2016 Draft Prospect Thread

[AzorianPats]

In today's NFL I think absolutely you do. I think Jack can be in a conversation for best defender behind Watt, Mack, Donald and Kuechly in a couple of years. Mack is a rare prospect as far as I'm concerned and that definitely warrants a top 10 pick in my opinion.

my other question to you would be. if you take "playmakers", who do you think is a better playmaker than Jack? Tunsil? A LT is not a playmaker. Are run-stopping DE's like Bosa and Buckner playmakers? Not getting at you, serious question.

Manx i have a question for you or anyone else reading this thread..

If your ranking the 10 best defensive players in the league, does Jamie Collins make your list?

 

[midwestpatsfan]

In today's NFL I think absolutely you do. I think Jack can be in a conversation for best defender behind Watt, Mack, Donald and Kuechly in a couple of years. Mack is a rare prospect as far as I'm concerned and that definitely warrants a top 10 pick in my opinion.

my other question to you would be. if you take "playmakers", who do you think is a better playmaker than Jack? Tunsil? A LT is not a playmaker. Are run-stopping DE's like Bosa and Buckner playmakers? Not getting at you, serious question.

I guess I was thinking more defensive playmakers, but a Left Tackle can help create playmakers. Again, if we are talking this draft specifically, I think Jack will go top 10. Bosa is more of a playmaker I think as I think he not only plays the run well, but his speed to power combination should help him get to the QB. The more I see of Buckner, the less I like and I will have Jack ranked higher than him, so you won't get an argument from me on that one.
Again, I do think Jack is awesome at what he does. I wonder how many times a game a DC will want to put Jack in coverage and when he is not, can he make plays doing other things.

Like you, as I watch what is considered the top end talent in this draft, I struggle finding players I want to give a first round grade to, let alone a top 10 grade, so Jack will likely end up ranked higher on my board than you might expect. The intention of my original post was to point out that I see some concerns in his game that are not being talked about.

I am loving this discussion BTW, this is what I hope for when doing these reports. Not to just be contradictory, but to get a good, educated discussion going, whether people agree or not.

 

[BobDigital]

Manx i have a question for you or anyone else reading this thread..

If your ranking the 10 best defensive players in the league, does Jamie Collins make your list?

He is right on that borderline along with Hightower. Both are arguably top 10.

Here are guys I put above them

JJ Watt, Muhammad Wilkerson, Geno Atkins, Aaron Donald, Justin Houston, Luke Kuechly, Earl Thomas are above them if healthy... though not all of them are for sure slam dunks. I know Atkins has not been the force he was but i think he still has it and just needs a healthy season. This last one really put him back on track but was still only 90% I think.

Maybe Sherman, Bowman, Norman, Patrick Peterson, Suh? (overrated but still very good).

They are both arguably top 10 in my book. It be fun to make an official rank 1-10 but i would need to think about that a bit.

Here is my really quick list without thinking about it much.

#1 Watt
#2 Donald
#3 Kuechly
#4 Wilkerson
#5 Houston
#6 Atkins
#7 Norman (would love to see him do it again next year though.. don't wanna call him a 1 yr wonder but..)
#8 Thomas
#9 Hightower
#10 Collins/Bowman (tie... can't pick. Different but such good players)

 

[manxman2601]

Manx i have a question for you or anyone else reading this thread..

If your ranking the 10 best defensive players in the league, does Jamie Collins make your list?

I Concur with @BobDigital. I think he's a borderline top 10 and like Bob, I think Hightower is marginally better. I know if I had to pick one, I'd take Hightower fairly easily, just because I think Hightower is he more disciplined player and the more dominating moving forward. Can't get away from Jamie's explosion though, it really is something.

 

[AzorianPats]

He is right on that borderline along with Hightower. Both are arguably top 10.

Here are guys I put above them

JJ Watt, Muhammad Wilkerson, Geno Atkins, Aaron Donald, Justin Houston, Luke Kuechly, Earl Thomas are above them if healthy... though not all of them are for sure slam dunks. I know Atkins has not been the force he was but i think he still has it and just needs a healthy season. This last one really put him back on track but was still only 90% I think.

Maybe Sherman, Bowman, Norman, Patrick Peterson, Suh? (overrated but still very good).

They are both arguably top 10 in my book. It be fun to make an official rank 1-10 but i would need to think about that a bit.

Here is my really quick list without thinking about it much.

#1 Watt
#2 Donald
#3 Kuechly
#4 Wilkerson
#5 Houston
#6 Atkins
#7 Norman (would love to see him do it again next year though.. don't wanna call him a 1 yr wonder but..)
#8 Thomas
#9 Hightower
#10 Collins/Bowman (tie... can't pick. Different but such good players)

4 out of your first 6 are all Interior players. I found that very interesting. And it goes with my theory, interior pass rushers are like gold to teams. Everyone wants them. Its why a player like Easley, who his considered "undersized" and blew both his knees in college gets picked first round.

No Mack on your list?

I just find Collins to be a force. I heard Collinsworth say during the Colts game, that Luck said the Colts offense only schemes around 2 players.. Watt and Collins. You look at what he does, he literally lines up everywhere. He'll cover a Darren Sproles on the flat one play, the next he blitzing the A gap and sacking Luck, then hes covering Jarvis Landry on the slot 1v1 and winning that battle. Hes just amazing. Ive never seen a player so versatile. He might not be elite in one thing, but hes very good to great at everything.

