1st Round DL - Need or Want ?

[cstjohn17]

Like any position, impossible to tell. The Patriots could sign a FA like Marcus Spears, combine Spears, Wilfork, Ty Warren, Deadrick, Brace and the units looks pretty good.

or

Warren could get cut, no FAs are brought in the DE becomes a big need.

Personally, I say it is always a need. You can never be too good along the offensive and defensive lines. The Patriots are fortunate to have Dante University to coach up players along the O Line but on the defensive side it pays to draft these players high.

With what looks to be a bumber crop of 3-4 DEs I will be surprised if they don't draft one in rounds 1 or 2.

 

[Marqui]

You can never have too much depth on the defensive line. That being said, I think OLB is the bigger need. Either way, Pats will be in good shape if they come away with an elite 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Like any position, impossible to tell. The Patriots could sign a FA like Marcus Spears, combine Spears, Wilfork, Ty Warren, Deadrick, Brace and the units looks pretty good.

or

Warren could get cut, no FAs are brought in the DE becomes a big need.

Personally, I say it is always a need. You can never be too good along the offensive and defensive lines. The Patriots are fortunate to have Dante University to coach up players along the O Line but on the defensive side it pays to draft these players high.

With what looks to be a bumber crop of 3-4 DEs I will be surprised if they don't draft one in rounds 1 or 2.

I think a stud DE is the number 1 need on our defense. And while this year's draft has a ton of stud DE's that project as OLB's in our defense, there is little blue or red chip talent at the 3-4 DE position in this draft.

I would hope that BB takes a DE with one of his 4 first or second round choices.

The best 3-4 DE in this draft is Dareus of Alabama hands down. But I doubt he falls out of the top 10.

The guy I like best is Bailey of Miami,but he may be a tad too small to play DE in our defense.

The best fit might be Crick of Nebraska because he has the size and strength to play the position. Nebraska currently plays a two gap defense All reports are that he has the correct intangibles that BB looks for. And most importantly he can be had with a second round pick.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

You can never have too much depth on the defensive line. That being said, I think OLB is the bigger need. Either way, Pats will be in good shape if they come away with an elite 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB.

No way is OLB a bigger need. A dominant DLine will make a couple JAG OLB look pretty good. Even two dominant OLB cannot succeed in a 2-gap 34 if the Dline is not good enough.
Right now they have a Pro-bowler, a JAG and a late-round surprise starting at DL. They haven't spent a decent pick on a DE since Kareem Brown. Since then they have drafted a NT, an OLB, 3 ILBs, 2 Ss, and 4CBs. I think it's about time for a DE to be drafted early.
Cunningham is getting better every game, and Ninkovitch is better than most realize.

Could they bring in another OLB? Absolutely.
How about we just agree to get one of each.

 

[Marqui]

A dominant DLine will make a couple JAG OLB look pretty good.

Is that really true? Can you give an example of that from a specific team/players?

 

[cstjohn17]

I think a stud DE is the number 1 need on our defense. And while this year's draft has a ton of stud DE's that project as OLB's in our defense, there is little blue or red chip talent at the 3-4 DE position in this draft.

I would hope that BB takes a DE with one of his 4 first or second round choices.

The best 3-4 DE in this draft is Dareus of Alabama hands down. But I doubt he falls out of the top 10.

The guy I like best is Bailey of Miami,but he may be a tad too small to play DE in our defense.

The best fit might be Crick of Nebraska because he has the size and strength to play the position. Nebraska currently plays a two gap defense All reports are that he has the correct intangibles that BB looks for. And most importantly he can be had with a second round pick.

I don't know if it is the number one need, but it shouldn't be ignored. I agree with using one of the top 4 picks on a DE. Some other names to consider.

3-4 DE candidates
Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State, 6-5 285
Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa, 6-3 286 <-- a little smallish (funny 286 pounds is small)
Allen Bailey, DE, Miami (Fla.) 6-4 288
Cameron Jordan, DE , California 6-4 285
Christian Ballard, DE, Iowa 6-4 298

Juniors
J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin, 6-6 290
Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama, 6-3 309
Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn, 6-4 298
Jared Crick, DT, Nebraska , 6-6 285

 

[patsfaninpa]

I think a stud DE is the number 1 need on our defense. And while this year's draft has a ton of stud DE's that project as OLB's in our defense, there is little blue or red chip talent at the 3-4 DE position in this draft.

