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Are we going to lose Wilfork in his prime?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JSn, Feb 11, 2009.

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  1. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I didn't see this being discussed, but I see the rumblings of tourble in Vince-town. He's a stand-up guy, and other than battering the odd QB (;)) I don't think he'll cause a stink, but I think he may price himself outta here if we don't get him extended asap.

    As much as we talk about upgrading this and that on D, I think it starts with the line and while I can go either way on a guy like Seymour (yeah-yeah, call me names), I think VW is a guy who needs to stay here for at least another set of four.

    This reads too much like the Asante thing, though I think Vince might be in a different character class.

    Vince Wilfork in focus - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

    What are you guys thinking about this one? Is he the most important contract extension in view?
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It may cost more, you may lose a guy, but players also tend to play better as the contracts come closer to ending. If he plays it out this year and we Franchise him next year that's two more years of him playing in contract years. There's plenty of time.

    Regarding his comment about the cost, the Patriots have extended guys like Warren and Koppen so while he's right that it costs more later, he's clearly not willing to take a discount or he would be extended now. It takes two to tango and from appearances he wants to be extended without taking a discount; there's a risk for the Patriots extending him if he suffers a major injury.
     
  3. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    who knows.......but he belongs here, and with more and more teams taking up the 3-4, signing him sooner rather than later would seem to be to the benefit of the pats.......although the pats could simply tag him for a couple of years before he gets too expensive
     
  4. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    His agent is telling him to say this. Knows its more effective coming from Vince.

    they will pull out all the stops to sign him. He likes us, we like him, it will get done.
     
  5. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wilfork's not going anywhere, barring a change in the CBA. The Patriots will franchise him if necessary.
     
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    God I hope note. I would hate to lose Vince, and I think he would like to stay a Patriot.

    I'm a little unsure if this is just posturing. Wilfork says that the Pats haven't contacted him and that "the longer it takes the more it will cost", but from what I can see he's waiting to see what it takes to sign Haynesworth before making a move. I don't think the Pats undervalue Wilfork, and I'm sure they will tag him if it comes to that next year, but I doubt they could make much progress on a long term deal right now even if they had the room.
     
  7. Jimke

    Jimke In the Starting Line-Up

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    There is no point now in contacting Wilfork until the Cassel

    situation is resolved. If Cassel is traded, there will be sufficient

    cap space available to deal with Wilfork.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  8. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This sounds to me like the agent speaking, in my opinion.
    Just a couple months ago Wilfork said he wanted to retire as a Patriot.
    (I linked the ProJo story because I know how most everyone here hates links to the Herald.)

    "I want to end my career here. I want to end my football career to end in New England. If they don't know, I'm pretty sure you guys will let them know how much I love it here. i don't want to go anywhere else. When I signed here, the first thing I said in my press conference, 'I want to start a Patriot, and I want to end a Patriot.' "
     
  9. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    i would think there is a much greater chance of losing Seymour than Wilfork
     
  10. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are we going to lose Wilfork in his prime?

    I don't think so, but of the three big 2010 free agents (Mankins, Seymour and Wilfork) I can't see any scenario where all three stay. It looks like one will get extended, on will get franchised and one will leave.

    Of course the CBA is a disaster so who knows.
     
  11. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Wilfork isn't stupid - he knows what the situation is with Cassel right now and knows that with $15 million currently tied up, it would be stupid of the team to spend limited cap space on a guy who IS ALREADY UNDER CONTRACT FOR ALL OF 2009 instead of using the remaining current cap space to improve the team in free agency.

    Assuming Cassel doesn't decide to block a trade, once he's off the books the team will be able to move forward with Wilfork - but for now, it would make no sense for the team to limit themselves in free agency when there's absolutely no need to do so.

    Maybe he'd like to be personally appraised of the situation and be reassured that he's in the teams extension plans once they've cleared more space - but chances are he was just asked a simple question and gave a simple answer.
     
