Rodney adjusts his contract [merged]

[dhamz]

We will probably never know. However, I have my stong doubts if if was a "take a cut or be cut" situation, implied or otherwise. My business sense tells me that you don't play with fire in this way.

Then why did he take the paycut? What was the motivation to give back an enormous sum of money?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Then why did he take the paycut? What was the motivation to give back an enormous sum of money?

Maybe a quid pro quo, later?









Bet no one thought I could speak french.

 

[mgteich]

My guess is that both parties knew when the contract was signed that Harrison wouldn't see the amounts in the last tow years (as it was with McGinist, Vrabel and Troy Brown). Harrison is just not worth $2.7M, not to the patriots, and not on the open market. Harrison settled the issue before it became a real issue.

 

[shakadave]

Re: Rodney adjusts his contract

Rodney is OLD. He has repeatedly gotten injured. He is doing this to prevent the Patriots from cutting him. Presumably, the Patriots have told him that in exchange for this adjustment he will NOT be cut.

I know that the very concept of cutting Rodney seems blasphemous to many fans here. Tough. This is the NFL, where teams which make sentimental decisions lose.

This analysis rings true to me. Also, Rodney has a year to show us we want to pay him $3m in 2008. Anyhow, the good news is, we seem to have him for 2007.

 

[Oswlek]

My guess is that both parties knew when the contract was signed that Harrison wouldn't see the amounts in the last tow years (as it was with McGinist, Vrabel and Troy Brown). Harrison is just not worth $2.7M, not to the patriots, and not on the open market. Harrison settled the issue before it became a real issue.

I think it is debatable whether Harrison would make $2.7mm on the open market, but he is most certainly worth that amount to NE.

Frankly, I have no idea why so many people hold that viewpoint. He was not going to get cut at $2.7 any sooner than he will be cut at $2mm. There is something else there. No one will convince me otherwise.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Based on his development and play last year, James Sanders has earned the starting position at SS. Having a Safety crew, purposely not counting Rodney, of Wilson and Sanders with Meriwether and Hawkins and then Chad Scott and Willie Andrews as a Safety corps is really pretty solid. One near pro bowler, and at least three competent players. Rodney is on the downside and everyone knows it, except the fans.

This is Rodney's transition to key reserve from starter status. And the pay to go with it. Fans did not think that Rodney had a replacement, but he does. Teh Pats coaches had to play sophomore Sanders nad he got blooded. The Fans were forced to confront that fact that Bruschi has a replacement, as Vrabel moved inside and took over his job, the year Bruschi recovered.

No Team is forever, other dynasties died because the starters got old. In the Pats case, the Team has consistently transitioned older players, and replaced them. And gotten younger while remaining strong.

The only starter older than 30 on the Offense is Stephen Neal who will turn 31. The only starters older than 30 on the Defense are Bruschi, Vrabel and maybe Harrison. Both Bruschi and Harrison have players groomed to take their places. Vrabel will turn 32, so he should have a couple more years as a starter.

In this respect Rodney joins the quality depth of ex-starter quality veterans, who maybe can't do it for 60 minutes for 16 games any longer, but are great players who can still produce in spurts, Guys like Scott, Hawkins, Junior, and maybe Tory and Vinny.

 

[BelichickFan]

This is Rodney's transition to key reserve from starter status.

I've been wrong before - quote often in fact - but I'd bet you anything that Harrison is the starter on opening day; barring injury of course.

 

[AdamJT13]

The clock is ticking since the CBA requires teams to send contract information to the Management Council within 2 days of the execution. The Management Council is then required to forward that information within another 2 business days. According to your theory we should hear something by the end of this week at the latest.

Let's say that nothing happens this week.

Why did the Pats and Rodney adjust Rodney's contract??

The timing thing isn't even a question, because Harrison's renegotiation actually happened two months ago.

 

[Miguel]

The timing thing isn't even a question, because Harrison's renegotiation actually happened two months ago.

Interesting.

Thanks for the info, Adam.

 

[Mike the Brit]

The timing thing isn't even a question, because Harrison's renegotiation actually happened two months ago.

Very interesting. Was that before the draft?

My wild speculation is that perhaps Rodney has a "gentleman's agreement" with the Krafts that he will stay with the team in some role after he retires at the end of the coming season and that this will allow him to recoup the money.

