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A Depressing Situation At WR and OLB

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We will draft an OG and a DE early. Belichick seems to believe that the early part of the draft is the place to fill these positions. So, for me, I will just BELEIVE that these two needs will be met in the first or second round. I also think that Belichick is comfortable that he can fine veteran corners if he can't re-sign Bodden. He might bring in 2-3 to compete for Wheatley's spot and the open spot if Bodden isn't re-sign. Again, this is something that Belichick does almost every year.
    =====================================================
    We may have wishes for upgrades at lots of positions (RB and ILB come to mind), but WR and OLB are both a mess. We also need a TE.
    =====================================================

    The wide receiver position is a disaster. We have Moss (who is not allowed to be injured) and Edelman, a backup slot back who has had a couple fo injuries in the past year. We may have 8 WR's on the roster, but only Moss and Edelman should be counted on to contribute greatly in 2010 as receivers.

    At OLB we have Ninkovich, Crable and Woods (presuming that we keep him), unless you think Thomas is playing for us again. Banta-Cain and Burgess are UFA's.
     
  2. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'd like to load up OLB through the draft b/c I don't really see us making a play for a Peppers, Merriman, Dumervil. Maybe we kick the tires on Peppers b/c he is an UFA, but I doubt we are willing to give him the type of money he's going to want.

    As for WR, we have Moss on one side, Edelman sliding into the slot role of Welker. I see the need for a guy who can split out wide opposite of Moss.

    I'd like to see us acquire proven pro talent via free agency or a trade. I don't think we need another deep threat after the Galloway fiasco. I think we need a physical presence in the intermediate passing game who will work the middle of the field and sacrifice his body to make the catch. Someone like an Anquan Boldin who is physical, tough, fights through coverage, and will do whatever it takes to make the catch.

    It was evident in the Ravens game that Aiken is not capable of this, and Moss isn't a guy that loves going over the middle.
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OLB is depressing.

    WR ? It's not what it was but, good god, we have one of the best WR in the game. He had better numbers than Reggie Wayne who doesn't suck. We need to speed up the process of adding another now that Welker is out but some of us wanted to do that anyway to prepare for Moss being gone in 2011. Moss, Edelman and a new guy, either a FA or draftee, will be a pefectly fine, non depressing group. Great ? No. 2007 ? No. Depressing ? Absolutely not.

    Now . . . if Moss retires, different story.
     
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Moss is injured, we can depend on Edelman, Stanback, Aiken.

    Obviously, I will be fine when we find three midlevel free agent wide receivers. But for now, we have a severe need at this position.

    We cannot have Moss be the only wide receiver threat. It just doesn't work.

     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Merriman has seemed to turn it on again, and I'm feeling sorry for saying that the Pats shouldn't make a play for him the middle of the year. He'll need a new contract, but I don't see a problem with bringing him in to play OLB. The guy is a pass rushing threat and can also set the edge.
     
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the season started tomorrow it would be depressing. I guarantee you we will sign or draft 1-2 guys that have a good shot to really help. Edelman will take a big step up heading into his second year and I expect Welker back at midseason. But even without Welker something like Moss, Golden Tate, mid level FA, Edelman is a solid group. And Brandon Tate isn't known to be gone either.
     
  7. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I feel the same way about Merriman coming in. I wanted him at the trade deadline when the Chargers were reportedly shopping him around because I thought it was a classic buy low scenario. He just needed some time to get back to full health. And I don;t even think he's fully there yet.

    But now that he will be a RFA it's hard to see the Pats signing him. If we could've had him at the deadline for a 2nd round pick, I would've done it. Then again that was just speculation by Schefter.
     
  8. Reckedtrek

    Reckedtrek 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    One thing about BB is just when you think you know how he's going to draft or not draft, he does something unexpected. So the OG/DE is not a certainty. Maybe he'll draft a punter with #22 overall- who knows? We have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds- so even if he does get an OG and DE, he still has 2 more picks to go after 2 other areas of need. If we end up with a DE, an OG, an OLB and say a RB with our first 4 and they actually turn out as good overall as our picks this past year? I don't see where the gloom is coming from. Granted that's alot of if's- I'll give you that.

