The NFL mirrors American business in a bad way

RecoveringCowboy · Mar 31, 2016

I'm not defending the NFL by saying they are not alone.

Until last year, they used their tax-exempt status from a law back in 1967? Billions of dollars in profits and numerous scandals later, the NFL decides they better not wait for Congress to address this.

In recent years, we have heard of US companies doing well, even making record profits yet they move plants to other countries. Likewise, we have seen stadiums evolve from wooden bleachers to theater-type seats that are increasingly crowded out by suites only companies can afford. Both will get comunities to subsides them with tax dollars if they move there. In both instances - it's how far can I go? Not what's the right thing? The NFL is different than most businesses.

Millions of fans follow the NFL, so it's harder for them to hide their actions. I don't have to regurgitate the scandals on Goodell's watch - it's a reflection of the NFL is not governed by the doing the right thing. Instead, Goodell is governed by the situation - the inconsistency is comical. Penalities are determined by whether or not a team is to get a break (Rice/Ravens), or a team to get (DeflateGate.) Other variables include the political climate over topics such as domestic violence, and potential lawsuits (BountyGate - we care about player's safety

.)

Members here have pointed out Goodell may be the first NFL commissioner in a long time with no legal background, and it shows. Other than the ethics of doing the right thing, it's consistent - inconsistency gives you nightmares in a court of law. Wait a minute - in theory ethical and legal should be the same! Courts look for inconsistency as evidence of wrongdoing - being illegal, unethical.

Let's hope fans will keep a close eye on the NFL and hold their feet to the fire.

QuantumMechanic · Mar 31, 2016

RecoveringCowboy said:
Until last year, they used their tax-exempt status from a law back in 1967? Billions of dollars in profits and numerous scandals later, the NFL decides they better not wait for Congress to address this.

For the record, that tax-exempt status did virtually nothing re: the amount of taxes the NFL as an overall operation paid.

The only thing that was tax-exempt was essentially NFL HQ. Virtually all revenues go to the 32 teams, 31 of which are fully-taxable for-profit ventures.

And NFL HQ ran at a loss a bunch of the time (go look at their 990s) so even if they weren't tax-exempt they wouldn't have paid taxes in the loss years and could use those losses to offset taxes in the non-loss years.

The rest of your post is on-point, though.

primetime · Mar 31, 2016

RecoveringCowboy said:
in theory ethical and legal should be the same

Piping hot liberalism! Get your piping hot liberalism!

RobertWeathers · Mar 31, 2016

I'd love to be tax exempt.

RecoveringCowboy · Mar 31, 2016

robertweathers said:
I'd love to be tax exempt.

Maybe the real reason the NFL took a pass on tax exemption last year, is so our comeback could not be they are tax cheats. They are still corrupt.

XLIX · Mar 31, 2016

RecoveringCowboy said:
Maybe the real reason the NFL took a pass on tax exemption last year, is so our comeback could not be they are tax cheats. They are still corrupt.

I think they were simply sick of the fact that they had to take an annual PR hit when they opened their books up to the general public. As mentioned above by Quantum Mechanic, the gain was minimal.

I have no doubt that now that the league office has to pay taxes, things will be structured such that the league office makes virtually no profit and, as such, will have to pay virtually no taxes.

Hercules Rockefeller · Mar 31, 2016

primetime said:
Piping hot liberalism! Get your piping hot liberalism!

I fail to see the problem with what you quoted, especially in light of the fact that laws are indeed made in large part in consideration of the mores and norms of the times--in other words, the ethics of the people. I didn't see that as a political statement, in the least.

Edit--I don't really understand the point of the OP, either. Just didn't find flaw with the part you quoted.

borg · Mar 31, 2016

US corporations typically have (some) Board of Directors members that are independent of the company….aka…outsiders who view their company from a different, less entrenched perspective…..UNLIKE the NFL whose "board" consists of 32 owners….without any real oversight besides bought and paid for Roger.

IllegalContact · Mar 31, 2016

Well given the nfl is American business this is not surprising

primetime · Mar 31, 2016

Hercules Rockefeller said:
I fail to see the problem with what you quoted, especially in light of the fact that laws are indeed made in large part in consideration of the mores and norms of the times--in other words, the ethics of the people. I didn't see that as a political statement, in the least.

