudit.

"Analysis" that can only develop under the influence of the idiot media.

how many sacks did the Saints have in the Super Bowl?

Why did the Steelers defense put up the biggest collapse in Super Bowl history only to be bailed out by Big Ben?

David Tyree?

Colts defense?

Defense today is about turnovers and confusing the offense. The concept of "pressure" and "sacks" and "kill the QB" are pushed by mediots because it's an easy sell with the easily duped fan.

The "pressure" defenses look better because they pad their stats against inferior opponents.

 

[Goal_Line_Stand]

Baldinger on D&H: 'The fear factor is gone'

although i strongly disagree because he thinks bb's scheme is too simple but it isnt ,just lacks those good past players ....but iam sure a lot here will agree to this theory.

Didn't Ron Borges write the same store a few days later?

 

[AzPatsFan]

So, it's that time of year again, eh?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...an-baldinger-belichicks-defense-outdated.html

EDIT: Almost a year to the day!

The baying pack said the same about Paul Brown in Cleveland and Don Shula in Miami. They succeeded in getting both guys out.

Neither team has been back to a Superbowl game in 1/4 to 1/2 a century! Meanwhile Paul Brown built and expansion club from nothing, and went to a Superbowl. Outdated? Yeah Sure!

Baldinger is outdated.

Incidentally, have you noted that the big passing teams are all having problems this season? Belichick anticipates the League, and its adjusting to the spread and pure passing oriented Offenses. Ryan's return of a modified 46 pressure D, seems to work, right now. But if you recall, the League adjusted in about a season and a half to his Daddy's overload pressure Defense.
Moss hasn't lost his speed but he has lost his momentary acceleration, and ability to separate, on long routes. Better a year too soon, versus a year too late.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Interesting. I remember watching PlayBook in 07 and he was praising how versatile and deceptive the Pats D was.

"Analysis" that can only develop under the influence of the idiot media.

how many sacks did the Saints have in the Super Bowl?

Why did the Steelers defense put up the biggest collapse in Super Bowl history only to be bailed out by Big Ben?

David Tyree?

Colts defense?

Defense today is about turnovers and confusing the offense. The concept of "pressure" and "sacks" and "kill the QB" are pushed by mediots because it's an easy sell with the easily duped fan.

The "pressure" defenses look better because they pad their stats against inferior opponents.

He does have a point. Look at the last three Super Bowl champs. Saints, steelers, giants all had pressure based defenses. Maybe the Steelers D wasnt great in the super bowl, but it was dominant all season and got them there. Ravens, jets, philly have recently been to the conference championship game and play aggressively defenses.

They pad their stats and the Pats dont? Please, the Pats are the biggest abusers of padding stats on both sides of the ball. 59-0 vs titans, 35-7 vs the Bucs, etc. Any time this team played a good offense it got ***** slapped - Colts, saints, etc.

Say what you want about Baldinger, but I think he has avalid point. Pressure defenses create more turnovers. What teams have given our offense the most trouble over the last few years? 07 it was Philly, Ravens, Giants, and a little from San Diego. 08 it was Pitt, SD. 09 it was NYJ, Denver, Saints, Baltimore. This year so far it was the Jets. All those defenses were/are aggressive and pressure based.

You can still have a good D with Bill's philosophy, just look at what Romeo did to Manning last week. You need very good execution and talented personnel in key areas. We dont have players like Flowers, Hali, and Vrabel -- yet. We are rebuilding.

 

[JackBauer]

We dont have players like Flowers, Hali, and Vrabel -- yet. We are rebuilding.

No, we have a better player in Mayo.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Interesting. I remember watching PlayBook in 07 and he was praising how versatile and deceptive the Pats D was.



He does have a point. Look at the last three Super Bowl champs. Saints, steelers, giants all had pressure based defenses. Maybe the Steelers D wasnt great in the super bowl, but it was dominant all season and got them there. Ravens, jets, philly have recently been to the conference championship game and play aggressively defenses.

They pad their stats and the Pats dont? Please, the Pats are the biggest abusers of padding stats on both sides of the ball. 59-0 vs titans, 35-7 vs the Bucs, etc. Any time this team played a good offense it got ***** slapped - Colts, saints, etc.

Say what you want about Baldinger, but I think he has avalid point. Pressure defenses create more turnovers. What teams have given our offense the most trouble over the last few years? 07 it was Philly, Ravens, Giants, and a little from San Diego. 08 it was Pitt, SD. 09 it was NYJ, Denver, Saints, Baltimore. This year so far it was the Jets. All those defenses were/are aggressive and pressure based.

You can still have a good D with Bill's philosophy, just look at what Romeo did to Manning last week. You need very good execution and talented personnel in key areas. We dont have players like Flowers, Hali, and Vrabel -- yet. We are rebuilding.

79

It's a matter of degree.

Ofcourse, a defense has to bring pressure. However, there is a difference between blitzing from different directions at different times with different players as part of a whole "confuse the QB" gameplan.

He's a "bring the house" mediot.

Against elite QB's, you have to get pressure up the middle. If you "bring the house" as Baldinger advocates, elite QB's will destroy it.

That's the reason why the Steelers rack up stats against inferior QB's but get lit up by elite QB's. Baldinger makes it sound like we rush 3 and passively sit in a zone. The Steelers also continue "pressure" long after we would settle into a softer zone/ prevent mode. That doesn't help the stats.

On the Tyree catch, we didn't have pressure on Manning?

 

[VJCPatriot]

What Baldinger liked about the Patriots offense is their committment to run the football, as it was his opinion that a pass happy team will not win the SB.

Tell that to the Colts and Saints and Pats. We leaving anyone else out? That just leaves the Steelers.

The Steelers are the only run 'dominant' team to win the SB in the past 10 years. And the last time they won it was in a shootout vs Arizona where Roethlisberger had to win it with his arm on one of the most memorable gamewinning SB TD passes ever to Holmes in the endzone.