    At WR, we have Edelman to cover Welker's role until the PUP players can come back- I think Welker will be on PUP to start the season. But your guess and mine are just that, guesses- unless you have some inside info to the contrary? So Edelman covers for Welker for weeks 1-6, Moss I can see (as he's getting older) starting off as a #1, then maybe as the season moves along, spread it out more- but with whom? We need to pick up a guy similar to Stallworth, someone fast but rugged. Maybe we'll see something out of Tate this coming season, if not they'll have to get someone in- I'd guess a FA not through the draft, and hopefully it doesn't end up like this year.
    If we get that one other quality receiver, that leaves us with Moss, Welker, Edleman, and the fourth WR. Disaster? I don't see it that way.

    At OLB we have Ninkovich and Banta Cain. Crable would be nice if he works out, but I'm not banking on it. I don't see Thomas being here, and Burgess- probably not. I see one of our first 4 picks as an OLB. Having said that we'll probably draft none or 3. :D But even if we draft a stud, we'll need another quality OLB. In this case, a Vrable like signing would be best- a "no name" under valued on his team. In a weird way TBC was almost like that, but he's not good enough and not a leader, but he surprised alot of people this year in a good way. But we need leaders big time. We need Vrable II.

    Other needs: TE, RB, maybe ILB. Maybe because do we know what we have with McKenzie? Probably not. Hopefully BB and the staff do have a good idea. If McKenzie and Guyton are our depth , we need someone beside Mayo if we're going 3-4. If we go more 4-3 it's not as crucial.


    So I see it like this and I have no inside info, just a guess.

    Let's say you're right about DE and OG and CB in FA.

    1 - DE
    2A- OLB
    2B- OG
    2C- RB
    4- TE
    (remaiing picks and draft FA's??? who knows- maybe we get Edleman part 2 and a punter?)

    WR- FA
    CB -FA (hopefully they can keep Bodden)
    ILB- FA
     
  9. Nonentity

    Nonentity Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    We certainly need a 3rd receiver to complement the deep threat (Moss) and slot receiver (Welker/Edelman). This receiver needs to be able to run every route and achieve consistent separation from single coverage.

    Could Brandon Tate be that guy? Maybe. But we don't know what we have with him. Someone modelled on Anquan Boldin would be ideal, e.g. Aurelius Benn.
     
  10. slash83

    slash83 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think Merriman is a much better possibility of being on the Pats next season then Peppers, SD has a capable backup in Larry English and would extend Gates then Merriman. Merriman would also be much cheaper then Peppers...
     
  11. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I wholeheartedly agree with the title of your thread.

    Our WR & OLB talent levels are a disaster.

    Moss is no longer a #1-caliber WR. I would jettison him in a heartbeat, exc. that our depth behind him is so Sahara-desert barren, that we are forced to keep him.
    Edelman will be a fine slot machine. I also hope that he can become a more productive Returner. I don't think, however, that he can be as productive on the outside as we need there.
    Welker & Tate could be hors de combat for all of 2010, so there is no point in even considering them when formulating the depth chart.
    As for Aiken, Slater, Stanback & the PSers: I wouldn't give you even a 7th-rounder for the lot of them.
    We need to draft at least one first-day-caliber WR, plus another in the late rounds or as a UDFA, plus maybe another UDFA just in case. We also need to sign at least one, prob. two, vet FAs who - as opposed to this past year - can actually still play the position; the younger the better, then maybe they'll stick around for more than one year.
    Bill hasn't successfully drafted a WR since Branch & Givens in 2002. Someone needs to be hired, or fired, to correct this serious scouting flaw.

    I would trade Adalius to anybody - exc. the Jest - who is willing to give anything for him.
    I would sign Burgess only for the vet minimum - and not one penny more.
    I would not count on Crable for anything - exc. to get hurt, again.
    The Pierre (I allowed a RB to take a fumble from me in the SB) Woods experiment should be declared dead.
    Ninkovich is an OK 8th/9th LB; I wonder if he could successfully transition to SILB?
    I thought that another year was added when TBC's contract was restructured during the season, but I guess not. He would be an exc. 3rd OLB, but he's not starting-caliber for a legit SB contender.
    Similar to WR, we need to draft at least one first-day-caliber OLB, plus another in the late rounds or as a UDFA, plus maybe another UDFA just in case. We also need to sign at least one, maybe two, vet FAs instead of over-paying for an over-paid, over-the-hill rental; again, the younger the better.
    Bill hasn't successfully drafted an OLB since TBC in 2003. Once again, someone needs to be hired, or fired, to correct yet another serious scouting flaw.
     