I would hope that BB takes a DE with one of his 4 first or second round choices.

The best 3-4 DE in this draft is Dareus of Alabama hands down. But I doubt he falls out of the top 10.

The guy I like best is Bailey of Miami,but he may be a tad too small to play DE in our defense.

The best fit might be Crick of Nebraska because he has the size and strength to play the position. Nebraska currently plays a two gap defense All reports are that he has the correct intangibles that BB looks for. And most importantly he can be had with a second round pick.

Caught the last 3 nebraska games. They were using a 4-3 or 4-2-5 depending on down/distance in the first two. Crick played DT and had trouble getting off of his blocks against Texas and Ok. St. In the Mizzou game, they played a 3-4. Usually 3-3-5 because Mizzou spread offense. He looked much better as a de in a 3-4, than a DT in a 4-3. I hope they play OU in Big 12 title game. That would be a good matchup for him to see what he can do. I like Ballard at 1b if we go olb 1a. He moved to dt from te and is very athletic. He has played some end in their 4-3. I can see him playing end in a 3-4.

 

[rookBoston]

I don't know if it is the number one need, but it shouldn't be ignored. I agree with using one of the top 4 picks on a DE. Some other names to consider.

3-4 DE candidates
Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State, 6-5 285
Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa, 6-3 286 <-- a little smallish (funny 286 pounds is small)
Allen Bailey, DE, Miami (Fla.) 6-4 288
Cameron Jordan, DE , California 6-4 285
Christian Ballard, DE, Iowa 6-4 298

Juniors
J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin, 6-6 290
Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama, 6-3 309
Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn, 6-4 298
Jared Crick, DT, Nebraska , 6-6 285

Of all these, Dareus is closest to the DE prototype BB has drafted: 310#... big. Dareus is the only guy that I'm 100% sold on. Fariley, maybe. Crick, no.

I think that players like Heyward and Clayborn would be more like McGinest in our scheme, playing as an outside pass rusher, an elephant, sometimes playing with a hand down.

I did some scouting of Allen Bailey, and the guy is about as articulate as a lump of dirt. BB tends to draft more cerebral players than the vibe I was getting from Bailey.

Not listed here is NT Jarell Powe, Ole Miss, who is probably more in the 330# range, but explosive. I've posted before, and believe it is true, that if BB could field three NTs across his front, he would do it. But there aren't that many athletes of that size who have strength and agility to go with it. Powe does. You cant teach size. He has struggled with academics, and was diagnosed with dyslexia. But that doesn't mean he's dumb, just that he struggles to read. In his interviews, he's articulate and mature. He is the clear leader of the Ole Miss team. Given his personality and work ethic, I think BB might consider him on the DL in a DT/DE kind of a way, in the same way Wilfork can play nose or end.

 

[SteveBelichick]

Of all these, Dareus is closest to the DE prototype BB has drafted: 310#... big. Dareus is the only guy that I'm 100% sold on. Fariley, maybe. Crick, no.

I think that players like Heyward and Clayborn would be more like McGinest in our scheme, playing as an outside pass rusher, an elephant, sometimes playing with a hand down.

I did some scouting of Allen Bailey, and the guy is about as articulate as a lump of dirt. BB tends to draft more cerebral players than the vibe I was getting from Bailey.

Not listed here is NT Jarell Powe, Ole Miss, who is probably more in the 330# range, but explosive. I've posted before, and believe it is true, that if BB could field three NTs across his front, he would do it. But there aren't that many athletes of that size who have strength and agility to go with it. Powe does. You cant teach size. He has struggled with academics, and was diagnosed with dyslexia. But that doesn't mean he's dumb, just that he struggles to read. In his interviews, he's articulate and mature. He is the clear leader of the Ole Miss team. Given his personality and work ethic, I think BB might consider him on the DL in a DT/DE kind of a way, in the same way Wilfork can play nose or end.