Like PatsNut, I can't see the sense in the long term for the team in putting one of its most respected players under pressure to give up a relatively small amount of money unless that money is absolutely needed to keep the team under the cap. If the Patriots are seen as trying to gouge out every last dime from their players (and that has NOT been their practice in the past) then the players themselves will be even less inclined to step back a few inches in negotiations in order to stay with the team. That is being (as we say in England) "penny wise, pound foolish".

 

[fgssand]

The timing thing isn't even a question, because Harrison's renegotiation actually happened two months ago.

WOW...two months, so much for speculating any tie in to Samuel (which never made sense to me anyway).

Thanks Adam...

 

[PATSNUTme]

Based on his development and play last year, James Sanders has earned the starting position at SS. Having a Safety crew, purposely not counting Rodney, of Wilson and Sanders with Meriwether and Hawkins and then Chad Scott and Willie Andrews as a Safety corps is really pretty solid. One near pro bowler, and at least three competent players. Rodney is on the downside and everyone knows it, except the fans.

This is Rodney's transition to key reserve from starter status. And the pay to go with it. Fans did not think that Rodney had a replacement, but he does. Teh Pats coaches had to play sophomore Sanders nad he got blooded. The Fans were forced to confront that fact that Bruschi has a replacement, as Vrabel moved inside and took over his job, the year Bruschi recovered.

No Team is forever, other dynasties died because the starters got old. In the Pats case, the Team has consistently transitioned older players, and replaced them. And gotten younger while remaining strong.

The only starter older than 30 on the Offense is Stephen Neal who will turn 31. The only starters older than 30 on the Defense are Bruschi, Vrabel and maybe Harrison. Both Bruschi and Harrison have players groomed to take their places. Vrabel will turn 32, so he should have a couple more years as a starter.

In this respect Rodney joins the quality depth of ex-starter quality veterans, who maybe can't do it for 60 minutes for 16 games any longer, but are great players who can still produce in spurts, Guys like Scott, Hawkins, Junior, and maybe Tory and Vinny.

You must have been looking at a different Janmes Sanders than I was. He was simply adequate mostof the time and a liability some of the time.

So, I think you have the roles reversed. A healthy Rodney a starter- Sanders as an adequate reserve. If what you are saying is correct then why did Rodney get the starting job as soon as he came back for Jax and Tenn?

 

[AdamJT13]

Very interesting. Was that before the draft?

After the draft -- May 9.

 

[Miguel]

Like PatsNut, I can't see the sense in the long term for the team in putting one of its most respected players under pressure to give up a relatively small amount of money unless that money is absolutely needed to keep the team under the cap. If the Patriots are seen as trying to gouge out every last dime from their players (and that has NOT been their practice in the past) then the players themselves will be even less inclined to step back a few inches in negotiations in order to stay with the team. That is being (as we say in England) "penny wise, pound foolish".

Can we all agree that either the Pats or Harrison initiated the talks???

If the Patriots initiated the talks, what was their motivation besides getting Harrison to agree to a lower cap number??

If Harrison inititated the talks, what was his motivation besides ensuring that he remained a Patriot??

You say "gouging out every last dime from ther players". I say ensuring that they do not overpay their players. That has been the Patriots practice.

Can someone please make the case that Harrison deserved a $600,000 increase from his 2006 salary???

 

[PatsSteve1]

You must have been looking at a different Janmes Sanders than I was. He was simply adequate mostof the time and a liability some of the time.

* He's OK in run support but he's lost in coverage.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Can we all agree that either the Pats or Harrison initiated the talks??


Sounds right to me

If the Patriots initiated the talks, what was their motivation besides getting Harrison to agree to a lower cap number??

Obviously, the Patriots wanted a lower cap number – but that is something that we can presume they always want. The real question is “why did they want it particularly badly at that particular time?” and “why did they choose Rodney Harrison as the vehicle for arriving at it?”

If Harrison inititated the talks, what was his motivation besides ensuring that he remained a Patriot??

Moot

You say "gouging out every last dime from ther players". I say ensuring that they do not overpay their players. That has been the Patriots practice.

Here’s the heart of things for me.

My Pats transactions database can’t begin to compare with yours, but it’s my recollection that the Patriots have been prepared to be generous to players, even at the cost of some cap space, where they’ve felt that that was the right thing to do (not demanding back money from injured players, for example).

