2008 defensive statistics

[redsox33]

The Patriots Defense to listen to you Cassandras, was just TERRIBLE.

Sorry you are wrong. It finished as the Top Ten rated Defense, and 8th in points allowed. No matter how you search for the damning statistics, those are the ones that count. We don't need or want a Blitzing Defense. Belichick has proven over a decade, and four SB appearances, that sound fundamental, Defense strangles opponents,crushing the life out of them like a Boa Constrictor.

"Bend don't Break" is the anti-thesis of wild blitzing. And it works. The Pats only allowed a near league low 40 penetrations into their Red Zone. True they then surrendered a large percentage, (of a low number) of TDs when opponents finally managed to get there, but that will improve with experience.

Pass Rush and coverage count for little in Red Zone Defense. Correct execution, and no mistakes, count for a lot more. Rookie and newcomers made mistakes. The experience the newcomers got, will automatically improve the RZ Defense.

Why? In the RZ, DBs can't be out-run; there is no room. Short passes, (that's all that there are!), negate any Pass Rush. There is no time to get to the QB. This Defense is now big, young and fast; not just big.

In addition, the Defense played 9 new comers to the Defense, and still finished in the Top Ten in the League. And did this despite season ending injuries to 5 starters.

This Defense, when it matures next season, will join the Offense as a Top Five squad. Even the mighty 2007 Patriots edition, didn't have that kind of balance on both sides of the Ball. It is now also very young and fast. There are only four players over thirty, and one of them the oldest, is already a reserve. The others are still in their early thirties, and still in their Prime. Adequate replacements for all, are on the roster and even better newcomers are in prospect from the upcoming draft.

It will be augmented by a double draft. The Offense, so powerful and record setting in 2007, actually got stronger in 2008. The Patriots developed an awesome rushing game. There is more good proven depth at QB, RB, WR and in the Offensive Line than in 2007. The Offense actually needs little to no attention; so all efforts can be focused on further improving that already Top Ten Defense.

The Juggernaut is building, and you can't talk it down, no matter how hard you try.

You know what, you bring up a lot of true and good points. Can you imagine what next year might be like if all of our main players stay healthy enough to perform, and perform up to expectations.

 

[gomezcat]

Please show me which NFL team in the last decade has won a SB without a pass rush.

...or in any decade for that matter. Arguably the best D of all time, the 85 Bears (I hate to say it), had an OK secondary at best. Their pass rush, on the other hand...

 

[redsox33]

...or in any decade for that matter. Arguably the best D of all time, the 85 Bears (I hate to say it), had an OK secondary at best. Their pass rush, on the other hand...

There is still that argument though that your secondary can help the pass rush by making sure that there are no open recievers giving the rush time to get to the QB.

Its one of those two way streets- both need each other to work well to succeed.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Someone already did.

The Clots. They had a 24.0 % worse Pass Rush that the 2008 edition of the Patriots, just 25 sacks in total versus the 2008 Pats 31 sacks. Yet won their only Manning Superbowl.

Meanwhile the Pats allowed the 8th lowest point total in the League in 2008; better than they did in the 2001 Superbowl Year, by it's Defense oriented Team.

 

[gomezcat]

There is still that argument though that your secondary can help the pass rush by making sure that there are no open recievers giving the rush time to get to the QB.

Its one of those two way streets- both need each other to work well to succeed.

True enough. I just think that a good pass rush is the most important thing. If I remember, I'll try to find out something that proves/disproves my theory. Of course, if it's the latter, I won't post it on here.

 

[redsox33]

True enough. I just think that a good pass rush is the most important thing. If I remember, I'll try to find out something that proves/disproves my theory. Of course, if it's the latter, I won't post it on here.

Pass rush is where it starts I think especially with this team which is very linebacker orientated. We usually use smart linebackers to pick and choose a good time to go after the rush. I'd say we can wait a bit and draft for that position and groom it for a year or two. But I think the free agency need is some secondary help to actually contribute in 2009. I also think we need new faces on the tight end side. Teams kill us with their tight ends and we can't get that to work for us- we use our short passes to Wes Welker and he is going to get killed one of these days by a linebacker covering the middle because we don't have tight ends to do that job.

 

[jmt57]

This may be slightly off the topic of pass rush vs secondary, but this article goes quotes the guy BB credits with first showing him the 3-4 defense and the roles of some of those players. Though it doesn't come right out and say it, I get the impression that pressure from the pass rush is more important than coverage by the secondary.