Edit--I don't really understand the point of the OP, either. Just didn't find flaw with the part you quoted.

Law and "ethics" are not co-extensive and never can be, but it is the project of liberalism to make them so, or at least to appear to do so, because it serves the aims of the forces of liberalism (i.e. capital, which this post appears to be critiquing - I think. Like you, I was a bit confused.) My broader point is that law doesn't enforce ethics and was never supposed to, that's mysticism.

I don't mean this in the sense of liberalism vs. conservatism in the United States but in the broader Enlightment intellectual movement.

RayClay · Apr 1, 2016

If the NFL was a competitive American business it would fold in a year. It's a monopoly. Imagine if there were multiple football leagues competent and the CEO of one league started persecuting the best and most popular player, coach and team for some bizarre reason, so there could be lesser teams in the biggest money games.

I don't care if people hate the Patriots, any moron knows that excellence draws jealousy and hate sometimes and viewers and ticket buyers who tune in to root against the best still count as revenue.

The NFL is a business like a company like Microsoft is, which made good decisions in a competitive time, then consolidated so they could make stupid decisions like pushing Windows 8 and Vista when they had previous versions that worked better.

That's the type of business the NFL is. They are so popular and without competition, that a monkee could run the league, but they couldn't get a monkee, so they're persecuting their best teams, changing rules constantly for no reason and trying to play district attorney, following all the delinquents around instead of letting law enforcement deal with them.

It's the classic decadent monopoly which has lost touch with it's customers and their needs, just waiting for a little downturn so their corrupt model will fail despite money and monopoly power.

1960Pats · Apr 1, 2016

One of the worst decisions in our country's great judicial history was to allow corporations to be treated the same as citizens within the 14th amendment.

An amendment that was enacted to protect a small segment of the population (blacks) ended up being used to protect corporations instead. Of the 307 lawsuits that came from the 14th amendment during 1890-1910, 288 came from lawyers representing corporations and 19 came from blacks.

If you haven't seen this documentary before it's well worth the time.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Apr 1, 2016

primetime said:
Law and "ethics" are not co-extensive and never can be, but it is the project of liberalism to make them so, or at least to appear to do so, because it serves the aims of the forces of liberalism (i.e. capital, which this post appears to be critiquing - I think. Like you, I was a bit confused.) My broader point is that law doesn't enforce ethics and was never supposed to, that's mysticism.

I don't mean this in the sense of liberalism vs. conservatism in the United States but in the broader Enlightment intellectual movement.

billdog3484 · Apr 1, 2016

RecoveringCowboy said:
I'm not defending the NFL by saying they are not alone.

Until last year, they used their tax-exempt status from a law back in 1967? Billions of dollars in profits and numerous scandals later, the NFL decides they better not wait for Congress to address this.

In recent years, we have heard of US companies doing well, even making record profits yet they move plants to other countries. Likewise, we have seen stadiums evolve from wooden bleachers to theater-type seats that are increasingly crowded out by suites only companies can afford. Both will get comunities to subsides them with tax dollars if they move there. In both instances - it's how far can I go? Not what's the right thing? The NFL is different than most businesses.

Millions of fans follow the NFL, so it's harder for them to hide their actions. I don't have to regurgitate the scandals on Goodell's watch - it's a reflection of the NFL is not governed by the doing the right thing. Instead, Goodell is governed by the situation - the inconsistency is comical. Penalities are determined by whether or not a team is to get a break (Rice/Ravens), or a team to get (DeflateGate.) Other variables include the political climate over topics such as domestic violence, and potential lawsuits (BountyGate - we care about player's safety .)

Members here have pointed out Goodell may be the first NFL commissioner in a long time with no legal background, and it shows. Other than the ethics of doing the right thing, it's consistent - inconsistency gives you nightmares in a court of law. Wait a minute - in theory ethical and legal should be the same! Courts look for inconsistency as evidence of wrongdoing - being illegal, unethical.

