10 things we learned

[mike100915]

You clearly don't understand how the Patriots draft. AT ALL.

The Patriots draft best VALUE available. That VALUE comes from a 3 part equation. The three parts of the equation are Physical Attributes, Intangibles, and NEED. It is NOT best player available. Nor is it SOLELY drafting for need. Its a combination.

OH, and, btw, The Raiders didn't draft for need when they drafted McFadden. They drafted BPA.

You want to talk about 2003 and Ty Warren. Lets do so. Ty Warren was the #1 player on the Pats draft chart that year. He wasn't a true need because they drafted him as a DE, not a NT. The Patriots moved UP to draft Warren. That is drafting for VALUE. OH, since you don't remember, the Pats still had Bobby Hamilton as their starting LDE at the time.

You just won't admit it will you? It obviously clear to most people that the Patriots DO draft for need. Obviously, later in the draft it based upon value. However, in Rounds 1 and 2 and sometimes 3 they do draft for need.
This year they needed LB's what they do Mayo and Crable.
07 neede secondary help, what they do Meriweather.
06- They lost Wideouts so what do we do Chad Jackson
05- OL is being lost, Andruzzi goes to Cleveland, what do they do Mankins
04- Lost Ted Washington, luckily Wilfork feel to them, but they wanted Will Smith.
03- DL was horrific couldn't stop the run, what do they do Ty Warren.
02- Belichick wants a TE, also signs Fauria, what's he do Graham.

It's clear that they draft for need in the early rounds. Of course like all teams they draft for value as well, but that is in the later rounds. Why can't you see that they need a LB or a CB and they drafted both in the first two rounds. They almost took DRC in Round 1. If they don't draft for need they why didn't they just select Branden Albert. They always value a player, so if someone offers them say a trade they will compare that to the players value i.e. the Shawn Crable trade, then later drafting him.

Also, name when Schefter is wrong. I want to see this long list.

 

[mike100915]

You want to talk about 2003 and Ty Warren. Lets do so. Ty Warren was the #1 player on the Pats draft chart that year. He wasn't a true need because they drafted him as a DE, not a NT. The Patriots moved UP to draft Warren. That is drafting for VALUE. OH, since you don't remember, the Pats still had Bobby Hamilton as their starting LDE at the time.

Of course Ty Warren was a need, in 03 they couldn't stop the run, thats why they didn't make the playoffs. You can't say that Ty Warren was their #1 player because you'll never know the true answer, of course teams will say that.Also, I actually think their #1 DL was Jonathan Sullivan, and they were trying to trade up for him. I know they also had the smokescreen with Dewayne Roberston, it's possible he could of been their #1 but they didn't want to waste all the picks on him and rightfully so.

 

[bradmahn]

Hey mike100915 (funny, Felger was saying the same thing),

DaBruinz and most aren't saying the Patriots don't draft for need, they are saying that need is part of an equation that determines the value of the player. For instance, this year let's say there were two players on the board, a LB and a WR, both meet all the requirements the Pats look for in either position - they have great measurables, production, smarts, all the stuff they look for. Both players are going to be good, which one would they take?

Drafting for need is drafting for a position only.

 

[JoeSixPat]

1) DRC was the Patriots top Cornerback.

Did BB say that? If so I missed it

2) PatsandTrojans55 isn't the source we thought he was.

And the same can be said for all those who "knew" who would be picked

3) Mayo was their Top LB and not Rivers like some thought

Do we know this? Rivers was picked at 9 - how do we know he wouldn't have been picked at 10? All we can say is that he wasn't deemed worth at #7.

4) Sedrick Ellis interest was a smokescreen to create interest in a trade.

A plausible theory - I never felt he fit well in our system. Thank goodness someone was interested in trading up.

5) Jets wanted Chris Long. And, they didn't love McFadden like some of us including me thought.

If not for the Patriots going 16-0 they would have had the #3 pick - and wouldn't have had to settle for Plan C. Poetic!

6) Patriots aren't sold on Cassel at all. Thank God!

Well, his contract is up after this season. I'd think he'd want to play somewhere else where he'd have more of an opportunity anyway.