Collier explains art of 3-4 defense

 

[AzPatsFan]

Interesting, and it just confirms what I have always d felt. Defense starts and ends up the middle. No mater the Sport. The Pats have three of the six, ( 1 NT, 2 ILBs,and 3 S) players there who are way above average to very good players. Wilfork at NT, Mayo at one ILB, Meriwether at one Safety, and currently backups Tedy and Rodney at another two spots. Perhaps Guyton will turn into another, but he was an UDFA, and might top out as merely good. I think we have seen enough of James Sanders to place him in the merely good category.

But Collier say the Big Three are really the NT and the Two ILBs. Its time to get that other ILB, IMHO. Think Lauranitis.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

The Patriots Defense to listen to you Cassandras, was just TERRIBLE.

Sorry you are wrong. It finished as the Top Ten rated Defense, and 8th in points allowed. No matter how you search for the damning statistics, those are the ones that count. We don't need or want a Blitzing Defense. Belichick has proven over a decade, and four SB appearances, that sound fundamental, Defense strangles opponents,crushing the life out of them like a Boa Constrictor.

This line of thought reminds me of the idiom that there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Yes the Pats finished in the upper third in the league in total defense, but where it matters they finished #25. I think we can all agree that Ellis, while a decent player, could be improved upon. My contention is that he could easily be improved upon, many others believe that he is the real deal. Regardless, the facts are right in front of you. Our secondary finished #25, that will not win championships. Our team gave up too many critical third downs, allowed too many red zone scores and gave up too many 20+ yard passes. The focus of the upcoming draft should be shoring up the pass defense. If that means getting a stud OLB, then we should get him. If it means getting new corners, then we should get them.

In the end, it was our D that let us down this year. I don't know if we would still be playing, but I am sure we would have made the playoffs. This team was too good to have been victimized by a dropped pass, or an iffy penalty. Offensively, we were more than good enough, defensively we were just OK, and on occasions, we were horrible; sometimes in the same series.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, the front seven is more important than the secondary.

HOWEVER, that fact doesn't mean that we can expect to win with Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Richardson, Meriweather, Spann, Ventrone and Slater as our secondary. There are two definite contributers in this group and one of those is in his contract year.

Look again at the list above. This is a very weak secondary. We might shore up the safety situation by re-signing Harrison, James Sanders and/or Tank Williams. And we could re-sign Lew Sanders.

Even with all all four re-signed, we would need to draft a corner, expected to be a contributer this year or next.

This may be slightly off the topic of pass rush vs secondary, but this article goes quotes the guy BB credits with first showing him the 3-4 defense and the roles of some of those players. Though it doesn't come right out and say it, I get the impression that pressure from the pass rush is more important than coverage by the secondary.

Collier explains art of 3-4 defense

 

[redsox33]

Yes, the front seven is more important than the secondary.

HOWEVER, that fact doesn't mean that we can expect to win with Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Richardson, Meriweather, Spann, Ventrone and Slater as our secondary. There are two definite contributers in this group and one of those is in his contract year.

Look again at the list above. This is a very weak secondary. We might shore up the safety situation by re-signing Harrison, James Sanders and/or Tank Williams. And we could re-sign Lew Sanders.

Even with all all four re-signed, we would need to draft a corner, expected to be a contributer this year or next.

I would think signing a corner would also be a good idea incase our draftee turns out to be more of a project than a contributor (I know free agents don't always turn out either).

Not only is it a weak secondary talent wise but its a smallish secondary. If I were a Moss, Fitzgerald or Owens type of wide reciever (a big tall reciever) I wouldn't fear being hit by any of our guys. We need a Law type of corner who can actually hit and tackle. Too many tiimes we see our secondary guys missing completely on tackles or getting ran over.

 

[DaBruinz]

Someone already did.

The Clots. They had a 24.0 % worse Pass Rush that the 2008 edition of the Patriots, just 25 sacks in total versus the 2008 Pats 31 sacks. Yet won their only Manning Superbowl.

Meanwhile the Pats allowed the 8th lowest point total in the League in 2008; better than they did in the 2001 Superbowl Year, by it's Defense oriented Team.

Wrong. All that was proven was that the Colts of 2006 didn't have a lot of sacks during the regular season. There was no mention of the QB hurries that was accounted to them. Also, as was pointed out, the Colts defense was better at the end of the year than at the beginning. The Colts defense put up 8 sacks in 4 play-off games. They also limited opposing teams to just 238.5 yards per game, made 7 interceptions, and forced 9 fumbles, recovering 6 of them during those 4 play-offs games.