Rodney adjusts his contract [merged]

Re: Rodney Reduced - why?

dryheat44 said:

That would be poor management, unless BB feels that Rodney is no longer an asset to the defense.

Why would you offend one of the purported best players on the defense and training camp/locker room leader over a small sum of money that's not apparently needed elsewhere? Threatened him with being cut if he said no? I find that hard to believe. If Rodney doesn't get hurt vs. Tennessee, we're likely the defending champs again. It's obvious to anybody watching that the defense is much better with Rodney than without. I could see it if Rodney was making 5 million a year, but he's not.

There's something we're all missing here...and I'm guessing it has to do with a shuffling of money from point A to point B. Rodney could easily be retiring next year, but it could also be the first step towards an extension.

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This is precisely what I was trying to say, only I usually come across as Stuttering John compared to the great DH.

Thank you. :rocker:

Oswlek said:

I find it hard to believe that NE did the Milloy treatment on Harrison. Harrison is a major part of this team and he clearly has plenty left in the tank to justify the $2.7mm that he was scheduled to earn.

When NE approached Milloy, it because he was coming off of a season where he had less impact than Harrison had last year despite starting every game. Not only that, but Milloy was a "negative leader" who didn't have the positive pressence that Harrison has on the locker room. On top of all of that, NE was trying to drop Milloy down to $.3mm more than Harrison was scheduled to earn this year in a year where the cap was over 20% lower than it is now.

No, I can't see this as a "restructure or we don't have a place for you" deal. There is more to this story.

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I think the more to this story is likely the simple fact that Rodney is entering two backloaded years of a 6 year deal in which he was presumably envisioned only playing 2-3 or at most 4 years of. If you look at the salaries (including roster bonus) for the 30++ core leaders on this defense they are making $1.1M(Seau), $1.7M(Bruschi), $2.5M (Vrabel) $2M+(Harrison). And LB has historically been the higher paying of the two positions, particularly OLB. I think Colvin, though sub 30 still, is ripe for restructure at $4.6M all salary. But given his age they will likely extend him beyond 2008 as a means to pull him back into line with the what the rest of the group is making. Thomas will face a similar re-evaluation when they enter the last 2 years of his deal. This way they will then be able to look him in the eye and say, it is what it is. We did this with everyone, save Bruschi who was so cheaply extended we continually had to slap ourselves at that good fortune.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

Va_Pats_Fan said:

I don't think it had anything to do with cutting him vs not cutting him at all. If Rodney can't make the roster, do you think that the "extra" 700K was the determining factor? Nope. Its all in the dead $$$, which would remain the same as its based on the signing bonus, and not the scheduled salary.

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I DO think that $700K can be a determining factor in deciding whether or not to keep a player.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

PromisedLand said:

You're almost right. They haven't told Rodney they WON'T cut him, they told him if he didn't accept this restructure they WILL cut him. They would never promise a guy they won't cut him.

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The timing of the move makes me think that the Patriots DID indicate to Rodney that he won't be cut at this new salary (provided he can play at the level both expect). Otherwise the Patriots could have waited and seen how their secondary progresses in the preseason before deciding to cut him.

I acknowledge two counter arguments to this:

1. Bill may have learned from the Lawyer situation and have decided not to cut locker room leaders so close to the start of the season.

2. The Patriots may want to avoid the possibility of a $2.7M preseason injury.

On balance, however, it seems unlikely to me that Rodney would have made this decision NOW, without at least a qualified commitment from Bill not to cut him at this salary.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

solman said:

The timing of the move makes me think that the Patriots DID indicate to Rodney that he won't be cut at this new salary (provided he can play at the level both expect). Otherwise the Patriots could have waited and seen how their secondary progresses in the preseason before deciding to cut him.

I acknowledge two counter arguments to this:

1. Bill may have learned from the Lawyer situation and have decided not to cut locker room leaders so close to the start of the season.

2. The Patriots may want to avoid the possibility of a $2.7M preseason injury.

On balance, however, it seems unlikely to me that Rodney would have made this decision NOW, without at least a qualified commitment from Bill not to cut him at this salary.

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Will you take a look at the roster before you make such comments. Is their anyone close to giving the team what Rodney gives them even at last years performance?

Just answer that question before commenting that you think Rodney was even close to being cut.

Oswlek said:

Milloy was loved by a good amount of his teammates, Brady certainly amongst them, but not all. And the "negative leader" is a direct quote from BB's self-scouting that Holley put in his book.