7) The Patriots do draft for need.

Yes - all teams do, but its one of many considerations. Need at LB was a bigger consideration this year than in other years, but I just hope Mayo is the right fit - in previous years BB passed on LBs. This year he had little choice IMO.

8) There will be a big competition in Trainning Camp for LB's to make the team.

Mayo makes the team obviously, but as far as playing time, best player wins. The way it should be.

9) Size isn't important to the Patriots when it comes to CB's, they prefer quicker guys with a great C.O.D.

The vast majority of CBs are under 6 feet. If they were over 6 feet they'd probably be WRs. Deal with it.

10) ESPN has the worst coverage of the Draft. NFL Network was far better,[/QUOTE]

ESPN is worse on everything.

 

[DaBruinz]

You just won't admit it will you? It obviously clear to most people that the Patriots DO draft for need. Obviously, later in the draft it based upon value. However, in Rounds 1 and 2 and sometimes 3 they do draft for need.

BTW, what don't you understand about NEED being part of the value equation and NOT the SOLE way that they draft? I have ADMITTED that NEED figures into the euqation, but its not the SOLE way they draft.

This year they needed LB's what they do Mayo and Crable.

Not entirely true. The Patriots have needed LBs for the past 5 years and haven't drafted any before the 5th round (though they did try and get Bradley last year in the 3rd). The need was MUCH higher in 2005 than this year, yet they didn't draft any.

07 neede secondary help, what they do Meriweather.

The Patriots did NOT need help in the secondary. I guess you missed Rodney Harrison, Eugene Wilson, James Sanders, Chad Scott, Randall Gay, Asante Samuel, and Ellis Hobbs already being on the team. Meriweather represented the best VALUE because the Patriots wanted him there for a year before potentially losing Wilson to Free Agency.

06- They lost Wideouts so what do we do Chad Jackson.

Actually, The Pats still had Deion Branch on the roster when Jackson was drafted. In fact, Branch had announced that he was planning on not holding out. Yet, only announced after the draft that he would hold out. And it wasn't until September that Branch was actually dealt. Also, the Pats had already drafted Maroney in the 1st round. He wasn't a NEED because they already had Dillon as their starter.

05- OL is being lost, Andruzzi goes to Cleveland, what do they do Mankins

The Pats were fully ready to start Hochstein at LG. Mankins was going to be their pick regardless of what happened with Andruzzi. And, you might want to remember, that they fully planned on signing Andruzzi, but they didn't get him an offer in time.

04- Lost Ted Washington, luckily Wilfork feel to them, but they wanted Will Smith.

Actually, the Pats had signed Keith Traylor by that point. The Pats didn't want Will Smith. They actually were trying to get Vilma and Wilfork fell into their laps.

03- DL was horrific couldn't stop the run, what do they do Ty Warren.

The Pats had Warren as their top pick in the draft. They moved UP to get him. However, they never intended to play him at NT. He was slated to be a DE behind Bobby Hamilton.

The reason the Pats couldn't stop the run in 2002 was because they didn't have a legitimate NT. And they solved that issue during TC by getting Ted Washington. And that was after they realized that neither Seymour nor Warren were best suited for that position.

02- Belichick wants a TE, also signs Fauria, what's he do Graham.

Again, Graham represented the best value on the Patriots board. Fauria had already been signed and was going to be the starter. So, there wouldn't be pressure on Graham to come in and produce immediately.

It's clear that they draft for need in the early rounds. Of course like all teams they draft for value as well, but that is in the later rounds. Why can't you see that they need a LB or a CB and they drafted both in the first two rounds. They almost took DRC in Round 1. If they don't draft for need they why didn't they just select Branden Albert. They always value a player, so if someone offers them say a trade they will compare that to the players value i.e. the Shawn Crable trade, then later drafting him.

Also, name when Schefter is wrong. I want to see this long list.

Name when Schefter has been wrong? Easily. Javon Kearse going to the Giants. Then the announcement of Lavar Arrington going there in March, but it didn't happen until June. And only after a LOT of hemming and hawing on the part of the Giants.

