Asante's asking to be traded?

[VJCPatriot]

I wouldn't exactly call Asante a shut down corner.

As far as 5-7 range, here are seven CBs I'd rate higher than him:

Chris McAlister
Champ Bailey
Nate Clements
Dre Bly
DeAngelo Hall
Antoine Winfield
Dunta Robinson

Not to say that Asante is not a good corner. He is good, and I like him a lot, and I hope we keep him, but there are a lot of Pro Bowl CBs out there.

I would not put him in the top 10, more like around 15 or so.

He will be a valuable member of the Pats, adn I hope we keep him, but let's not confuse him with Champ Bailey.

And Asante Samuel is also 5 years younger than half of those guys. And you can't seriously imply that Bly is better. The point is Asante is in his prime and at least a top 10 corner, if not top 5. You can't get these kinds of players in free agency unless you do what the 9ers did and overpay 8/80M. Let's be honest Asante's value is at its PEAK. This is a good thing for Asante and the Patriots in terms of potential value in a deal. However that may also mean he will not be suiting up for us next season.

 

[jbb9s]

I wouldn't exactly call Asante a shut down corner.

As far as 5-7 range, here are seven CBs I'd rate higher than him:

Chris McAlister
Champ Bailey
Nate Clements
Dre Bly
DeAngelo Hall
Antoine Winfield
Dunta Robinson

Not to say that Asante is not a good corner. He is good, and I like him a lot, and I hope we keep him, but there are a lot of Pro Bowl CBs out there.

I would not put him in the top 10, more like around 15 or so.

He will be a valuable member of the Pats, adn I hope we keep him, but let's not confuse him with Champ Bailey.

I was saying over the next 5 years, he could climb into the 5-7 range. This is based on his age and his steady improvement since his rookie year. In 2007, he was surely not in the top 10 and maybe not in 2008 either. But 2009,2010 maybe so. Also, Dre Bly is not better than Asante.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

I guess it's better to find out now than after the draft.

I would feel fairly comfortable with Hobbs and a combo of Gay/Rookie or even Wilson at the other spot. I think we'd be fine.

But the probability of keeping all those guys healthy over the course of the season isn't very good. Someone will go down, possibly for an extended period of time. So say Hobbs, who is also a very solid player, gets hurt then we're down our top 2 CBs from a year ago. That's where we run into problems with letting Samuel walk. We might draft a guy who becomes the best CB in football, but how good will he be as a rookie? Or the year after? Those are the tough questions.

If he does go, a 1st round pick in 07 has to be in the equation IMO. A No. 1 in 2008 isn't going to help us cover Harrison, Wayne, Dallas Clark et al. this season.

 

[mgcolby]

I see a lot of extremes here.

Look, Asante isn't some garden-variety hack, and he's not the messiah either.

He doesn't have to be one or the other. He's a good player, and the Pats have a number they'll pay for him. Simple as that. Everything else is negotiations. Of course, there are also incentives, guaranteed money vs. APY (life of contract,) etc. These devices allow you to load risk in exchange for total dollars eventually pocketed, but everybody knows that the guaranteed money is where the hardcore negotiating is at, for the "Get Paid" set.

Maybe they make a deal. Maybe they do not. All I see is a good player that we don't want to lose. But we can move on if need be. It once again looks like that will be the case (as of this one interview... which of course, could just as likely be a tactic as an earnest declaration.)

Eh well. We'd love to see ya, Asante... but if you don't want a ring you don't want a ring.

PFnV

Exactly. He is a solid starter. Who is getting a ton of attention because of his picks and a weak FA market that has more demand than supply.

 

[Elway]

And Asante Samuel is also 5 years younger than half of those guys.

FWIW,

Samuel 26

Chris McAlister 29
Champ Bailey 28
Nate Clements 27
Dre Bly 29
DeAngelo Hall 23
Antoine Winfield 29
Dunta Robinson 24

 

[VJCPatriot]

It's not a novel idea when it's been mentioned 4 or 5 times previously already.

If you're going to be giving out 35M anyways why not pay to keep your franchise corner rather than another OLB? And no Briggs does not want to play ILB, he has been quoted as saying so. And besides it looks right now like BB is unwilling to shell out that 35M figure after the initial free agent spending spree.