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I was not aware of that...guess i need to read the book! I always had the impression (from other teamates) that he was a positive leader.

Oswlek said:

I agree. If my post implied anything different, I apologize. My main point was why would you take someone who appears to be tailor-made for the FS postion and bulk him up to be a SS?

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No you didn't imply anything different..i was just expanding on it

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

solman said:

The timing of the move makes me think that the Patriots DID indicate to Rodney that he won't be cut at this new salary (provided he can play at the level both expect). Otherwise the Patriots could have waited and seen how their secondary progresses in the preseason before deciding to cut him.

I acknowledge two counter arguments to this:

1. Bill may have learned from the Lawyer situation and have decided not to cut locker room leaders so close to the start of the season.

2. The Patriots may want to avoid the possibility of a $2.7M preseason injury.

On balance, however, it seems unlikely to me that Rodney would have made this decision NOW, without at least a qualified commitment from Bill not to cut him at this salary.

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What did he learn...that players get upset becuase their friend is gone, then get over it and win back to back superbowls?

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

PATSNUTme said:

That is so wrong. Why in the world would they even approach that with Rodney at this time? If you look at the roster, who could we put in there that is even close to a healthy Rodney, even at this stage of his carrer?

There could be something coming up with another player(s) not on the roster now, that the Patriots may have felt that they need the extra cap space. Maybe they thought they would have had signed Samuel to a long term contract that would have reduced the cap hit on him, now they don't think so.

Many reasons that could have brought this about. But, cutting Rodney for $700,000 would not be one of them. I think that this was agreed to a long time ago.

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Look at Len P's Tip Sheet. There are a good number of veteran safeties (Matt Bowen, Donovin Darius , Derrick Gibson Robert Griffith , Tebucky Jones Terrence Kiel , Sammy Knight , Mike Logan, Tony Parrish , Lance Schulters, Troy Vincent and Shaun Williams) available. If Rodney was released by the Patriots, I doubt that he would get as good as a deal (2 million salary and $200K in incentives) from another team when Donovin Darius is probably available at a cheaper price.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

solman said:

The timing of the move makes me think that the Patriots DID indicate to Rodney that he won't be cut at this new salary (provided he can play at the level both expect). Otherwise the Patriots could have waited and seen how their secondary progresses in the preseason before deciding to cut him.

I acknowledge two counter arguments to this:

1. Bill may have learned from the Lawyer situation and have decided not to cut locker room leaders so close to the start of the season.

2. The Patriots may want to avoid the possibility of a $2.7M preseason injury.

On balance, however, it seems unlikely to me that Rodney would have made this decision NOW, without at least a qualified commitment from Bill not to cut him at this salary.

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With the provisions you have added and I have boldfaced, we are basically saying the same thing. Perhaps the way you said it is the way they spun it to him, but to me it still means they didn't promise they wouldn't cut him.

Re: Rodney Reduced - why?

dryheat44 said:

That would be poor management, unless BB feels that Rodney is no longer an asset to the defense.

Why would you offend one of the purported best players on the defense and training camp/locker room leader over a small sum of money that's not apparently needed elsewhere? Threatened him with being cut if he said no? I find that hard to believe. If Rodney doesn't get hurt vs. Tennessee, we're likely the defending champs again. It's obvious to anybody watching that the defense is much better with Rodney than without. I could see it if Rodney was making 5 million a year, but he's not.

There's something we're all missing here...and I'm guessing it has to do with a shuffling of money from point A to point B. Rodney could easily be retiring next year, but it could also be the first step towards an extension.

Click to expand...

Ummmmmm, yeah DAT :yeahthat:

PATSNUTme said:

He is old, slow,and hits like a little girl. I wouldn't be a bit suprised if it comes down to either him or Rashad Baker making the team.

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I would not bet on RH hitting like a little girl this year. He may not be in his prime, but he's not at THIS spot yet. He'll be productive. As a leader, as a teammate.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

Miguel said:

Look at Len P's Tip Sheet. There are a good number of veteran safeties (Matt Bowen, Donovin Darius , Derrick Gibson Robert Griffith , Tebucky Jones Terrence Kiel , Sammy Knight , Mike Logan, Tony Parrish , Lance Schulters, Troy Vincent and Shaun Williams) available. If Rodney was released by the Patriots, I doubt that he would get as good as a deal (2 million salary and $200K in incentives) from another team when Donovin Darius is probably available at a cheaper price.