Also, Schefter reported that Javon Walker was coming to the Patriots and had even said that Walker was on the plane. On a few occasions. And we know that wasn't the case at all. Walker never left Denver.

 

[DaBruinz]

Of course Ty Warren was a need, in 03 they couldn't stop the run, thats why they didn't make the playoffs. You can't say that Ty Warren was their #1 player because you'll never know the true answer, of course teams will say that.Also, I actually think their #1 DL was Jonathan Sullivan, and they were trying to trade up for him. I know they also had the smokescreen with Dewayne Roberston, it's possible he could of been their #1 but they didn't want to waste all the picks on him and rightfully so.

Ty Warren was NOT a need in 03. The reason they couldn't stop the run was because they had no NT. And Warren was drafted to be a DE in the 3-4, not a NT.

Actually, I can say that Warren was their #1 player because it was mentioned in Holley's book. And, no, the Patriots weren't trying to trade up for Sullivan. They traded up to get Warren.

 

[mike100915]

BTW, what don't you understand about NEED being part of the value equation and NOT the SOLE way that they draft? I have ADMITTED that NEED figures into the euqation, but its not the SOLE way they draft.



Not entirely true. The Patriots have needed LBs for the past 5 years and haven't drafted any before the 5th round (though they did try and get Bradley last year in the 3rd). The need was MUCH higher in 2005 than this year, yet they didn't draft any.



The Patriots did NOT need help in the secondary. I guess you missed Rodney Harrison, Eugene Wilson, James Sanders, Chad Scott, Randall Gay, Asante Samuel, and Ellis Hobbs already being on the team. Meriweather represented the best VALUE because the Patriots wanted him there for a year before potentially losing Wilson to Free Agency.

Actually, The Pats still had Deion Branch on the roster when Jackson was drafted. In fact, Branch had announced that he was planning on not holding out. Yet, only announced after the draft that he would hold out. And it wasn't until September that Branch was actually dealt. Also, the Pats had already drafted Maroney in the 1st round. He wasn't a NEED because they already had Dillon as their starter.


The Pats were fully ready to start Hochstein at LG. Mankins was going to be their pick regardless of what happened with Andruzzi. And, you might want to remember, that they fully planned on signing Andruzzi, but they didn't get him an offer in time.


Actually, the Pats had signed Keith Traylor by that point. The Pats didn't want Will Smith. They actually were trying to get Vilma and Wilfork fell into their laps.



The Pats had Warren as their top pick in the draft. They moved UP to get him. However, they never intended to play him at NT. He was slated to be a DE behind Bobby Hamilton.

The reason the Pats couldn't stop the run in 2002 was because they didn't have a legitimate NT. And they solved that issue during TC by getting Ted Washington. And that was after they realized that neither Seymour nor Warren were best suited for that position.



Again, Graham represented the best value on the Patriots board. Fauria had already been signed and was going to be the starter. So, there wouldn't be pressure on Graham to come in and produce immediately.



Name when Schefter has been wrong? Easily. Javon Kearse going to the Giants. Then the announcement of Lavar Arrington going there in March, but it didn't happen until June. And only after a LOT of hemming and hawing on the part of the Giants.

Also, Schefter reported that Javon Walker was coming to the Patriots and had even said that Walker was on the plane. On a few occasions. And we know that wasn't the case at all. Walker never left Denver.

I also read Patriot Reign and I don't believe it stated that Ty Warren was their #1. They trade up 1 spot to get him to make sure they got a DL because there was a run on them in that draft, he was the last one left after Jimmy Kennedy went to St Louis.

Also, the Patriots did want Will Smith, in fact they were trying to trade up to get him. It was said they would have taken Vilma if he was there, but they were trying to get Smith.

The Chad Jackson trade was because of need, because they lost Daid Givens and knew Branch would be a hold out, anyways if they had Branch they still need WR's badly.

They took Meriweather because of need as well. Wilson was decling and would be a FA. Samuel would be a hold out and gone the next year. Chad Scott is simply just a JAG, and Gay is very injury prone. And Sanders wasn't proven at all.

Yeah, the Patriots were in love with Hochstein(j/k), they needed Guard, and obviously weren't sold on Hochstein, and if they didn't take him the 49ers would have taken him with the next pick. They took David Bass.