About McGinest, I don't believe we'll see another "elephant" like him playing OLB. He was drafted by Parcells, and Belichick already said what he looks for in OLBs.
I totally agree with the "3 NTs" possibility, but I like Siona Fua from Stanford better.
Oh, and about Heyward, he sure isn't as big as Belichick's 3-4 DEs, but he sure plays bigger. The biggest knock on him is his pass rushing ability that is limited to the bull rush, but I bet the also-former-Buckeye Pepper can teach Heyward a trick or two. I'd love to see Heyward coming to Foxboro with 1B. He seems like the better fit late in round 1 because of his ability to contain two gaps.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Need, that is yet to be determined.

Best Player Available who fits the NE scheme and upgrades his position, that would seem more likely.

Projected round one DL options:

Stephen Paea, Oregon State
Nick Fairley, Auburn
Marcell Dareus, Alabama
J.J. Watt, Wisconsin

 

[D-Money]

Can guys like Greg Romeus or Jabaal Sheard play in a 3-4 defense?Romeus has been hurt all season.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Can guys like Greg Romeus or Jabaal Sheard play in a 3-4 defense?Romeus has been hurt all season.

Sheard looks like he could play OLB. I didn't watch Romeus last season so I can't say.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Caught the last 3 nebraska games. They were using a 4-3 or 4-2-5 depending on down/distance in the first two. Crick played DT and had trouble getting off of his blocks against Texas and Ok. St. In the Mizzou game, they played a 3-4. Usually 3-3-5 because Mizzou spread offense. He looked much better as a de in a 3-4, than a DT in a 4-3. I hope they play OU in Big 12 title game. That would be a good matchup for him to see what he can do. I like Ballard at 1b if we go olb 1a. He moved to dt from te and is very athletic. He has played some end in their 4-3. I can see him playing end in a 3-4.

If a guy can not get off blocks then BB is not going to draft him. I saw Crick earlier in the year and he did not seem to have that trouble, but clearly Texas and Ok State are better teams than what Nebraska played earlier.

As for Ballard, I think he is benefitted greatly by playing next to Klug. That guy is amazing at anchoring at the point of attack. He must have a natural strength because he does not look that big or buff.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Not listed here is NT Jarell Powe, Ole Miss, who is probably more in the 330# range, but explosive. I've posted before, and believe it is true, that if BB could field three NTs across his front, he would do it. But there aren't that many athletes of that size who have strength and agility to go with it. Powe does. You cant teach size. He has struggled with academics, and was diagnosed with dyslexia. But that doesn't mean he's dumb, just that he struggles to read. In his interviews, he's articulate and mature. He is the clear leader of the Ole Miss team. Given his personality and work ethic, I think BB might consider him on the DL in a DT/DE kind of a way, in the same way Wilfork can play nose or end.

I watched Powe in the Auburn game, not a bad kid, but he reminds me of old Ron Brace, one trick straight ahead, exhausted and easily managed by one blocker halfway through the first quarter. I will keep an eye out to catch another game, and I think he's invited to the Senior Bowl. For now ...

That there is power there is quite apparent. Will he put in the time and effort to condition himself properly? NE would need to make their best estimate on that. I grade him no sooner than the top of the second round, and that's only if you felt he'd do the conditioning work needed, otherwise he's a late round kid good for 10-20 snaps a game.

Ochmed's O-line favorites may also have had something to do with his apparent grade, the Center and Left side T Ziemba, C Pugh, and G Berry were rather dominating against Mississippi. Berry and Pugh initially doubled Powe, but halfway into the first quarter Pugh was dealing with Powe alone with just an occasional chip from Berry.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

If a guy can not get off blocks then BB is not going to draft him. I saw Crick earlier in the year and he did not seem to have that trouble, but clearly Texas and Ok State are better teams than what Nebraska played earlier.

As for Ballard, I think he is benefitted greatly by playing next to Klug. That guy is amazing at anchoring at the point of attack. He must have a natural strength because he does not look that big or buff.

