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A slightly different Moss question

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by workhorse, May 2, 2007.

  1. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    This is a serious question about Moss. If the situation was different and the Colts had been the one to land Moss, how would people around here think or Moss and his value? This may have been mentioned in one of previous thread, but there are a ton of post and this is a specific question.

    I think it will be interesting to see how he does in a different environment. He has never been in the situation that he will be in with the Pats. With the Vikings, it was Randy's team. Granted Culpepper was there, but Moss was the first player that you thought of when the Vikings came up. With Oakland it was the bad attitude Randy almost right off the bat. Now he comes into a team situation with the Pats that he hasn't seen before. A proven winner, with a clear cut set of leaders. It should be interesting. Especially to see if he can just turn it back on considering that it has been several yeaars since we have seen the Randy Moss that everyone feared.

    But back to the question. If he were now a Colt, would you think he would become the old Randy or just another good receiver? What do you think the impact would be on the "team" structure with the Colts and their locker room? Once again, this is a serious question and I'm curious to see what you guys think. If you don't like the topic or that I'm a Colts fan, don't waste your time flaming me, just move on to the next thread please and thank you.
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd have the same reaction : "YOW" it would just be negative instead of positive.
  3. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I'll tell you one thing, I don't think he'd get far chewing Peyton Manning out like he did Culpepper. But the Patriots, having lots of structure and discipline, are a better fit for Moss-at-30 than the laid-back Colts.
  4. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think he COULD thrive as a Colt.

    That being said, he stated he would restructure his contract only for the New England Patriots, so obviously, he wouldn't be going to Indy with the same personal attitude that he is in now. That is the key. His attitude is the most important part. So, talent-wise, he COULD thrive as a Colt. Mentally, I'm not sure.
  5. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Two football related things that don't agree with Randy Moss are:

    1) losing
    2) being a leader

    If a winning environment, loaded with leaders can be provided for Moss, then he'll excel as few in this game ever can dream of.

    He'll get both here in NE and he'd get both in Indy.
  6. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rookie

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    He'd be great in Indy. I'd be very disappointed.

    Guarantee that if Indy had shown interest, they might have been the only other team for which Moss would have adjusted his contract. It's just that the Colts are already loaded at WR, and it's one of the reasons they're up against the cap!
  7. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    I would think that it was bait of overkill considering you already have two Pro Bowlers with Harrison and Wayne, but I would also know that Moss would put up huge numbers in that offense.
  8. Va_Pats_Fan

    Va_Pats_Fan Rookie

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    I think the huge difference would be that here, he's #1 until its taken away from him. In Indy, he would not be #1, and that may have an effect. As far as team leadership/winning/etc. I don't see a huge difference.
  9. TheSeymonsta

    TheSeymonsta Rookie

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    If the Colts gave up the same (a 4th round pick and 5 million) I would think it would be a no-brainer move.

    He would be on a winning team with a great QB.

    Difference being it would be bad for the Pats.:)


    BTW why the *** didnt the Colts address their defensive needs?????
  10. bishbash

    bishbash Rookie

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    I'd be worried and praying he'd be a locker room cancer for the Colts or as bad as he seemed in Oakland.

    Serious question for you, Workhorse. How would the media and fans of Indy react if the Colts had picked up Moss?
  11. ironwasp

    ironwasp Rookie

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    The situations are slightly different.

    Indianapolis has a passing game already suited to stretch the field threats in Wayne and Harrison and adding Moss into that mix probably would have intensified my disturbed thoughts about our secondary dealing with your passing game. But not too much, as its pretty much a problem for us (and most of the league) already. But even so, yes the addition of Moss would have given me cause for concern.

    Had it been the Chargers, though, who are not well stocked at receiver, I'd have been ver concerned.

    I suspect that any one of these three teams would be able to squeeze a good year out of Moss.
  12. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    I think had it been a real possiblity, they could have figured out a way to make it work cap wise. I think they key difference between the Colts and the Pats is the WR situation. Coming to Indy he would be option 2B, while in New England, he's the #1 WR

    I think it would be split, a bit more positive, than negative. The positive would be saying how can you stop the Colts offense with Marvin, Reggie, Moss and Addai, not to mention Dallas Clark. The negative would be talking about the bad attitude coming into the Colts locker room. Which I think would be legit with him being just another receiver with the Colts.