Keith Traylot doesn't excatly fill a huge hole. They needed alot of help on that line. They were thrashed game in and out on the run, and they need DL badly. Hence the drafting of Warren.

Also, they traded up to get Graham because they needed the TE to strech the field. It's something Belichick tried to address in previous drafts. It was a hiuge need because they didn't love Wiggins and Rutledge was terrible.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't believe that Schefter was the one who reported that Walker was in New England. I think that may have been Curran or Felger. There is no way he'd be wrong when it comes to Denver. He has a strong relationship with Shanahan in Denver.

In the First two rounds of the draft, I feel it is very clear that the Patriots draft for need. Most teams do now cause you have too. There paying these rookies big money and they have to come in and play almost right away. They will move down based on value for their pick. They didn't take a LB last with their 2nd pick, like we thought they wanted Harris, maybe they wanted Beason and that's what lead to the trade, but they did take a few LB's later in the draft, but that was more value then need.

 

[DaBruinz]

I also read Patriot Reign and I don't believe it stated that Ty Warren was their #1. They trade up 1 spot to get him to make sure they got a DL because there was a run on them in that draft, he was the last one left after Jimmy Kennedy went to St Louis.

*sigh* I suggest you go read it again then.

Also, the Patriots did want Will Smith, in fact they were trying to trade up to get him. It was said they would have taken Vilma if he was there, but they were trying to get Smith.

No, the Pats wanted Vilma. Smith was a smokescreen. However, when the Jets took Vilma, the Pats were amazed that Wilfork fell into their laps..

The Chad Jackson trade was because of need, because they lost Daid Givens and knew Branch would be a hold out, anyways if they had Branch they still need WR's badly.

Wrong. The Pats did NOT know that Branch would hold out. On the contrary. In April, prior to the draft, Branch went on record as saying he'd honor his contract and would be at the mini Camps. It wasn't until early May that he changed his tune and said he would be holding out.

They took Meriweather because of need as well. Wilson was decling and would be a FA. Samuel would be a hold out and gone the next year. Chad Scott is simply just a JAG, and Gay is very injury prone. And Sanders wasn't proven at all.

Meriweather wasn't a NEED because the Pats didn't NEED to put him in the line-up immediately. NEED is just that. A hole in your starting line-up that needs to be filled.

Sanders was proven. He'd spent the entire prior year playing and playing well.

Yeah, the Patriots were in love with Hochstein(j/k), they needed Guard, and obviously weren't sold on Hochstein, and if they didn't take him the 49ers would have taken him with the next pick. They took David Bass.

Nothing like not knowing what you are talking about. The Patriots were perfectly happy going into TC with Hochstein as the starter. And its amazing how you disregard the fact that the Pats tried to retain Andruzzi. It doesn't change the fact that Mankins wasn't a NEED in the sense that they didn't have a player capable of starting at LG. They had at least 2 in Hochstein and Yates.

And, the 49ers potentially taking Mankins has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

Keith Traylot doesn't excatly fill a huge hole. They needed alot of help on that line. They were thrashed game in and out on the run, and they need DL badly. Hence the drafting of Warren.

The Pats were thrashed game in and game out during the 2002 season because they didn't have a NT. PERIOD. If you'd read Patriots Reign, you'd know that. The rest of the line was fine. Seymour and Bobby Hamilton both started the next year.

Also, they traded up to get Graham because they needed the TE to strech the field. It's something Belichick tried to address in previous drafts. It was a hiuge need because they didn't love Wiggins and Rutledge was terrible.

It was a need. Not a HUGE need.

Nothing you have said changes the fact that NEED is part of the value equation. NOTHING. And you just don't see that.

In the First two rounds of the draft, I feel it is very clear that the Patriots draft for need. Most teams do now cause you have too. There paying these rookies big money and they have to come in and play almost right away. They will move down based on value for their pick. They didn't take a LB last with their 2nd pick, like we thought they wanted Harris, maybe they wanted Beason and that's what lead to the trade, but they did take a few LB's later in the draft, but that was more value then need.