Klug is the man! I've argued that he makes the entire D-line look better since I watched him own Georgia Tech in the Orange Bowl. I'd love to see NE bring him in as a late round pick and see if they can find a role for him - I think if he slimmed down to the 255 range he could be a beast at LOLB - great nose for the ball in trash too, so maybe an eventual move inside. He reminds me of Neal blocking with his wrestling leverage (he was a State champion level competitor in high school), which also makes me wonder if he could learn to snap and play Center in the 290+ range.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I watched Powe in the Auburn game, not a bad kid, but he reminds me of old Ron Brace, one trick straight ahead, exhausted and easily managed by one blocker halfway through the first quarter. I will keep an eye out to catch another game, and I think he's invited to the Senior Bowl. For now ...

That there is power there is quite apparent. Will he put in the time and effort to condition himself properly? NE would need to make their best estimate on that. I grade him no sooner than the top of the second round, and that's only if you felt he'd do the conditioning work needed, otherwise he's a late round kid good for 10-20 snaps a game.

Ochmed's O-line favorites may also have had something to do with his apparent grade, the Center and Left side T Ziemba, C Pugh, and G Berry were rather dominating against Mississippi. Berry and Pugh initially doubled Powe, but halfway into the first quarter Pugh was dealing with Powe alone with just an occasional chip from Berry.

Pugh is a beast and he has worn out countless DT/NT's over the past two seasons. (Except Cody who mauled Pugh) Pugh is extremely smart and is a decent athlete and very rarely is Auburn's Oline in the wrong protection.

On running plays Pugh is excellent at pulling and a decent trap blocker. On passing plays he is rarely beat and always seems to know where the blitz is coming from. I saw him stand up McClain of Alabama last year on a blitz. Very impressive.

I can not wait for Auburn vs. Alabama, fortunately I think we are doing the game so I will have a ring side seat.

Powe is extremely poorly conditioned, but then again not many DT's are conditioned well enough to track down QB Cam (6'6" and 260 pounds), the next Hiesman trophy winner.

Interesting side note: whenever Cam gets in trouble and starts running, notice how many times he follows Pugh. Cam knows where his bread is buttered.

 

[cstjohn17]

Alternatively a free agent could be brought in. Maybe Marcus Spears from Dallas, he has been an under achiever but maybe a change of scenary? binkies die hard...
Marcus Spears, DE for the Dallas Cowboys at NFL.com

 

[Off The Grid]

The entire defense starts with the DL.


I think there is a reason why BB drafted Seymour, Warren and Wilfork in the 1st round. No, another 1st rounder wouldn't be 'rich', it would improve the entire defense.

Currently the incremental value of drafting a stud DE is a far larger increment than any other position. BUT, is that stud that fits the system going to be available when they pick??

This is always worth repeating.

The Impact of The Grizzlies on the D's overall performance DWARFS that of the Secondary.

 

[Off The Grid]

* There's a third category besides need or want -- opportunity.

* The combination of draft ammo and (assuming underclassmen declare) strong talent at DE shapes up to make this a rare opportunity to get a stud DE.

* So even if upgrading the DL is merely a want, they may need to take advantage of this perfect chance.

We have a winner. The number of guys who fit a 3-4 end profile in this draft is exciting. This is an opportunity to pick the best player available.

Concur, sir.

Beautifull point, Sister PatChick.

We approach...an Extraordinary Opportunity.

Carpe Diem, Brothers and Sisters.

Carpe Diem.

 

[Off The Grid]

*Pugh is a beast and he has worn out countless DT/NT's over the past two seasons. (Except Cody who mauled Pugh) Pugh is extremely smart and is a decent athlete and very rarely is Auburn's Oline in the wrong protection.

* On running plays Pugh is excellent at pulling and a decent trap blocker. On passing plays he is rarely beat and always seems to know where the blitz is coming from. I saw him stand up McClain of Alabama last year on a blitz. Very impressive.

I can not wait for Auburn vs. Alabama, fortunately I think we are doing the game so I will have a ring side seat.

Powe is extremely poorly conditioned, but then again not many DT's are conditioned well enough to track down QB Cam (6'6" and 260 pounds), the next Hiesman trophy winner.

* Interesting side note: whenever Cam gets in trouble and starts running, notice how many times he follows Pugh. Cam knows where his bread is buttered.

Exceptional Scouting Report on this Mad Dog, Brother Ochmed.

With your permission, I'll add this fine piece of work to the Center Thread.