    I think that New England and San Diego would be much better fits for Randy's receiver ego. I'm not sure how he'd do as just one of three very talented receivers.

    How sick would that Colts offense be though? Go with that spread formation with Marvin, Reggie, Randy and Dallas with Addai in the back field. Ouch.
  13. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    They did. It's just their first couple picks happen to address the issue of keeping the offense running at a high pace. Daymeion Hughes, Pti**** and Clint Sessions are all guys that should work very well in the Colts cover two style of defense.
  14. Pat_the_Patriot

    Pat_the_Patriot Rookie

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    I'd say it was the same as here..... when I first heard about the trade, I was a bit put off.... $10 mill in cap space chewed up by a "home run or bust" WR is just too much. THEN, once I saw the "agreed to restructure his contract" line.... I was cautiously excited... THEN, once I realized just how much he "left on the table".... I was ecstatic. Saying something is one thing.... "putting you money where you mouth is... is entirely different".

    So, if the same thing had happened for the Colts... I'd be worried.... really worried, just like I hope they are now! :)
  15. ironwasp

    ironwasp Rookie

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    Indeed. Oddly enough, I think these two offences are beginning to look remarkably similar. At least on paper. Change Marvin, Reggie and Dallas with Addai in the backfield for Randy, Donte and Ben with Maroney in the backfield. This year's 38-34 might look like a defensive stalemate compared to next year's showdown!!
  16. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    And then on top of that, the Colts have Anothony Gonzalez and the Patriots have Wes Welker as their respective slot receivers.
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the Patriots, for the first time, are the more TALENTED offense. Now, they have way more downside with so many new pieces. But while the Colts' WR get a slight edge, I like Watson and Maroney more than Clark and Addai. Regardless, they're very close if, and it's a big if, the Patriots gell quickly.

    Defensively we smoke them, they won't be able to sell out against the run anymore and we'll be better than last year with Thomas . . . and WAY better than in the playoff game when half the defense wasn't on the field.
  18. SkiHound

    SkiHound Rookie

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    I think ironwasp makes a good point that at Indy, Moss would be added to an already dynamic WR core that can stretch the field. But I'd think he has the potential to make an explosive offense even more explosive. So I wouldn't be happy. That said, folks can spin this however they want but the questions won't be answered till teams get on the field. As a Pats fan, Randy Moss is not someone I've coveted. Just doesn't seem like a Pats kind of guy. But I'm excited about the potential he brings to the team. IF he comes and keeps his nose clean, accepts his role as a member of a team, and plays like he's capable of playing he'll improve the offense a whole lot. Having receivers who can stretch the field should really make the offense a 6-headed monster. It should make it much easier to run and I envision Welker and Watson having a field day underneath. IF he's the Randy Moss that's played at Oakland the last few years, it'll be a failed experiement.
  19. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Yeah. If Indy got Champ Bailey then I'd worry more.

    With Wayne adn Harrison (and now Gonzales), Moss wouldn't have the same impact.
  20. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's a REALLY interesting question, Workhorse. I can't answer it with any confidence but I can ask you some questions back as a way of getting clearer.

    It seems to me that there are three ways in which the situation for Moss at the Pats might differ from that at the Colts. I would be interested to know how you see them. (I should say that this isn't trying to contrast the Colts unfavourably with the Pats -- you were worthy Superbowl winners last season -- nor taking for granted that the trade for Moss will work out (though I AM optimistic -- see sig).)

    First, it's undoubtedly a good thing for Moss that the Patriots have such a negative attitude towards media access. Some guys attract media attention and it hurts and upsets them. It was obvious that Corey Dillon LOVED not having to talk to the media -- the way that he sat there silently and scowled! Obviously, Randy is a different kind of guy, but I hope he realizes that not being able to talk to the media is a blessing for him. Would it be the same in Indianapolis?