Good for you. You can feel whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that the Patriots have stated, time and again, that they draft based on VALUE and that NEED is a part of the value equation that they use.

It also doesn't change the fact that drafting for need means that you take the "highest player available at the highest need position" on your team, regardless of what he actually brings to the table.

As I pointed out to you. The Raiders did not have a need for a RB, yet they took McFadden. Will he still be expected to come in and contribute right away? Yep. Mayo, on the other hand, will be expected to come in and LEARN the defense. Will he get time in the rotation? Certainly. But anyone expecting him to start at ILB from day 1 has unrealistic expectations.

 

[mike100915]

First off you can't basis any arguement on the Raiders and even though they have 27 running backs they did need one. Rhodes is gone and Jordan won't be far behind. Thei offense was terrible.

You just drink the Kool-Aid and have no thoughts for yourself, and your wrong about Warren being their #1 on the chart. Of course the Patriots will state they draft for value over need, everyone says that. But, in the end they all draft fot need. I hope you don't believe everything Belichick says. Also, how was the Smith trade a smoke screen, they were trying to trade up for him long after Vilmas was picked? But, I guess you were in the war room. The Meriweather pick was for need for this upcoming season and also for last season. Just because he didn't start doesn't mean it wasn't a need, they do many defensive sets were they use multiple db's. They need more then just 4. And, he played alot at the end of year, more then Wilson, and Sanders wasn't proven. He had that horrific game against Denver on the missed tackle and they weren't sure about him. They didn't draft Ty Warren for NT anyways he was for DE, too replace Bobby Hamilton, because Hamilton was old and was getting killed in 02. Which is why they drafted Warren. They Patriots obviously weren't sold on Hochstein, if they kind of reached a bit in the draft to make sure to fill they need at guard by taking Mankins. Chad Jackson they traded up for because even if Branch was there they had no one else. Just Branch, Caldwel, Terrell, and Brown. They need a impact WR and they traded up to get one. Open your eyes, look at all their First Round picks it based on need, but also value, but they pick in the 1st round the areas of need. Maybe being in Texas you don't see what is happening here on a daily basis. Belichick's word isn't gospel. Of course, he like to sound like the Patriots never rush to judgement and draft for need, but the picks show that he does.

 

[The Hurricane]

oodles of vagaries and excuses for providing terribly wrong information

I still can't believe anybody bought into this guy's BS. If this guy is an insider, then I'm Bill Belichick .... oh, wait I AM Bill Belichick so maybe you guys should believe him. :singing:

 

[mike100915]

Schefter has been wrong MANY times. Also, since you missed it, Schefter was down next to the podium. So, the only "inside" information" he fed about the picks is the information he announced prior to Gene Washington getting up on the podium. Its really a neat trick and makes it look like Schefter was providing information. But when you stopped to see where he was, you realized that he was just getting the information from the guy who had the card prior to giving the information to Gene Washington.

If you'd like, we can start naming all the signings that Schefter claimed would happen that never materialized. The list is extremely long.

OH, and Schefter didn't break the news on Seau. That was actually reported by the San Diego Tribune 2 days prior to Schefter saying anything.

Per Schefter today from Peter King's Tuesday Morning Quarterback:When it comes to live draft shows, the league informs the TV stations of the picks 30 seconds before they are announced, so producers and talent can get B-roll, boards and thoughts ready. So Adam Schefter wasn't calling picks, he was ruining the drama of the draft for all of us. Rich Eisen was guilty of this as well. Why couldn't they just say with the pick, here is the Commissioner? Very frustrating!''

I think it's likely that the pick is given to the graphics people in the truck for the networks 15 or 20 seconds before the commissioner's announcement, but I'm told there is an embargo that is pretty strict about not reporting it on the air. For instance, I do know that Schefter's bosses were not very pleased that he announced the Dustin Keller pick by the Jets 15 seconds before Goodell did -- and, in fact, Schefter and his bosses are going to discuss whether he can break the picks on the air next year before Goodell calls them out.