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Merriman has several advantages over Peppers:

    1. Much younger
    2. Much better motor - he would bring some intensity to the defense. Even when he was recovering from injury and physically wasn't there, he never stopped going 100%.
    3. Much cheaper.
    4. Experience at 3-4 OLB
    5. Take him away from SD
     
  13. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I think that you build from the lines out, so adding a guard and DE in this draft seems like a natural fit from the talent available.

    Then, no position screams for talent influx like OLB and WR. I also think the first two rounds of the draft are fairly deep in this position for us. So it seems to obvious to me that we'd draft a DE, OG, WR, OLB in the first two rounds.

    There are other needs/factors that could disrupt this. What if we don't sign Bodden - will we look for a future #1 in the draft? What if we don't resign Wilfork - will we look for Williams or Cody in the draft? What do we do at TE? Do we trade a safety for a pick?

    As for running back, I'm not enamoured with the position right now, but for me it's more of a system thing than a talent. We have three players signed relatively cheaply that provided excellent production out of a pass-first offense this year. I'd like to replace them with an all purpose back, but to me it's a want, not a need. I don't think it will improve our team that much in 2010.

    I'm also thinking Moss's days are numbered. I'd like a new #1 brought in to line up opposite Moss. Then, I'd decide on whether to keep Moss and his $6.4m salary around after evaluating our picks.
     
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with all your analysis, except the expectation that we will draft an OLB and WR in the first two rounds. I have no such expectations. I would be shocked if we do not drafted two linemen, one on either side of the ball. I wopuld not be shocked by a DT instead of a DE.

     
  15. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Agreed. These are the exact reasons why I prefer Merriman to Peppers. Don't get me wrong, I'd take Peppers, but I think Merriman is more realistic.
     
  16. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Oh yeah I totally agree. I should have specified that while it seems obvious to me that we'd draft a WR and OLB, I have zero faith in a prediction that BB would do this.

    BB may be thinking that he'll draft three lineman and a TE and pick up some SFA's (street free agent or sweet **** all) for Brady to throw to.
     
  17. Box_O_Rocks

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    Peppers sucks. Merriman, meh.
     
  18. sg14

    sg14 On the Game Day Roster

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    Speaking of WR, the loss of WW changes alot, WW was THE guy that got open very very quickly, once he went out of the game you could see Brady survey the field for 5 seconds (rare occasion when that was) and you knew it was taking too much time.

    Seems like Brady is at his best when he gets rid of the ball in 2-3 seconds, the loss off WW changed all that, while #12 waited for soemone to get open.

    So that WR pick-up, either thru FA or draft better be special.
    So we need a quick guy, and another that can stretch the field, or maybe one LeSean Jackson please.

    Or maybe our whole offensive style changes thru other means,,,more roadgraders maybe.

    FWIW dept, the guy from Ourlads said this draft is very very good (don't they say every year)

    Centers are a weak class, DTs are a great class.
     
  19. Mark Morse

    Mark Morse PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Concur with the DL and OL selections in the 1st 2 rounds. Wouldn't be surprised to see WR and another DL selected. I'd also take 3 WR's in this draft, we are that thin at the position. I don't expect WW back at all nest year. Of course this will be dependent upon FA signings.
     
  20. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Nice thoughts!!

    I agree with you needs and think that we will address one or two of these needs through FA or trade.

    I too think that BB could pick three linemen in the first two rounds as their are some good ones to be found this year. Guys who could push the starters or make one expendable.

    I really think that BB knows these needs and will be looking at value when he is picking. All four positions (OG, DE, OLB and WR) are immediate needs but if he were able to do something before the draft would free up a pick or two to address other needs.

    As for Moss, well my opinion as swung a few times over the season with "why am I thinking that" and "Man he is just dogging it out their today"!!! I really think that with Welker out for I think the first six teams the Pats will look to make a huge splash and go after Brandon Marshall as he would be a great target to play with Brady.
     

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