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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mike100915, Apr 28, 2008.

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  1. mike100915

    mike100915 On the Game Day Roster

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    1) DRC was the Patriots top Cornerback.
    2) PatsandTrojans55 isn't the source we thought he was.
    3) Mayo was their Top LB and not Rivers like some thought
    4) Sedrick Ellis interest was a smokescreen to create interest in a trade.
    5) Jets wanted Chris Long. And, they didn't love McFadden like some of us including me thought.
    6) Patriots aren't sold on Cassel at all. Thank God!
    7) The Patriots do draft for need.
    8) There will be a big competition in Trainning Camp for LB's to make the team.
    9) Size isn't important to the Patriots when it comes to CB's, they prefer quicker guys with a great C.O.D.
    10) ESPN has the worst coverage of the Draft. NFL Network was far better,
     
  2. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    (1) Link? I didn't see this.
    (6) Regardless of sales level, Cassel is a UFA at the end of the year, and there's no way in hell they're franchising him. It'll be interesting to see how this situation sorts itself out.
    (7) No rational analyst of the Pats drafts would argue they ignore need entirely. That said, they may not give it as much weight as some people do.
     
  3. mike100915

    mike100915 On the Game Day Roster

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    1) Was referenced on Draft day by both Michael Smith and Adam Schefter. Each said that DRC was their Top CB and did actually consider drafting him, which surprised the hell out of me.
    6) I'm not so sure that Cassel is on the team coming out of Trainning Camp. They won't carry 4 QB's, and they like Gutierrez alot as well. I most likely see a trade of Cassel somewhere, possibly the Bears.
    7) This draft they paid huge attention to drafting for need.
     
  4. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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    Michael Smith did report that DRC OR a top LB would be their pick. If Mayo went 9 to the Bengals (as he should have), the Pats would have pulled the trigger on DRC. They loved him and worked him out personally as early as Tuesday of last week.

    I will give PT55 this, he did say that the Pats had pulled a top small school corner completely off their draft board, that guy was McKelvin.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2008
  5. sc patriot

    sc patriot On the Roster

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    It appears after their evaluations they are are set on O.
    And now there are some numbers at LB and CB to fight for some spots.
     
  6. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    1) Did someone say this after the fact?
    2) No comment
    3) Agreed
    4) I don't know... I wouldn't have been surprised if the Pats took Ellis if they couldn't find a trade partner and HAD to pick at #7.
    5) I think the Jets would have taken Gholston over McFadden if both had been available, but I don't think that means they didn't like McFadden a lot.
    6) Agreed.
    7) Eh, kind of. Need is part of their equation, but it's more like the needs two years from now. They're not counting on these kids being starters this year. If they are, fantastic, if not, we have vets to stop gap the positions for a year or two.
    8) Agreed
    9) Agreed
    10) Didn't watch NFL Network, but from what I saw on ESPN I would have to agree with you anyway :p
     
  7. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    7) the 3 LBs and 2 CBs would suggest this but than there is the QB in round 3...and you can't say there was need there. I think need obviously has to come into the equation but I think what the pats are really good at is not drafting solely for need but you would be stupid to ignore it.

    10) I have 3 TVs in our sports den and watched quite a lot of both coverages and NFL network was by far, bar none much much better. Mayock analysis of the picks and the way the draft was unfolding was awsome and Schefter with his blackberry and inside info was awsome. Compared to the bumbling has beens on ESPN and I dont mean Kiper I mean all the ex athletes they have on their who had no clue about the draft. Those guys are great for there insight of the sport but they had nothing as far as draft analysis.

    Too bad the people who don't have the NFL network couldn't have seen that because they would than want to buy it.
     
  8. BRiZ

    BRiZ Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    2) PatsandTrojans55 isn't the source we thought he was.

    LOOOOL PT55 owned.

    i like how he dawged drc talk about being wrong.
     
  9. mike100915

    mike100915 On the Game Day Roster

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    I too was wrong about DRC, there was actually a possibilty they were going to draft him. I think if they didn't take Mayo they would of taken DRC. Kind of surprising to me. Just to let everyone know, but Michael Smith of ESPN, and Adam Schefter of NFL Network both said that DRC was their top corner and they considered him at #10. PS Michael Holley said they wouldn't of taken Branden Alber at #10 or at #15 if they moved down further.

    PatsTrojans55 was a fraud. Sorry to admit it. I liked his insight, but I think some of us, me included were fooled.
     
  10. bradmahn

    bradmahn In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm not inclined to believe PatsandTrojans55 had any more insider info than anyone else (there was nothing to prove just such a case in the draft, and he'd have to have smoking gun evidence to rise from the depths of "just another message board poster"), but Michael Smith's reports are not enough to prove any high level of interest in Dominique Rodgers.
     
  11. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Need vs Value:

    - This is a misunderstood concept, and Felger is always distorting it

    - Need influences draft strategy, no question, but the Pats never let it be the primary determinent.

    - Value comes first, and I think they view Need as a tiebreaker, along with Rare. At a given drafting position, they first look at who's got the right value at that spot. From that list, if they see a player that also meets a need, bingo.

    - If they don't see a player that meets a need but suspect that they will get that combination of value & need at a lower draft point, they'll try to trade down and gain an extra pick.

    - If they can't trade down, they'll take the value pick, even if it's not a need.