Re your question, I went to the horse's mouth Monday night. I asked Schefter, who I trust implicitly, for his response to your email. Here it is: "Thank you for the backhanded compliment, Chad. I can honestly tell you that my producers, or the Network, or the league, did not give me a single pick. Not one. Nor would they ever; it's not fair to teams, fans, reporters, anybody. Any pick that I reported I got from a team or from hours and days and weeks of preparation (just ask my family, which I haven't seen in close to a month).

"In fact, not only did it annoy you, Chad, but it annoyed some of my bosses as well. They are -- and have been -- wrestling with whether they should allow me to report the pick or rain on the drama of the moment. And it wasn't just you, Chad. On more than a few occasions, I was able to tell Commissioner Roger Goodell the pick before he saw it on the card and marched up to the podium to announce it. At first he seemed a bit annoyed by it (and if you haven't noticed yet, I can be very annoying). But after a while, he seemed amused and accepted it.

"Chad, trust me on this: It's just one man trying really hard to do his job, and getting a little lucky -- no cheating at all involved. And besides, anyone following football knows the commissioner doesn't stand for or like cheating. He has no tolerance for it. If he found out I were doing it, he would fine/suspend/take away some of my draft pick air time. So, as Bill Belichick might say, I'm just trying to get ready for the next draft.''

Wrong Again! This is a theme for you.

 

[DaBruinz]

First off you can't basis any arguement on the Raiders and even though they have 27 running backs they did need one. Rhodes is gone and Jordan won't be far behind. Thei offense was terrible.

You just drink the Kool-Aid and have no thoughts for yourself, and your wrong about Warren being their #1 on the chart. Of course the Patriots will state they draft for value over need, everyone says that. But, in the end they all draft fot need. I hope you don't believe everything Belichick says. Also, how was the Smith trade a smoke screen, they were trying to trade up for him long after Vilmas was picked? But, I guess you were in the war room. The Meriweather pick was for need for this upcoming season and also for last season. Just because he didn't start doesn't mean it wasn't a need, they do many defensive sets were they use multiple db's. They need more then just 4. And, he played alot at the end of year, more then Wilson, and Sanders wasn't proven. He had that horrific game against Denver on the missed tackle and they weren't sure about him. They didn't draft Ty Warren for NT anyways he was for DE, too replace Bobby Hamilton, because Hamilton was old and was getting killed in 02. Which is why they drafted Warren. They Patriots obviously weren't sold on Hochstein, if they kind of reached a bit in the draft to make sure to fill they need at guard by taking Mankins. Chad Jackson they traded up for because even if Branch was there they had no one else. Just Branch, Caldwel, Terrell, and Brown. They need a impact WR and they traded up to get one. Open your eyes, look at all their First Round picks it based on need, but also value, but they pick in the 1st round the areas of need. Maybe being in Texas you don't see what is happening here on a daily basis. Belichick's word isn't gospel. Of course, he like to sound like the Patriots never rush to judgement and draft for need, but the picks show that he does.

WOW. Nothing like talking totally out your arse. I don't think for myself? That's laughable coming from someone who can't understand that NEED is part of the Patriots value equation. Its not a matter of VALUE over NEED. VALUE is NOT just Tangibles and intangilbes. Its ALSO about NEED. ALL 3. Why are you being so ignorant?

Bobby Hamilton wasn't getting killed in 02. Bobby Hamilton was the Pats best defensive lineman in 02. That's fact. Yes, he was better than Seymour and under-rated by many.

Nice of you to use my argument about Ty Warren. That supports my view. NOT yours, that he was taken strictly because of need.

How do you know that the Patriots weren't sold on going into the year with Hochstein as the starter? Taking Mankins doesn't mean that they weren't. They took Mankins because he was the best VALUE. Value being Tangibles, Intangibles and NEED combined.

Chad Jackson was drafted because of VALUE. Again, that takes into consideration NEED. And the Patriots moved up to get him because of VALUE. The Patriots didn't NEED to draft him. As you pointed out, they had Branch, Caldwell, Brown and others. In a perfect world, Jackson would have developed behind Caldwell and Branch. Unfortunately, Branch decided to be a d!ck and Jackson's hamstring wasn't fully healed when he started playing for the Pats. Jackson was taken not to be a starter as a rookie. But because he offered VALUE.