FYI this draft is quite WEAK for CB's. The top CB in the draft, Leon Hall, is several notches in talent lower than Champ Bailey. And the talent is also shallow. Things get dicey after Hall. I like Revis quite a bit but he's probably going to go somewhere between 15-20 and is no sure bet. Ross, Houston, McCauley? Even lower odds although there will inevitably be a run on corners.

It's not a fair statement because Briggs is not an ILB. The talent at ILB is also weak in this draft and you don't get to the value picks till round 2-3. I'm not sold on Poz. I like Willis but you'll find plenty of his detractors as well. Beason, Timmons? Frankly, this draft looks disappointing for anything but Safeties and Wide Receivers.

Cousins,
Novel idea. Let's trade Samuel to the Bears for Briggs, a two time Pro Bowler who will play very well at ILB, thank you. We fill our ILB need and get younger there with a established elite player. Samuel had never been to a Pro Bowl.

I have a question out there? Don't you make this trade, pay Briggs. A. Thomas type money and pick up a pair of young CB's in the draft. Now we wouldn't be desperate for a ILB. I think Briggs is worth more money. Who is the elite player, Briggs or Samuel?

Point is there are a hell of a lot more decent CBs' in the draft that ILB's who will have an impact like Briggs. Is that a fair statement?

Thoughts?
DW Toys

 

[jbb9s]

Re: Assante's asking to be traded?

Fair enough. Remix and others agree with you.

My opinion is that if we didn't have Samuel last year, but we did have thomas-stallworth-washington-welker-morris we would have won the superbowl.

Why can't we have both?!?!?!

Asante scored 2 more touchdowns in the playoffs this year than the RB who has been chosen to lead this team for the next 5 years. Unless you count the "kick pass" - then the deficit is reduced to one.

 

[mgcolby]

And Asante Samuel is also 5 years younger than half of those guys. And you can't seriously imply that Bly is better. The point is Asante is in his prime and at least a top 10 corner, if not top 5. You can't get these kinds of players in free agency unless you do what the 9ers did and overpay 8/80M. Let's be honest Asante's value is at its PEAK. This is a good thing for Asante and the Patriots in terms of potential value in a deal. However that may also mean he will not be suiting up for us next season.

You need to look beyond the picks. If you have some of the games taped I would go back and watch him again. 3 games come to mind the Bears, Lions and Jags game he missed multiple tackles gambling for the ball including a 40 yard bomb to Bernard Berrian going for a pick instead of knocking it away, a simple in cut for a TD against the Lions - because he was more interested in what was going on in the back field instead of what his man was doing and at least two 15+ yard plays due to missed tackles because he undercut the route looking for the pick without Safety help.

He is not a top 10 CB in the NFL.

 

[PushnPencils]

Picture this:

This holdout follows the Deion Branch model. He holds out until a week before season start and also because the Pat's have not received an offer worth his compensation. Finally you get you're 1st round pick for him in 08'.

Meanwhile, during the summer, their are no adequate Reche Caldwell versions of a cornerback that will adequately replace Samuels absence.

You get a rookie CB that best case scenario takes a while to acclimate to the league and the system.

Then let's throw a realistic scenario into the picture. You lose a Vrabel, Colvin or dare I say AD to injury for the year. This is football...it can happen.

Your chances of post season success are miniscule. You're planning for 08' at this point.

With Asante' at corner, defensively you are no worse last year. He may not be Champ Bailey, but IMHO he makes that much of a difference.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Assante's asking to be traded?

Why can't we have both?!?!?!

Asante scored 2 more touchdowns in the playoffs this year than the RB who has been chosen to lead this team for the next 5 years. Unless you count the "kick pass" - then the deficit is reduced to one.

Bad comparison, Maroney had injured ribs and an injured shoulder.

 

[VJCPatriot]

FWIW,

Samuel 26

Chris McAlister 29
Champ Bailey 28
Nate Clements 27
Dre Bly 29
DeAngelo Hall 23
Antoine Winfield 29
Dunta Robinson 24

Thanks for the list. Still doesn't change the fact that half of those players will be turning 30 next year, if they haven't already, and will likely be losing a step before their contracts are over. With Samuel you are getting a young player on the rise in his PRIME years. He's a more attractive talent for that reason.