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Perhaps so but I believe DD has some serious physical issues as well, maybe worse than Rodney's before rehab. Most of the others are no prize and even in their prime were nowhere near as good as Harrison, excepting DD. Why would they be better pickups now, unless Harrison just can't play anymore, in which case the Pats would and should (sorry NUT) cut him. But that is not the case here.

Market value is determined by need. Were a team to lose their starter SS this summer in camp, a Rodney Harrison WOULD command a couple mill as the best vet available.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

solman said:

I DO think that $700K can be a determining factor in deciding whether or not to keep a player.

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Then why not get him to go to the vet min? The fact that they only asked for 700K is bewildering. BB and Pioli are business. If they wanted Rodney @ a lower salary, then go all the way.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

Are you guys being mean about Rodney in hopes that he reads this thread and gets pissed off, and has a stellar season to say " I'm not to old or wash-upped" etc, etc?

I would like to reach through this computer, and wring a few necks for some of the comments made about Rodney.. When he was playing last year, I thought he played awesome, and he is still the leader and heart of the secondary and still puts fear into receivers when they see him coming...

Amen brother

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

Va_Pats_Fan said:

Then why not get him to go to the vet min? The fact that they only asked for 700K is bewildering. BB and Pioli are business. If they wanted Rodney @ a lower salary, then go all the way.

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Because they assign values to a player and that was where they thought his value fell. Rodney is clearly not a vet minimum guy but they obviousy felt he was not a 2.7 million guy either.

The word is it wasn't a restructure where they pay him the same $ but change the way it is paid for cap purposes. It was a pay cut. And one that they didn't need him to take for cap reasons. It is consistent with what many NFL teams ask of veterans who they feel are overpaid.

And if you think they weren't going to cut him if he didn't agree, why exaclty did he agree? You think it was just out of the goodness of his heart?

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

AirForcePatFan said:

Are you guys being mean about Rodney in hopes that he reads this thread and gets pissed off, and has a stellar season to say " I'm not to old or wash-upped" etc, etc?

I would like to reach through this computer, and wring a few necks for some of the comments made about Rodney.. When he was playing last year, I thought he played awesome, and he is still the leader and heart of the secondary and still puts fear into receivers when they see him coming...

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Well, Rodney couldn't reach through a paper bag. They should just have signed Gary Coleman to play the position, because that little midget probably hits as hard as Harrison does now. I'd say that Rodney belongs in a flag football league, but he probably couldn't keep up with the defensive linemen in one of those leagues, never mind trying to keep up with the receivers.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

By now AirForce you must realize the purpose of dissing Rodney

Len P's take:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2927281

"Since the Patriots still have about $8.4 million in available cap funds, and more than sufficient money to sign their draft choices, the restructuring was not necessary to carve out more spending room. Instead, the move should be considered a reflection that Harrison is in the twilight of a celebrated career.

While still a key member of the New England defense, and projected as a starter again this season, Harrison, 34, has appeared in only 13 games over the past two seasons...."

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

Miguel said:

Look at Len P's Tip Sheet. There are a good number of veteran safeties (Matt Bowen, Donovin Darius , Derrick Gibson Robert Griffith , Tebucky Jones Terrence Kiel , Sammy Knight , Mike Logan, Tony Parrish , Lance Schulters, Troy Vincent and Shaun Williams) available. If Rodney was released by the Patriots, I doubt that he would get as good as a deal (2 million salary and $200K in incentives) from another team when Donovin Darius is probably available at a cheaper price.

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It would be foolish,IMO, for the Patriots to threaten Rodney with being cut or even suggest it to him. He is as good or better (much better in some cases) than any one of those guys. Plus he brings the leadership and the knowledge of the defense that none of those guys have or could be.

I'm tryng to look at this objectively and not as a big Rodney fan. I was a big Patriots fan before Rodney and I'll be a big Patriots fan after Rodney is done. I'm also a businessman and to me it really does not make very good business sense to risk alienating a valuable employee.

If they don't think he has it anymore, release him and get someone else. That would make sense. (hope that I didn't give PWP a heart attack)

EDIT: I'm totally wrong about what I just said. Felger just agreed with me.

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

PATSNUTme said:

EDIT: I'm totally wrong about what I just said. Felger just agreed with me.

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Ouch! That must hurt!