Idle thoughts - Is it ever going to stop.......:mad:

This will have to be an abbreviated version. My charger died and I just have until the battery dies on this very old laptop. So lets get started.

1. There is much more to dislike than like to this game. I haven't read any posts, but so far no one on TV is taking about a broken leg for Edelman. More like a kind of injury that Bryant had, and if that's the truth, he would be back by the playoffs. For me, I would have rather have lost the game if it meant we would have gotten out of there healthy.

2. Sheard was back, yet our pass rush really wasn't as good as it has been all year. There were a couple of good individual efforts by Jones and Ninko, but there wasn't nearly the constant pressure we've come to expect. Manning enjoyed much more comfortably time than Brady.... even on some blitzes

3. This was Devin McCourty's worst game of the season. He did his best Brandon Merriweather imitation on the Beckham TD, and he didn't to a great job when he was in coverage on some Giant TE's.

4. He threw for over 330 yds, and added 2 more TD passes, but I think this might have been Brady's worst game of the season as well. That pick on the GL was all on Brady. He had Lafell open and threw it behind him. An accurate pass would have been an easy TD. But that wasn't the only passes he missed.

We had a number of WR's who were open deep that Brady missed or didn't maximize the situation. A better throw and Lafell would have had a TD rather than just a catch off a deflection. On the pass that should have ended the game, he had Lafell or Dobson (I'm not sure which) open by about 3 strides.

I'm not the only one who wasn't fully happy with Tom's effort tonight. If you watch his presser, you could tell Tom wasn't too happy with himself either. Disclaimer - saying Tom had a bad night is relative to what we've seen from him this season, and not to the rest of the league. By anyone else's comparison, Tom had a decent to good game. My complaint is that it wasn't what we've come to expect....... So I guess I've joined the spoiled nation.

5. This defense really misses Jamie Collins. Freeney isn't the answer out there. Way too often he was very late getting into coverage on TE's and RBs in the passing game. We will see an immediate uptick in the defense when Collins gets back.

6. Well since I'm on a roll, let me include LaGarrett Blount. He had 66 hard earned yards, and there wasn't much in the way of big holes on the LOS, but too often he wasn't falling forward for that extra 2 yards. Bottom line, the 80 yards the Pats managed in the rushing game, was a far cry from the over 200 the Giants gave up the week before.

7. The OL could be added to this rant of negativity, but they have to be given a pass. Christ Stork should be given a medal for playing OT for the first time since HS. It wasn't always perfect, but the effort was there. I assume if they were forced to keep playing, it would get better over time.....but I hope we don't have to wait until it happens. The DL's we face over the next 2 week will be MUCH better.

We need Volmer and Cannon back, badly. Too often Gronk was forced to stay in and block, on downs he needed to be out in the pattern. When his isn't in the pattern, there are 2 extra coverage men who are available to cover other receivers.

David Andrews either had an off night, or he was exposed for his physical limitations tonight, and his holding call cost us 7 points. BTW, imho, it wasn't a hold.....it was a TACKLE.

8. James White - All week long we kept hearing what a great week of practice White had, but when we get to the game he was pretty much invisible. I caught a few plays when he had to pass block, and while he was willing, he was often getting pushed back in Brady's face.

OK I can't go on, I'm only getting myself depressed, we DID win the game. Here are some positive notes

9. Malcolm Butler IS a beast. He continues to get better every week. Take away the yards that McCourty allowed, one of the best WR's in the game was held to under 35 yds. That's a HUGE effort, topped off by his save in the end zone. I also though Ryan and Coleman did pretty well. There were completions of course, but for the most part coverage was tight and Eli threw some beautiful passes against them.

9. The DL did a decent job on the run, but didn't provide much push up the middle tonight.

10. Danny Amendola, Gotskowski and Gronk - need I say more.

11. Special teams continue to be superb and we didn't lose anymore offensive lineman

General stuff

12. I think I can see a continual pattern on how teams are going to attack the Pats defense. Eli took a page out of the Joe Flaco book of chuck it downfield and let your receiver fight for the ball or hope for the flag. It was pretty successful, likely will be copied. The fact is the Pats have vertically challenged QB's and teams with big wide outs are going to test them this way, and hope for the best. If the league isn't careful that is what the passing game will devolve to. We see this kind of play more and more. QB's don't care whether their receivers are covered or not, the rules are rewarding teams who throw into good single coverage with the likelihood that if the big receiver doesn't come down with it they will get a flag.