  12. j00fek

    j00fek Banned

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    if they keep cassel, yes he is gone

    they already tried to re up him and he said no, so he wants to get paid, i dont fault him for this.

    i hope they can keep him
     
  13. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    under the current system, the pats are 67M under the cap for 2010, so there is no reason they can't keep all 3
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  14. j00fek

    j00fek Banned

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    67mill under?

    link?

    Patriots: $119 millon/used. cap is 123$mill
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  15. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They only have 26 players signed as well, I guess anything is possible.

    As a side note I thought any opinion expressed on the board was assumed to be that, just an opinion. I will try to be more more concise.

    IMO there is not scenario that all three return for 2010 (but I hope they do).

    Another random item, my opinions are wrong a lot, but I still believe them to be true (until proved false).
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  16. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    he wasn't saying this year he was saying next year .....but that number means nothing until this offseason is over.
     
  17. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not to give you a hard time, but..............
    What do you base your ability to judge the 'character class' of Samuel, Wilfork, or any player for that matter?
    Maybe you are using the wrong terminology, but how can you possibly assess the CHARACTER of an NFL player? or anyone unless you know how they live, what they think, how they treat people, whether they are reliable, lazy, take advantage of people,etc,etc?

    It sounds like you are trying to use character as a word to describe whether they feel testing the open market is a wise move or not.
    Whatever you feel about Asante Samuel, his CHARACTER is not determined by whether he felt he was worth a larger contract than the Patriots wanted to give him, but by 1000 other factors that you know nothing about. The same with Wilfork.
    Asante Samuel does not have bad character because the Eagles wanted to ffer him a higher paying job than the Patriots did, and like 99.99999% of Americans he did not feel that he owed his employer his services even if they didn't want to reward him for what he, and others felt his true worth was.
    Perhaps Samuels CHARACTER showed up when he played at an all-pro level while on a rookie contract, giving 100% effort.
    Do we question the Patriots CHARACTER for not offering him what other teams did?

    After all if Asante was ungrateful and sold out for more $$, weren't the Patriots ungrateful and sold out for not paying him more $$? Or, maybe its a business decision, and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with character.
    I've heard character described (by Marines) as whether that person is someone I want in the foxhole with me. Anyone who defines character in those terms would be offended that you define it by saying anyone who doesnt beg for the opportunity to play for the team you like at whatever the team wants to pay lacks character.
     
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wilfork isn't going anywhere. Seymour may be entering his last year as a Patriot, but Wilfork is clear not. The Pats may not even be worried about franchising Wilfork two years in a row if neccessary. The NT in the 3-4 is the most important position of defense. When you have a dominant NT who is durable and doesn't wear down (two issues with many NTs), you do what you can to keep them.
     
  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I dont agree with your assessment of the NT's value in our system.
    The NT is responsible for 2 gaps. Thats it, and they rarely get a pass rush either.
    They are no more critical than any other DL, with one big exception:
    If the NT is AWFUL you create cutback lanes on every running play. A NT getting blown off the ball is a severe, perhaps as severe as you can have, problem. But you do not need exceptional play at that spot.

    Having a NT who can hold up at the los and make a play now and then is very important, having one that does more than that is not nearly as important as commonly believed. IMO, of course.

    If we assume Wilfork is a dominant NT (which I would agree with) then to say that NT is the most important position on the defense, would infer that our defense has been most dominant since Wilfork arrived, and has gooten more dominant as his play improved, and that is aboslutely incorrect.
     
  20. Pawn512

    Pawn512 On the Roster

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    If 2010 is uncapped we can keep Cassel (if he isnt traded), Wilfork and Mankins without any extensions:

    Mankins will be an RFA (tendered at $2.5-$3 million)
    Cassel will also be an RFA, albeit with a $16 million tender
    The franchise tag could then be applied to Wilfork (tendered at $7-8 million)

    Hobbs and Kaczur would also be RFAs in this scenario.

    Thats a lot of money for those three, but its just reduced profits for the Krafts in an uncapped year.

    We'd still lose Seymour, but thats probably acceptable at this point.
     
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