    Second, there are some senior guys on the Pats who have just as much "swagger" as Randy and won't hesitate to confront him if he gets out of line. OK -- I'm thinking of Rodney Harrison. Are there similar characters in Indy? My impression of Marvin Harrison is that he's more of a quiet perfectionist who leads by example.

    Finally, it may be an advantage that the Patriots offense is still very much "under construction". The Colts have a system that works for them and has been refined and refined under the same OC for a very long time. It would surely be a case of fitting Moss to the system rather than adapting the system to Moss.

    All of that said, I share the reaction of my fellow Pats fans -- if Moss had gone to Indianapolis, I'd have said that a very good team just got better.
  21. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Wow! You're right:

    Harrison - Moss
    Wayne - Stallworth
    Gonzales - Welker
    Clark - Watson
    Maroney - Addai

    Both teams might as well make the punter inactive, as they each score 7 every time they get the ball.

    Regulation ends with the score tied, 133-133.

    Whoever wins the OT coin toss scores 6 and wins the game.
  22. brady199

    brady199 Rookie

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    Why not?
    Reggie Wayne chewed out Peyton pretty good.
    And Peyton just stood their like a little school girl in the Ghetto:eek: :eek: :eek:
  23. stattry

    stattry Rookie

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    This thread lasted just about as long as one could possibly expect without a Manning cheapshot.
  24. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Excellent points Mike. To which I would add the dis-similar situation involved in defending a title rather than avenging just missing out on a title, and Belioli and Kraft vs. the laid back Dungy (who may be gone after this season), the outspoken Polian (who will publicly call a player or unit out in anger and then spend weeks backpedaling), and Irsay who is basically at Polian's mercy.

    Not to mention even at a discount they couldn't afford him from a compensation standpoint in cap or trade. They needed their 4th's which were nearly 5ths anyway to fill vacancies on defense they couldn't avoid or fill in FA because of existing cap concerns even after the obvious restructures.
  25. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One thing that is left out of that equation:

    The Pats D is head and shoulders over the Indy D.

    Indy has experience some defection this offseason on D, while the Pats have made some nice pickups in Thomas, Meriweather and James.

    While the offenses are now very comparable, I don't see the D's in the same class with each other.
  26. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Considering I am not as overjoyed of the acquisition of Moss as many other people are, I guess my reaction would be measured. I just don't know if Moss is this elite WR anymore. I think he is a good WR, but I am not convinced that the last three years was because he was upset with his situation or the talent around him.

    I personally think Moss is more suited for the Colts' offense. They run a more vertical offense than we do. Granted he would have to fight for playing time.

    I am not convinced you change your offense to accomodate Moss when it doesn't give Brady the opportunity to exploit his talents best. Brady is "The Franchise" and Moss is as of right now is an one year player who may or may not be here in 2008. I think they will find a role for Moss, but there will be no Randy Ratio in New England.

    So I could actually see Moss being more impactful with the Colts although most likely not.
  27. TheSeymonsta

    TheSeymonsta Rookie

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    You know all those long passes Brady has sent downfield over the past 3 years only to be dropped by one ***** head receiver or another????

    Moss catches those. They wont change their offense but it will allow them to complete those deep passes.
  28. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Moss works better in a vertical offense with a lot of fades and go routes. In all the highlights that they have shown on Moss since Sunday has anyone seen him run a route that didn't have him basically running in a straight line down the field?

    I do think Moss can be a deep threat for the Pats, but I am not convinced that he will be much more than a deep pass specialist. Granted, even if he is, we got our money's worth.
  29. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I rather prefer to think of Moss as a TD maker more than anything. I see those 101 career TD's of his and figure he's easily good for 15 TD's with Brady tossing him the rock. I would think that most would be scored via the deep pass and when in the red zone but how those TD's are attained doesn't really matter so long as they are made.
  30. TheSeymonsta

    TheSeymonsta Rookie

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    On top of that he will require a double team every time he runs a route....

    Who is better than Tom Brady at going through his reads???:D

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