13. Giant's fans are going to ***** long and hard about the officiating this game, yet they will ignore the fact that Pats were penalized for 97 yds in penalties while they only were penalized for 49. Most of their 2nd half points came directly from 3 PI calls in the 3rd quarter. 2 of which were more than marginal. Also the call on the Beckham play was the right one.

OK I have more, but my juice is almost gone. the batteries on these old laptops don't last long. So feel free to fill in with some more thought and topics. I know there were an awful lot of interesting game this week around the league. Meanwhile let's hope we start to see some players coming back and we get good news on Julian

Why didn't your phone die earlier. Lol.

We know what happened with Edelman. Broken foot exactly like Dez's, out 6-8 weeks. Divisional round would be in 9 weeks so there's time.

patfanken said:

That pick on the GL was all on Brady. He had Lafell open and threw it behind him.

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That was an odd play. Lafell drifted after his cut, which allowed the DB to undercut him. It looked, at first, as if LaFell was supposed to sit down. Had he done that, the ball would have been a perfect throw. Had he been supposed to cut hard, the throw would be behind him, but his route would have been a problem even with a perfect throw.

I don't know if we'll ever know for sure who blew that play, because Brady never blames his receivers, so we can't take his word for it.

I'm pretty happy that the pats went into a hostile stadium, played a shell of a game despite losing Edelman and won on a gw field goal. Honestly the only thing that in really saw Andrews mess up was that Blount plaything obviously ended up being huge, but how about we appreciate the win rather than have a bunch of whiney threads about how terrible the pats played

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I'm not sure how you can think Coleman looked good? BB would disagree as Melvin seemed to replace him in second half.

And you're right that this game showed how QBs will attack Pats. But I think it's less Jump Ball Joe and more find whoever the nickel back is covering and throw directly to him without thinking twice. Same as Rodgers last year. In retrospect that Daryl Robertson and Tarrel Brown injuries were big.

patfanken said:

4. He threw for over 330 yds, and added 2 more TD passes, but I think this might have been Brady's worst game of the season as well. That pick on the GL was all on Brady. He had Lafell open and threw it behind him. An accurate pass would have been an easy TD. But that wasn't the only passes he missed.

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patfanken said:

7. The OL could be added to this rant of negativity, but they have to be given a pass. Christ Stork should be given a medal for playing OT for the first time since HS. It wasn't always perfect, but the effort was there. I assume if they were forced to keep playing, it would get better over time.....but I hope we don't have to wait until it happens. The DL's we face over the next 2 week will be MUCH better.

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Ken you of all people should be able to see the connection between those two points. Did Brady play lights out ? No, but the OL gave him hardly any time at all on passing plays and wasn't able to deliver in the running game. Add in the Edelman injury and suddenly the Giants had a lot of bodies available to cover or generate pressure.

I hope Vollmer and Jackson are back against the Bills otherwise our offensive troubles will continue. Can't expect to win against Buffalo and Denver if we regularly continue to keep two TEs in for blocking. It all starts in the trenches and right now we are very weak there.

Minus one play, Butler owned ODB Jr. And even then, McCourty deserves his fair shame of the blame on that one.

Manning was getting rid of the ball quick. Not much our pass rush can do there. I actually thought replacing Melvin for Coleman at HT helped shore up the secondary.

I honestly wished we could play the Giants more. That would be one hell of a rivalry. All the games are always hard fought ones. Seems to always come down to the catches that WEREN'T made. (Asante, Welker, ODB Jr and the Collins droped INT today) I have a lot of respect for Tom Coughlin. An underrated coach in my eyes.

I'll say this, it doesn't show on the stat sheet, but our interior Dline play has been in my eyes outstanding. Hicks stood out to me today, Malcom Brown improving each and every week, and Easley is an absolute force out there. Easley burst and the way he shoots gaps is incredible to watch. I feel those 3, in particular Easley and Brown are absolute steals.

Amendola just seems to make a key play/s each and every week. His punt return gave this team a spark we so desperately needed, esp seeing how flat our offense went once Edelman went down, and the game winning drive he was money. He's not as electrifying as Edelman is, but he's just as money. I'm glad he's on our team, and proving everyone who wanted to run him out of town, and were calling him soft, saying he's made of glass, I'm glad he's shutting up those critics.

And lastly, we so miss Collins. With all of the stars we have on defemse, he might be the best one..

And one more thing. Give Logan Ryan some credit. He's having an outstanding year.

