NFL Appeal oral arguments thread

JMC00 said:

Who knows but I will say if they rule to overturn Berman and then cite the evidence as to why they did then I think it will absolutely get heard. They are not there to judge whether they think Brady did it. They are there to rule on Berman's decision which his reasons were

-Inadequate notice
-Brady was denied the opportunity to examine the co-lead investigator
-****dell improperly denied Brady equal access to investigative files


Maybe the notice gets overturned but if the other two do then i'm definitely calling bias.. But even if one of those reasons is upheld Brady wins..

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Do you seriously think that experienced appellate judges do not understand the grounds of an appeal and will rule on something you know is not in their purview? Seriously?

All of these issues are part of the case, not just the questions reporters tweet about.

PatsFansSince74 better get ready for the 2,000 word diatribe that Joker is surely working on.

Ivan said:

Disagree completely, the New York papers were more honest than the brief the NFL filed with the appeals court. Clement lied to the court and appears to be getting away with it.

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Why does he appear to be getting away with it?

This whole process really feels like they are working from an assumption that Brady is guilty and they are just arguing to get him "acquitted" on a technicality. I hope that is not the perception if Brady is cleared.

I almost hope this ends up back in front of a neutral arbitrator - where a real defense can be made and a real determination can be made that nothing happened - and M&J testify under oath so the public can see it for themselves.

Or - it turns out Brady and those guys really are guilty of something - and at least if that's the case we will know for sure.

VectorPrime said:

PatsFansSince74 better get ready for the 2,000 word diatribe that Joker is surely working on.

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i'm trembling in my boots...wait, i'm wearing sneakers...

but Joker might save the diatribe for Kessler...who has now been called out by several of these court observers who thought this was a slam dunk for Brady as unprepared and worse...

So it was the text messages that led Judge Chin to mention the "Compelling if not overwhelming" line.

sb1 said:

So it was the text messages that led Judge Chin to mention the "Compelling if not overwhelming" line.

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I question the judge's logic if he goes by the text messages to make that claim.

And Kessler responded by basically saying they are working from a presumption of guilt. I actually think that wasn't a bad way to counter it.

I hope this goes Brady's way because it should go his way but if it does not I am personally satisfied with how Brady has fought this seemingly losing battle from the on set. If not for Goodell's ignorance and arrogance this battle would have been over long ago resulting in Brady missing at least 1 game and entering some sort of plea deal which, fair or not, would have emboldened the "cheater" chanting. Instead Brady had a career year proving that 0.2 psi had nothing to do with his past accomplishments nor with Patriot fumble rates and basically debunking all of the horseshit analyses that spawned from a bathroom trip.

Now the appeal is in the hands of 3 judges who, in my mind, have to recognize that although this case is supposedly judging a CBA process it will be remembered for its origination from an accusation of deflation in which the science (DNA) of the case indicate nothing happened and with certainty had nothing to do with performance. They also know that this case will continue to be scrutinized and that more facts/records/transcripts may be released via a defamation lawsuit thickening the story to which their decision will be tied to. IOW, they could be remembered as the 3 judges that allowed an innocent man to be punished with a process which was obviously abused by a megalomaniac. I'm sure they will weigh everything including fairness when making their decision.

I know and have met a few DA's, Judges etc in my life and none would let their fanhood get in the middle of a decision. They, those who I know, would only make a decision they could logically defend and would not compromise their integrity for the sake of their beloved football team. That would possibly be committing political/professional suicide. IMO

Brady should win this and in my worthless ranting opinion he already has.

Ivan said:

Disagree completely, the New York papers were more honest than the brief the NFL filed with the appeals court. Clement lied to the court and appears to be getting away with it.

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Maybe he is the "Lebron James" of lawyers. Gets away with everything and gets all the calls.

sb1 said:

This whole process really feels like they are working from an assumption that Brady is guilty and they are just arguing to get him "acquitted" on a technicality. I hope that is not the perception if Brady is cleared.

I almost hope this ends up back in front of a neutral arbitrator - where a real defense can be made and a real determination can be made that nothing happened - and M&J testify under oath so the public can see it for themselves.

Or - it turns out Brady and those guys really are guilty of something - and at least if that's the case we will know for sure.

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If the deflating of footballs has been an actual court case TB would have been acquitted in about 15 minutes

Brady's team and Berman worked off the assumption of guilt which is unfortunate because the evidence of actual guilt is completely absent. I fear that it is this perception that the appelate judges have without knowing the facts and are taking to the next level. With that, potentially seeing that the NFL was right on all levels to do what it did.

Kessler reminds the court about the items Berman left open if they remand.

PatsFanSince74 said:

I've lived in Manhattan for 20 years and am active in political and other circles. What is your history with the city?

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Practiced law there for about as long as you've lived there. I have stories about my experience with the judiciary that no one would believe . . . except other NY lawyers.

I think this goes 2-1 either way and Judge Parker is the deciding vote.

All in all reading this I get the impression Kessler didn't blasted in court nearly as much as people said he did. Tough questions for sure though.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Maybe he is the "Lebron James" of lawyers. Gets away with everything and gets all the calls.

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I think that's why they hired him, what I really don't understand is that any lawyer can literally lie to an appeals court and get away with it. I understand that lawyers have to represent their client to the best of their ability even if they know their client is guilty, that's the way the system is set up, and they have the leeway to present a dishonest case to a jury. I didn't however realize a lawyer could present outright lies to an appeals court regarding recorded testimony from an arbitrated hearing. Clement outright lied to CA2 and is apparently getting away with it.

Ivan said:

I think that's why they hired him, what I really don't understand is that any lawyer can literally lie to an appeals court and get away with it. I understand that lawyers have to represent their client to the best of their ability even if they know their client is guilty, that's the way the system is set up, and they have the leeway to present a dishonest case to a jury. I didn't however realize a lawyer could present outright lies to an appeals court regarding recorded testimony from an arbitrated hearing. Clement outright lied to CA2 and is apparently getting away with it.

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If he has the judges on his side, who do you think is going to hold him accountable for misrepresenting the record to the court?

The press? Don't make me laugh.

I think Chin is the swing vote.

sb1 said:

All in all reading this I get the impression Kessler didn't blasted in court nearly as much as people said he did. Tough questions for sure though.

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Remember the tough questioning Judge Berman threw at both parties?

I put this in the same category.