 

[richpats]

Cousins,
Take all the drops aside in the Colts game. The play that turned it still involved Caldwell. It was the NON-PIP call in the endzone on him with 3 minutes left to go. Worse call in the game including the Hobbs and Brown call. It was awful! The announcers were even mystified. I bet anything in the world if it's Harrison or Wayne in the endzone, the field would look like the laundromat exploded or Polian gets out of his box and strangles Official Chief Perella. We get the ball on the one, first down with three minutes left. If we score Peyton now has to go TD not FG and the field game changes.

No Pats fan can even sweat the AFC Championship game after a no-call like that. The refs weren't going to call a fair game....just like the regular season match-up (sorry, Vrabel couldn't commit 'hands-to-the-face' with his hand on someone's hip).

If someone could edit together these 3 pass plays then they'd be horrified at the lack of fair calls in recent playoff games for NE:

1) PI on Samuel in the Denver game. Incidental contact on what is hardly a catchable ball....with the flag thrown 3 seconds after contact (and 1 second after the ball lands incomplete).

2) PI on Hobbs in the Indy game. No contact whatsoever.

3) No-call on Hayden in the 4th quarter. Clutching. Grabbing. Heartache for Pats fans.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Re: Assante's asking to be traded?

Before you wish too hard for Asante to leave town, ask yourself

who will replace him?

Ty Law left town... and he was MUCH better.

See ya later Asante... I always thought that this would happen.

Just look at Deion, Ty, Lawyer, and other former Pats that left for money reasons. Pretty good deal huh????

Adam was the rare exception of a ring...

 

[mcbee]

I don't understand why he's upset.

He gets 7M or 8M or whatever in cash this year. Then next year he gets a big payday.

Sure there's a CHANCE he gets injured or has an off year...but he's compensated for that in the huge cash payment he gets. He's set for life.
It's a gamble...one big payday now and another HUGE one next year or if he has an off year then a lesser (but still probably big) payday next year.

Screw him for being a baby about it and causing a distraction. Sayonara.

Ross or Revis would probably replace him pretty easily.

 

[SWelker]

Re: Assante's asking to be traded?

You guys gotta calm down, completely overreacting to a couple lines. Waiving fairwell at this point is just stupid.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Re: Assante's asking to be traded?

he does make a different. We've made it far without Thomas-Stall-Washington-Welker-Morris. Samuel had a better season than all of them besides maybe Thomas.

Your just pissed because he is on your avatar...

 

[TatupusTutu]

1. Samuel was a 4th rounder in 03 (120 overall), has started 39 of 59 career games, and has been paid ~$3M for four seasons. Turning that into a 2007 2nd rounder and a couple future 3's or 4's would keep the dynasty rolling. Samuel is an undersized, ball-hawking CB who can be easily replaced. He's not even close to as good as the mythical "shutdown corners".

2. Trading for 2's and 3's is less glamorous than getting a "3rd First Round Pick!!1!" but it's also far less expensive.

 

[Kdo5]

Re: Assante's asking to be traded?

Your just pissed because he is on your avatar...

Hehe.

 

[mgcolby]

Picture this:

This holdout follows the Deion Branch model. He holds out until a week before season start and also because the Pat's have not received an offer worth his compensation. Finally you get you're 1st round pick for him in 08'.

Meanwhile, during the summer, their are no adequate Reche Caldwell versions of a cornerback that will adequately replace Samuels absence.

You get a rookie CB that best case scenario takes a while to acclimate to the league and the system.

Then let's throw a realistic scenario into the picture. You lose a Vrabel, Colvin or dare I say AD to injury for the year. This is football...it can happen.

Your chances of post season success are miniscule. You're planning for 08' at this point.

With Asante' at corner, defensively you are no worse last year. He may not be Champ Bailey, but IMHO he makes that much of a difference.

Why stop there lets toss Brady, Wilkfork, Stallworth and any other player that you deem fit to suit your argument.

There are upsides to keeping Asante such as knowing the D inside and out, he is a good starter who has potential and by all accounts is a good person etc. But not having Samuels at CB doesn't kill our chances for the SB when paired with one other key injury. Did you think we had any shot of winning the SB when we lost Law for the season in 2004?

And as far as "their are no adequate Reche Caldwell versions of a cornerback that will adequately replace Samuels absence." We don't need that FA because we have that guy coming off the IR - Randell Gay. I would also toss this out there - if any team is adapt at picking up servicable DB's off the street its the Pats.

 

[upstater1]

All I know is that if we ended up with Poszlusny and Leon Hall in the first round this year, I'd be jumping for joy.