    - In round one, they had 2 players they loved: Mayo and DRC. Both represented excellent value at 10, along with probably 2 or 3 other guys at other positions. They had need at both LB and CB, so that narrowed the pool to those 2. Because they felt Mayo was really rare, that's what led to his selection.

    - Notice they didn't jump at Mayo at #7, because the value wasn't there at 7. In the upper first round, a few slots either way is huge. They knew that they would be overpaying both in dollars and in potential picks if they did that, and they were right. New Orleans agreed.

    - If they had been drafting at 3 or 5, and were unable to make a deal down that had the right value, chances are they would have taken Dorsey because he would have represented the better value pick.

    - In the 3rd round, O'Connell represented the best value, along with being a very rare athlete. Value and rarity trumped Need in that case.

    So you can see from those examples that Value is really the driver, but Need plays into the final selection.
     
  12. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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    "- In round one, they had 2 players they loved: Mayo and DRC. Both represented excellent value at 10, along with probably 2 or 3 other guys at other positions. They had need at both LB and CB, so that narrowed the pool to those 2. Because they felt Mayo was really rare, that's what led to his selection."

    Well said, DRC and Mayo were the top 2 guys on their board, yet Mayo had a slight, slight edge based on the unqiueness of what he would bring to the defense.


    Briz are you as heart-broken as I was, when I saw Michael Smith give us that DRC update as a possible pick, I went nuts.
     
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  13. mike100915

    mike100915 On the Game Day Roster

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    What about when Adam Schefter says it? He's word is like Gospel. He has a good relationship with the Patriots, and honestly how often is he wrong. I agree with Michael Smith even though he like Michael Holley has good insight within the Patriots, but Schefter's never wrong. I honestly thought it would be Cason, Jenkins or McKelvin.
     
  14. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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    "I'm not inclined to believe PatsandTrojans55 had any more insider info than anyone else (there was nothing to prove just such a case in the draft, and he'd have to have smoking gun evidence to rise from the depths of "just another message board poster"), but Michael Smith's reports are not enough to prove any high level of interest in Dominique Rodgers."

    bradmahn, if that were in fact the case, then why would BB WASTE the time / flight cost and dinner expenses sending down their scouts to privately work out DRC at TSU this past Tuesday. You can hate DRC as much as you, but the Pats loved him and he was #2 on their board behind Mayo and it was a close #2 at that.
     
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  15. bradmahn

    bradmahn In the Starting Line-Up

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    That's some serious hyperbole. It was definitely a possibility, but no more than that. We're talking about a situation that was "leaked" before the pick that didn't happen - to me, that looks more suspicious than worthy of being used as evidence to jump down the throat of someone or to prove any sort of interest in a prospect.

    I thought there were other positions that were a better fit for what the team can do on defense than a cornerback, I'm happy the front office agreed on at least one of those spots.
     
  16. bradmahn

    bradmahn In the Starting Line-Up

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    Whoa, whoa, whoa... it's bradmahn.

    Sending scouts to work out a prospect is doing your due diligence, if Belichick hadn't done as much I'd be upset with their approach and preparation. (...Off topic, do you have any confirmation for that? I ask because I hadn't seen the reports...)

    Now, you can hypothesize all you want that he was a "close #2" but you don't know that for sure... we can't even say with certainty Mayo was number one (or not) on their board. The only thing we can say is that they deemed Mayo and the trade down to be the wisest pick and situation than anything else on the table (including Dominique).

    The only problem I had with Rodgers was the risk of taking such a small school player high and the seeming devaluation of a high first round cornerback. I thought all along they would be better served using the pick on a front seven defensive player (or a trade down). Not to toot my own horn here, but it looks like the Pats thought that was a better option as well.
     
  17. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    i dont see the connection between PT55 and the second comment of the OP

    show me what PT55 said that was wrong....
     
  18. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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  19. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    1.) As much as I hate taking Mayo, I am much happier we did not get DRC.
    2.) Agreed.
    3.) Agreed.
    4.) Agreed.
    5.) I think the Jets front office smoked screened themselves until they were too stoned to talk a straight line and then they lucked out when Gholston fell in their lap.
    6.) Didn't Cassell win one of the offseason preferred parking spots? I guess the game in Miami still lingers in everyone's mind.
    7.) Agreed.
    8.) My guess is that unless there is an injury, BB already knows 50 of the 53 spots on the roster.
    9.) Quick Twitch is key when playing soft zones. Wheatley and Wilhite were burned repeatedly last season in man, but played well when they did NOT have to turn their back on the QB and could keep everything in front of them. Also tackling is very important as well for BB.
    10.) Mayock and Davis are so much better than Jaws, Keyshawn and Diaper Jr. Plus NFL network let's Mayock and Davis talk about the prospects, ESPN doesn't do that and I think Berman is a huge part of the problem. He is a terrible draft host. Let Berman cover the BPA tour and let Terico give some mike time to the "experts" and occasionally throw the idiot Diaper a bone as well.
     
  20. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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    Ochmed, a couple things:

    1. What do you see in these 2 CB's that you don't see in someone like DRC and why don't you think DRC would be a good fit for our defense? Apparently BB and Pioli liked DRC ALOT.

    2. Why don't you like the Mayo pick, is it simply based on where he was selected or did you want someone else?
     
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