The Meriweather pick was not STRICTLY for need. It was for value. Again, that is the concept you do not seem capable of grasping. I don't understand WHY you can't grasp the concept of VALUE. Its not a very hard concept. Meriweather was chosen to protect the Patriots in case Wilson continued to slide and they decided to part ways with him. They were hedging their bets, basically. As it turned out, they were correct. Wilson ended up on the bench by the end of the year and Meriweather had moved into the starting rotation.

Listen, I've got a much better handle on all the draft picks that the Pats have taken since 2002 than you have. I understand how the Pats felt they offered value where they were drafted. And I understand that VALUE is a combination of Tangibles, intangibles and need.

My being in Texas doesn't mean a damn thing thanks to the internet. And, while Belichick's word isn't gospel, I fully understand that he's human and can make mistakes. I also understand that the players that they chose have a LARGER role in how they produce than Belichick does. Belichick can only lead them to the water. He can't make them drink.

If the Patriots drafted for NEED, then last year they wouldn't have taken Meriweather and they wouldn't have traded their other 1st rounder for the 49ers 1st round in 2008. They would have drafted Harris and Spencer since that is where the biggest needs were on the Patriots last year. However, they didn't. They drafted Meriweather. A SAFETY. Not a LBer.

If the Pats drafted for NEED, then they would constantly be trading UP and mortgaging the future to get players for NOW. They don't do that. They work the draft and get picks for following years.

If the Pats drafted for NEED, they would have drafted Manny Lawson or Demeco Ryans in 2006. Hell, they might have even drafted Santonio Holmes.

The issue here is that I don't believe you understand what the differences are between drafting for need, drafting the best player available, and drafting for VALUE.

Drafting for NEED means taking the highest player at a position regardless of whether or not his tangibles and intangibles actually fit with your team philosophy.

Drafting best player available means taking the highest rated player on your board regardless of the position.

Drafting for VALUE is considering the tangibles, intangibles and team need when you set up your board and as you go through the draft.

If you can comprehend the difference, great. If not, so be it. Don't bother responding because you spewing the same stuff over and over doesn't change the fact you don't know what you are talking about. And several other posters have told you the same thing.

 

[SamBamsFan]

He quoted this article-
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/04/29/mailbag/index.html
which relate a Schefter reply to Peter King. He didn't use quotations, or link the source (though he did cite it).

 

[DaBruinz]

He quoted this article-
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/04/29/mailbag/index.html
which relate a Schefter reply to Peter King. He didn't use quotations, or link the source (though he did cite it).

Gotcha. Mike's failure to use proper quotes made it seem like HE, himself, wrote to Schefter.

Thanks, Sam, for the clarification.

 

[mike100915]

WOW. Nothing like talking totally out your arse. I don't think for myself? That's laughable coming from someone who can't understand that NEED is part of the Patriots value equation. Its not a matter of VALUE over NEED. VALUE is NOT just Tangibles and intangilbes. Its ALSO about NEED. ALL 3. Why are you being so ignorant?

Bobby Hamilton wasn't getting killed in 02. Bobby Hamilton was the Pats best defensive lineman in 02. That's fact. Yes, he was better than Seymour and under-rated by many.

Nice of you to use my argument about Ty Warren. That supports my view. NOT yours, that he was taken strictly because of need.

How do you know that the Patriots weren't sold on going into the year with Hochstein as the starter? Taking Mankins doesn't mean that they weren't. They took Mankins because he was the best VALUE. Value being Tangibles, Intangibles and NEED combined.

Chad Jackson was drafted because of VALUE. Again, that takes into consideration NEED. And the Patriots moved up to get him because of VALUE. The Patriots didn't NEED to draft him. As you pointed out, they had Branch, Caldwell, Brown and others. In a perfect world, Jackson would have developed behind Caldwell and Branch. Unfortunately, Branch decided to be a d!ck and Jackson's hamstring wasn't fully healed when he started playing for the Pats. Jackson was taken not to be a starter as a rookie. But because he offered VALUE.