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant as we have come to expect..

If there were concerns about Butler being a #1 CB those fears are allayed, he played with the big boys last night and did well.. with the exception of one play.

Collins is a huge loss, and without him Hightower is almost jag... he seemed late on a lot of plays last night. Freeney is not a good answer.

Once again a player who was invaluable to this team struggles with another team.. see Shane Vereen, the Pats allowed him to play to his strengths..

Difficult to criticize Brady, even though the last two games were not his best, but he did engineer that last drive.. over 200 yards passing the 4th quarter, will take that any day. He did seem off though..

The O Line has to get healthier, Brady cannot become some sort of rag doll.. the run game broke down also.

Gostowski makes all ask Adam who?? Talk about automatic..

Remember all the discussion about getting rid of Amendola last year??

Meanwhile Peyton is pooping the bed.. and Brandon Browner is about to be given his walking papers in NOLA...

1: It's a given that teams suffer injuries, sometimes catastrophic ones. Patriots are having more then their fair share of injuries to key players. Managing a teams injuries is just as key as other aspects of the game and the Patriots are one of the best. Losing Edelman hurts but we are 9-0, so we have a little breathing room to make the playoffs. Losing Edelman now still gives us a chance to have him back for the playoffs. It's possible that we could have a healthy, rested Edelman for the playoffs if his recovery goes really well. Having a perfect season or first seed might be in jeporady but making the playoffs is the primary objective.

2: Other then McCourty's big mistake. I thought the defense competed well. This game has more of those game changing plays then most. Beckams TD, Gronks TD, Edelman's injury, Amendola's kick return, Brady's goal line int, Butler's kocking the football out of Beckams hand's to save a sure TD, the Giants dropping the sure int on the last Patriots drive and Ghost's game winning FG.

3: By Brady's standards this year, this wasn't his best game but still one of his better efforts against a Giants defense in awhile. The previous 3 games against the Giants which they lost, the Patriots scored 14, 20, 17

4: Blount ran hard but it seems to me this season too often he doesn't fall forward to get that extra yard or two. I see Blount upright while multiple defenders try to take him to the ground ( which they never seem to do) driving him backwards until the whistle blows to stop the play. I seem to recall a complaint on the forum in previous years that Blount was running too upright.

5: That was a clear penalty on Andrews. He tackled the guy by the legs to stop him from possibly bringing the runner down in the backfield.

6: I too was surprised that White was such a non factor. Maybe they are not as confident in his pass blocking as I thought.

7: I thought Butler and the other CB's competed well except for Rashaan Melvin who made me cringe when he was out there.

8. This was the only time this season I yelled at my TV. On Butler's phantom PI, I won't repeat what I said but it wasn't PG rated. Gronk gets mauled running down the field and no call but Butler breathes on Beckam and gets a PI. On the other hand I thought we caught a break when Amendola was running the punt return back. I thought that we could have been called for blocking in the back as he was running down the sideline. I was glad they decided not to nitpick that one. The end of the game with the onside kick with the Giants tossing and fumbling the ball on purpose was wild. The Patriots played it well but I thought a penalty on the Giants could have been called. Thanks to replay they reversed the Beckham TD.

9: There is a bad Eli and a good Eli. The good Eli showed up tonight. He made some nice throws and his receivers made some nice catches.

10: I thought Chandler would be a huge weapon for us this season but I was wrong. The dropped ball when he was wide open has been that kind of season for Chandler. Makes some good plays and then screws up other ones. Don't think they have called too many plays where Chandler was the prime target this season. He is only targeted once or twice a game.

11: I think once we get Volmer and Cannon back, we will be okay. Right now we are giving up some offense in favor of more protection with the TE's. Losing Edelman really hurts. They were even playing Dobson during the game. With Amendola taking Edelman's position, it looks like there is a role for another WR to step-up. Maybe Dobson can redeem himself.

Without looking it up, I think few opponents have done better against the Giants this season. Most of their losses are games that supposedly they "should" have won but lost right at the end.

Deus Irae said:

That was an odd play. Lafell drifted after his cut, which allowed the DB to undercut him. It looked, at first, as if LaFell was supposed to sit down. Had he done that, the ball would have been a perfect throw. Had he been supposed to cut hard, the throw would be behind him, but his route would have been a problem even with a perfect throw.

I don't know if we'll ever know for sure who blew that play, because Brady never blames his receivers, so we can't take his word for it.

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That was how I read it. