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Any thoughts on Crable?


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We won't be fielding 11 all pros on defense?

Does that really answer the question of adequately replacing Bill Parcell's linebackers?

Bill Parcells?
You will have to explain that one.
 
Bill Parcells?
You will have to explain that one.

I think is refering to the multiple LBs that were on this team when BB took over.

Ted Johnson, McGinist, Bruschi were all drafted by Parcells

we got Cox and Phifer from the Jets who were coached by Parcells

I think Vrable would be one who wasn't but a ton of LBs on this team were Parcells guys first.

One thing left out of that thought though is that Belichick was around those players alot as an assistant.
 
The key phrase is LB PLAY.
Guessing how the LBs that BB has chosen to field this year will play is different than assessing the play of our LBs.
The system can also create the opportunity to play well.

Let me give you an example:

Willie McGinest was, at the beginning of the BB era, the OLb that was given the most opportunity to rush the passer. He was considered our best pass rusher. Later this role went to R Colvin. He was considered our best pass rusher. For the last few years, it went to Mike Vrabel, who THEN became considered our best pass rusher.
Each of these players cosnsistenly brought pressure, hurries, and at varying levels of success, sacks.
Last year, our pass rush was, by most accounts the weakest of the BB era.
We trade away the player who was given the pass rush opportunity but didnt do so well with it last year.
It would seem that this torch has been passed to Adalius Thomas, who has a very good record as a pass rusher although his pass rushing numbers weren't great while he was playing here and not rushing the passer.
On the other side we have a guy who by all accounts is stout against the run, disciplined, has worked his way through the system and up the depth chart, but his pass rushing skills are still unknown.
What exactly is the problem again?

The thing is I believe few people questioned McGinest's talent, potential or demeanor to be a great LB.

If BB has one problem in my mind...he embraces the cerebral part of the game too much. I think he believes with coaching and discipline...anyone can succeed in his system. This is clear in the way he views LB's and OL's.

But true football talent is hugely important at the LB position especially instinct.
 
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The thing is I believe few people questioned McGinest's talent, potential or demeanor to be a great LB.

If BB has one problem in my mind...he embraces the cerebral part of the game too much. I think he believes with coaching and discipline...anyone can succeed in his system. This is clear in the way he views LB's and OL's.

But true football talent is hugely important at the LB position especially instinct.

That is a ridiculous statement. If BB believed anyone can succeed in his system, then he wouldnt worry about the draft or free agency.
The fact that intellect is MORE CRITICAL at LB or OL is a judgment that he has or has not made. It appears to be a correct one too.
So you are suggesting BB should find athletic morons, and plug them into his defense?
 
I think is refering to the multiple LBs that were on this team when BB took over.

Ted Johnson, McGinist, Bruschi were all drafted by Parcells

we got Cox and Phifer from the Jets who were coached by Parcells

I think Vrable would be one who wasn't but a ton of LBs on this team were Parcells guys first.

One thing left out of that thought though is that Belichick was around those players alot as an assistant.

Parcells last year here the starting LBs were Chris Slade, Todd Collins and Ted Johnson, who was then injured and a shell of his former self when BB arrived.
 
That is a ridiculous statement. If BB believed anyone can succeed in his system, then he wouldnt worry about the draft or free agency.
The fact that intellect is MORE CRITICAL at LB or OL is a judgment that he has or has not made. It appears to be a correct one too.
So you are suggesting BB should find athletic morons, and plug them into his defense?

The cerebral part I was referring to was not necessarily the smarts of the players but rather BB's own smarts.

BB will discipline you and and put you in the right places at the right time, but you still have to have the instincts and athleticism to pull it off.

Monty Beisel had the athleticism but lacked any inate instincts.
 
The cerebral part I was referring to was not necessarily the smarts of the players but rather BB's own smarts.

BB will discipline you and and put you in the right places at the right time, but you still have to have the instincts and athleticism to pull it off.

Monty Beisel had the athleticism but lacked any inate instincts.

Wait a minute.
Now you are saying BB is too smart for his own good. That he purposely puts crappy players on the field to prove you dont have to have talent if you do what he says?
And the fact that we had a bad LB play for us for half a season, because he was forced into starting when Tedy Bruschi had a stroke, is your proof?
Wow.
 
Bill Parcells?
You will have to explain that one.

How many linebackers did Belichick draft that contributed to our three Super Bowls? (0) How many did the Patriots draft (3).

How many current starters were drafted by the Patriots (2) by Belichick? (1).

Of the acquisitions to augment or replace the 3 SB era draftees, how many remain (0).

How many acquisitions (other than Lenon if he sticks) are on the team other than UDFAs, (1). (TBC is a once failed JAG)

That leaves Crable.
 
Wait a minute.
Now you are saying BB is too smart for his own good. That he purposely puts crappy players on the field to prove you dont have to have talent if you do what he says?
And the fact that we had a bad LB play for us for half a season, because he was forced into starting when Tedy Bruschi had a stroke, is your proof?
Wow.

That's too severe an interpretation.

I don't believe it's an issue of arrogance on BB's part. It's taking a gamble and at times economic necessity.

The 2002 season forced us to play a bunch of JAGS. A bunch of experiment guys. Failed miserably. The year prior to Moss and Welker. Bunch of Jags at WR. Failure. The Ellis Hobbs experiment. There was know way the guy was anything other than a nickel corner....but was pushed into a starters position. Failed.

I unfortunately think these gambles will be taken with the LB corp. Some of it due to BB trying to push the envelope with what he has....and partly due to economics.
 
(TBC is a once failed JAG)

how can you call TBC failed. 7th round draft pick paralays a pretty successful stint with us into a good contract and a chance to start with the 49ers. He doesn't fit there very well but is brought back by the man who drafted him to help secure the OLB position vacated by one of the all time great patriots.

I think there are 32+ 7th rounders that were drafted this year that would consider that kind of a career to be a huge success.
 
How many linebackers did Belichick draft that contributed to our three Super Bowls? (0) How many did the Patriots draft (3).

How many current starters were drafted by the Patriots (2) by Belichick? (1).

Of the acquisitions to augment or replace the 3 SB era draftees, how many remain (0).

How many acquisitions (other than Lenon if he sticks) are on the team other than UDFAs, (1). (TBC is a once failed JAG)

That leaves Crable.

So you are now going to argue that the fact that there was one position on the field that had players BB could use when he got here NINE years ago, is proof he sucks?

The entire LB corps, with the exception of Bruschi are players acquired to augment or replace the SB era LBs.

I do not understand what your point is. And I certainly have no clue what Bill Parcells has to do with it.
 
That's too severe an interpretation.

I don't believe it's an issue of arrogance on BB's part. It's taking a gamble and at times economic necessity.

The 2002 season forced us to play a bunch of JAGS. A bunch of experiment guys. Failed miserably. The year prior to Moss and Welker. Bunch of Jags at WR. Failure. The Ellis Hobbs experiment. There was know way the guy was anything other than a nickel corner....but was pushed into a starters position. Failed.

I unfortunately think these gambles will be taken with the LB corp. Some of it due to BB trying to push the envelope with what he has....and partly due to economics.

What exactly is your point?
That every football team in a capped league will have weaknesses? Duh.
What does that have to do with BB cerebellum?
 
how can you call TBC failed. 7th round draft pick paralays a pretty successful stint with us into a good contract and a chance to start with the 49ers. He doesn't fit there very well but is brought back by the man who drafted him to help secure the OLB position vacated by one of the all time great patriots.

I think there are 32+ 7th rounders that were drafted this year that would consider that kind of a career to be a huge success.

Shhhhhh.
He's trying to criticze BB so knocking TBC helps.
 
What exactly is your point?
That every football team in a capped league will have weaknesses? Duh.
What does that have to do with BB cerebellum?

Well...it's not a new problem. How many years have we been saying the LB Corps getting old, inconsistant, weak?

Not a new problem. Third down, red zone issues....not a new problem.

A great offense will hide alot of those problems...but not against good balanced opponents...whom you have to beat to get anywhere.
 
Well...it's not a new problem. How many years have we been saying the LB Corps getting old, inconsistant, weak?

Not a new problem. Third down, red zone issues....not a new problem.

A great offense will hide alot of those problems...but not against good balanced opponents...whom you have to beat to get anywhere.

Our LB corps has been among the best in the NFL for years.
We have been excellent on 3rd down and in the red zone a lot more often than we have been bad. Just because those were the issues LAST year does not mean they havent been addressed, are the issues this year, or were issues before that.

Your last sentence tells me you have been a Patriot fan for no more than 2 years, because it is totally inconsistent with the way this DYNASTY has been built.
 
Our LB corps has been among the best in the NFL for years.
We have been excellent on 3rd down and in the red zone a lot more often than we have been bad. Just because those were the issues LAST year does not mean they havent been addressed, are the issues this year, or were issues before that.

Your last sentence tells me you have been a Patriot fan for no more than 2 years, because it is totally inconsistent with the way this DYNASTY has been built.

Andy...you're to bright to be labeling folks like that. I'm 41 years old. Been watching the Pats for a very long time ...through good and bad.....and appreciate the recent success we've had more than anyone.

Vince Wilfork was our second leading tackler last year. Thank god for that. (Correction.....4th leading tackler.....but you get my point.)

We have not had a Belichick caliber LB Corp in the last 3 years. Our past successes do not make up for our current deficiencies.

And those deficiencies do exist.
 
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Andy...you're to bright to be labeling folks like that. I'm 41 years old. Been watching the Pats for a very long time ...through good and bad.....and appreciate the recent success we've had more than anyone.

Vince Wilfork was our second leading tackler last year. Thank god for that. (Correction.....4th leading tackler.....but you get my point.)

We have not had a Belichick caliber LB Corp in the last 3 years. Our past successes do not make up for our current deficiencies.

And those deficiencies do exist.

I'm with ya Pencils, the LB's have been a problem for quite awhile. It's laughable how people think they were among the best in the NFL. The last time the Pats LB's were considered the best was in 2004. Since then, they've been a liability. Also, people fail to realize that the Pats LB's have lots of trouble guarding the underneath routes. The Pats LB's might be smart, but they still can't cover. BB finally drafted Mayo and Crable last year and McKenzie this year. Unfortunately, McKenzie is out for year and Crable is somehow injured again. I'm pretty sure BB will see how bad his LB's are this preseason and trade for Burgess.
 
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