Let's hope fans will keep a close eye on the NFL and hold their feet to the fire.

right, because if you owned an NFL team or a big company you would want to make less profits...sure

YOUGOTMOSSED · Apr 1, 2016

1960Pats said:
One of the worst decisions in our country's great judicial history was to allow corporations to be treated the same as citizens within the 14th amendment.

An amendment that was enacted to protect a small segment of the population (blacks) ended up being used to protect corporations instead. Of the 307 lawsuits that came from the 14th amendment during 1890-1910, 288 came from lawyers representing corporations and 19 came from blacks.

If you haven't seen this documentary before it's well worth the time.

Well, arguably the worst decision in the history of US jurisprudence was Marbury v. Madison when the SCOTUS granted itself the power to interpret the US constitution. It was pretty much all downhill from there. The ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2010 was just one symptom of this greater disease.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Apr 1, 2016

RecoveringCowboy said:
I'm not defending the NFL by saying they are not alone.

Until last year, they used their tax-exempt status from a law back in 1967? Billions of dollars in profits and numerous scandals later, the NFL decides they better not wait for Congress to address this.

In recent years, we have heard of US companies doing well, even making record profits yet they move plants to other countries. Likewise, we have seen stadiums evolve from wooden bleachers to theater-type seats that are increasingly crowded out by suites only companies can afford. Both will get comunities to subsides them with tax dollars if they move there. In both instances - it's how far can I go? Not what's the right thing? The NFL is different than most businesses.

Millions of fans follow the NFL, so it's harder for them to hide their actions. I don't have to regurgitate the scandals on Goodell's watch - it's a reflection of the NFL is not governed by the doing the right thing. Instead, Goodell is governed by the situation - the inconsistency is comical. Penalities are determined by whether or not a team is to get a break (Rice/Ravens), or a team to get (DeflateGate.) Other variables include the political climate over topics such as domestic violence, and potential lawsuits (BountyGate - we care about player's safety .)

Members here have pointed out Goodell may be the first NFL commissioner in a long time with no legal background, and it shows. Other than the ethics of doing the right thing, it's consistent - inconsistency gives you nightmares in a court of law. Wait a minute - in theory ethical and legal should be the same! Courts look for inconsistency as evidence of wrongdoing - being illegal, unethical.

Let's hope fans will keep a close eye on the NFL and hold their feet to the fire.

The NFL is actually a great example of the problem of monopolies/cartels and the government's inability and/or unwillingness to properly regulate them. However, that's a philosophical discussion that would go on much longer than most would care to read on a sports fan site.

Galeb · Apr 1, 2016

1960Pats said:
One of the worst decisions in our country's great judicial history was to allow corporations to be treated the same as citizens within the 14th amendment.

An amendment that was enacted to protect a small segment of the population (blacks) ended up being used to protect corporations instead. Of the 307 lawsuits that came from the 14th amendment during 1890-1910, 288 came from lawyers representing corporations and 19 came from blacks.

If you haven't seen this documentary before it's well worth the time.

Good link. For folks that don't want to watch the whole video, it might be worth watching from the 44 minute to the 47 minute mark.

sieglo · Apr 1, 2016

This thread is just horrible.

Galeb · Apr 1, 2016

1960Pats said:
If you haven't seen this documentary before it's well worth the time.

This is an exceptional video. I kind of avoided Michael Moore up till now, but some of the stuff he said in the video was spot on, and I found the idea of "the greed flaw" at the end very compelling.

The idea of companies patenting life or genes is particularly disturbing. As the narrator said, patenting genes is literally patenting the blueprints of life. This battle is just starting and will intensify exponentially as technology accelerates.

Thanks for the link.

The NFL mirrors American business in a bad way

RecoveringCowboy

In the Starting Line-Up

QuantumMechanic

Burn it all down!

primetime

Pro Bowl Player

RobertWeathers

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

RecoveringCowboy

In the Starting Line-Up

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player

Hercules Rockefeller

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

borg

Pro Bowl Player

IllegalContact

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

primetime

Pro Bowl Player

RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter

YOUGOTMOSSED

In the Starting Line-Up

billdog3484

PatsFans.com Supporter

YOUGOTMOSSED

In the Starting Line-Up

YOUGOTMOSSED

In the Starting Line-Up

Galeb

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

sieglo

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Galeb

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Similar threads