 

[manxman2601]

I guess I was thinking more defensive playmakers, but a Left Tackle can help create playmakers. Again, if we are talking this draft specifically, I think Jack will go top 10. Bosa is more of a playmaker I think as I think he not only plays the run well, but his speed to power combination should help him get to the QB. The more I see of Buckner, the less I like and I will have Jack ranked higher than him, so you won't get an argument from me on that one.
Again, I do think Jack is awesome at what he does. I wonder how many times a game a DC will want to put Jack in coverage and when he is not, can he make plays doing other things.

Like you, as I watch what is considered the top end talent in this draft, I struggle finding players I want to give a first round grade to, let alone a top 10 grade, so Jack will likely end up ranked higher on my board than you might expect. The intention of my original post was to point out that I see some concerns in his game that are not being talked about.

I am loving this discussion BTW, this is what I hope for when doing these reports. Not to just be contradictory, but to get a good, educated discussion going, whether people agree or not.

No problem having slight difference's of opinion. Next question for you and anyone else, injuries aside, Jack, Jaylon smith or Reggie Ragland? For the Pats or anyone else.

 

[AzorianPats]

I Concur with @BobDigital. I think he's a borderline top 10 and like Bob, I think Hightower is marginally better. I know if I had to pick one, I'd take Hightower fairly easily, just because I think Hightower is he more disciplined player and the more dominating moving forward. Can't get away from Jamie's explosion though, it really is something.

I love Hightower too. I believe Collins to be the better player, but HT the more valuable.

Hightower is a mack truck moving forward, hes strong as an ox...

 

[AzorianPats]

No problem having slight difference's of opinion. Next question for you and anyone else, injuries aside, Jack, Jaylon smith or Reggie Ragland? For the Pats or anyone else.

1. Jack 2. Ragland 3. Smith

 

[manxman2601]

I love Hightower too. I believe Collins to be the better player, but HT the more valuable.

Hightower is a mack truck moving forward, hes strong as an ox...

That tackle in the SB was as important as Butler's interception. Shame he doesn't really get the credit he deserves.

 

[manxman2601]

1. Jack 2. Ragland 3. Smith

I agree. Might think differently if it was a team like the Seahawks or Panthers though. Smith might get bumped up to #2. Might even be #1 for a Tampa-2 team (although I'd still take Jack in that instance).

 

[AzorianPats]

I agree. Might think differently if it was a team like the Seahawks or Panthers though. Smith might get bumped up to #2. Might even be #1 for a Tampa-2 team (although I'd still take Jack in that instance).

In fairness i havent watched much od Smith though. Im with you on Jack, i like him alot.

 

[meatface]

I'm thinking about Cyrus Jones out of bama as a late pick who can contribute on special teams right away and maybe with some more development time be a contributor on defense.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[midwestpatsfan]

No problem having slight difference's of opinion. Next question for you and anyone else, injuries aside, Jack, Jaylon smith or Reggie Ragland? For the Pats or anyone else.

For the Patriots, I would go Jack with Ragland a close 2nd and Smith 3rd. I think Jack paired up with Hightower and Collins would be crazy. Hightower the run stopper, Collins the do it all guy and Jack as a coverage guy would be tough for teams to handle.
Ragland would be a Hightower/Mayo type that would give the team a more powerful look.
I think Smith is really good pre injury but he is not as good in coverage as jack and not as good at getting off blocks as Ragland, so that is why he would come in 3rd. The injury sucks for him. When do you all think he will get drafted now?

 

[Gabriel_p94]

Is anybody else on the Oj Howard bandwagon now? The guy has some serious wheels.

 

[manxman2601]

For the Patriots, I would go Jack with Ragland a close 2nd and Smith 3rd. I think Jack paired up with Hightower and Collins would be crazy. Hightower the run stopper, Collins the do it all guy and Jack as a coverage guy would be tough for teams to handle.
Ragland would be a Hightower/Mayo type that would give the team a more powerful look.
I think Smith is really good pre injury but he is not as good in coverage as jack and not as good at getting off blocks as Ragland, so that is why he would come in 3rd. The injury sucks for him. When do you all think he will get drafted now?

Could see the Seahawks taking him late first. His speed is perfect for them and they've shown in the last couple of years that they're prepared to sacrifice a first round pick (Harvin, Jimmy Graham).

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Could see the Seahawks taking him late first. His speed is perfect for them and they've shown in the last couple of years that they're prepared to sacrifice a first round pick (Harvin, Jimmy Graham).

Medical will be huge for him. If he has nerve damage like some reports have said, that could be a game changer. It really is too bad. The injury looked pretty gruesome.

 

[manxman2601]

 

[manxman2601]

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Is anybody else on the Oj Howard bandwagon now? The guy has some serious wheels.

I said about a week before then bowl game that Howard could bump himself up a full round with a big game.

Physic tools have never been a question with hkm. It's always been about becoming a football player and creating some positive tape as an offensive player.

He definitely took care of that last part.

 

[manxman2601]

I said about a week before then bowl game that Howard could bump himself up a full round with a big game.

Physic tools have never been a question with hkm. It's always been about becoming a football player and creating some positive tape as an offensive player.

He definitely took care of that last part.

Saw a report on Twitter that a) he comes with a second grade but that B) he's thinking of returning although that's not certain. From what little I've seen, he looks like a first rounder to me - at least he will be if he runs well.