The Meriweather pick was not STRICTLY for need. It was for value. Again, that is the concept you do not seem capable of grasping. I don't understand WHY you can't grasp the concept of VALUE. Its not a very hard concept. Meriweather was chosen to protect the Patriots in case Wilson continued to slide and they decided to part ways with him. They were hedging their bets, basically. As it turned out, they were correct. Wilson ended up on the bench by the end of the year and Meriweather had moved into the starting rotation.

Listen, I've got a much better handle on all the draft picks that the Pats have taken since 2002 than you have. I understand how the Pats felt they offered value where they were drafted. And I understand that VALUE is a combination of Tangibles, intangibles and need.

My being in Texas doesn't mean a damn thing thanks to the internet. And, while Belichick's word isn't gospel, I fully understand that he's human and can make mistakes. I also understand that the players that they chose have a LARGER role in how they produce than Belichick does. Belichick can only lead them to the water. He can't make them drink.

If the Patriots drafted for NEED, then last year they wouldn't have taken Meriweather and they wouldn't have traded their other 1st rounder for the 49ers 1st round in 2008. They would have drafted Harris and Spencer since that is where the biggest needs were on the Patriots last year. However, they didn't. They drafted Meriweather. A SAFETY. Not a LBer.

If the Pats drafted for NEED, then they would constantly be trading UP and mortgaging the future to get players for NOW. They don't do that. They work the draft and get picks for following years.

If the Pats drafted for NEED, they would have drafted Manny Lawson or Demeco Ryans in 2006. Hell, they might have even drafted Santonio Holmes.

The issue here is that I don't believe you understand what the differences are between drafting for need, drafting the best player available, and drafting for VALUE.

Drafting for NEED means taking the highest player at a position regardless of whether or not his tangibles and intangibles actually fit with your team philosophy.

Drafting best player available means taking the highest rated player on your board regardless of the position.

Drafting for VALUE is considering the tangibles, intangibles and team need when you set up your board and as you go through the draft.

If you can comprehend the difference, great. If not, so be it. Don't bother responding because you spewing the same stuff over and over doesn't change the fact you don't know what you are talking about. And several other posters have told you the same thing.

Who do you think you are? Ernie Adams.

Bobby Hamilton did have a bad year in 02, like most of the DL except for Seymour. What are you Pepper Johnson now, and can rate the DL too. Your simply try to say that because you fail to realize they need a new ended in their system, hence why they neeeded Ty Warren.

The Patriots took Meriweather at their pick because they knew Philly would take him with their pick, then when Beason was gone, the 49ers offer obviously was better then they thought any player was at 26, which they were right about. They liked Harris, but that came towards value for the pick.
The could have traded the #10 pick to New Orleans for their 1 next year and the #40 pick New Orleans second round pick, but Mayo's value and their NEED were much more important.

Chad Jackson wasn't drafted for value, they moved up to get him because in thier opionon he was the WR in the draft along with their relationship with Urban Meyer and their NEED for a WR they had to get him. The Patriots didn't draft Holmes because he had off the field isses, along with a reported 4 kids. He was a high risk.

The reason they didn't take Manny Lawson or Demeco Ryans, is for 1 obviously they didn't fit their system, and another was size. Patriots if you haven't realized like really big LB's and Ryans certainly isn't that. He's an excellent football player but at the time the felt he wasn't big enough for them.

Just cause you draft for need doesn't mean you have to constanly move up. Why do you feel to realize this was clearly a draft for need. There isn't nothing wrong with that. Your being very ignorant and can't realize too see that all teams draft for needs in the first couple rounds of the draft.

As far as you having a better handle then me you obviously don't. You just drink the Kool-Aid and fail to realize things. Of course all picks are based upon a set value, hence why they did trade last year's 1 to the 49ers. But, just look at all of Belichick's 1st rounders and most 2nd rounders they were all drafted based upon a need. If they didn't draft for need why didn't they take Sedrick Ellis, who according to Michael Holley was in their Top 5.

 

[mike100915]

You were already wrong about Schefter, you made something up and tried to make it sound like you knew what you were talking about, but you didn't and it was clearly proved you were wrong about that. Just like you are about this.