Have they gone to players and demanded that they re-negotiate their contracts or be cut? My memory is that they’ve done this only rarely, the main cases being ones where the final years of the contract had hugely escalated “dummy years” (Willie McGinest). Moreover, I think that in all cases they’ve been close to the cap limit, so there could be no argument that they are being “cheap” – the money was needed to retain other players.

What’s more, that is, in my view, good business practice. What’s the point of having a contract if it isn’t going to be honoured? If the team goes back to a player and demands a re-negotiation whenever he performs below expectations, surely it’s inviting players to hold out whenever they feel that they have outperformed their contract. That’s not a good way to do business – the team needs stability and a minimum of distractions from salary issues.

It seems to me implausible too to think that the Patriots were really thinking of cutting Harrison.

First, because he played astonishingly well when he came back last season. If the Patriots thought it was smart to exploit a player’s weak bargaining position (which I don’t think that they do) then surely they should have done so when he was recovering from injuries that might easily have ended his career.

And even if they are now thinking that Rodney isn’t a lock to make the 53 if healthy, it’s quite out of character to start making decisions so early in the off season. One of the continuing features of the Belichick-Pioli regime is to want a lot of competition coming into training camp and to keep an open mind about who does what until they see how that plays out.

Can someone please make the case that Harrison deserved a $600,000 increase from his 2006 salary???

It’s quite different to re-negotiate his salary upward and to pay him the increase that was agreed and expected when the contract was signed.

I find the Harrison re-negotiation very mysterious and I can only speculate that there is some behind-the-scenes agreement to compensate him in some other way. It's not as though Harrison is being paid so much that he couldn't care less about $700,000 (*cough Brady *cough).

 

[dryheat44]

Can someone please make the case that Harrison deserved a $600,000 increase from his 2006 salary???

To quote Will Munny, Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

I don't think guys like Leonard Davis, Daniel Graham, and Derrick Dockery deserve their new contracts. And they were free agents. Rodney's working off a deal already agreed upon.

As the Salary Cap goes up, I think the dollars you spend on salaries has to go up with it, otherwise you're at a disadvantage. By this I mean three years ago, Belichick probably had a number for a number one cornerback. Now with so much more cap space, that number ought to go up proportionately, or other teams are going to steal every free agent on the market, and you hurt your chance of re-signing your own impending FAs. What else are you going to spend it on?

To greatly oversimplify, let's pretend the cap is $100. In BBs "Value" maybe:

Franchise QB: 10
Starting RB: 4
3rd Down RB: 2
Left Tackle: 3
Other starting OL: 10
#1 WR: 4
#2 WR: 2
Other WRs: 4
Starting TE: 3
Other offensive backups: 4
Starting DL: 17
Starting LB: 13
Starting S: 4
#1 CB: 3
Other CBs: 7
Reserve DL and LBs: 4
Reserve DBs: 3
STers: 3

Now the cap goes up to 130. Does it make sense to keep players' values the same? Even though in a real-dollar system they'd have the same value. However, assuming Bob Kraft spends to the cap, the logical thing to do is to proportionately up your value chart. In other words, tying value to market conditions.

It makes no sense to me why you start cutting someone's pay when you have a larger cap and no apparent need to clear space.

 

[37Harrison]

It's obvious why Rodney restuctured and why it was the Pats that came to him.

With everyone picking the Pats to win the SB, the Pats needed to give Rodney a reason to play the "no respect" card. DUH!

Now he can play the "no respect" card without laughing.

 

[Oswlek]

I completely agree with Mike and Dryheat's last two posts.

 

[dhamz]

I find the Harrison re-negotiation very mysterious and I can only speculate that there is some behind-the-scenes agreement to compensate him in some other way. It's not as though Harrison is being paid so much that he couldn't care less about $700,000 (*cough Brady *cough).

So your theory is that the Patriots made a clandestine move 2 months ago in order to free up 700k that everyone can clearly see they did not need at the time and still have not used? And you are aware what you are suggesting a "behind-the-scenes agreement to compensate him in some other way" is a violation of the salary cap?

Is that more logical than the idea that they asked a veteran they felt was opverpaid for a give back? That is a very standard NFL practice the BB-SP administration has used often over the years with players like Ted Johnson, Willie, Lawyer, etc.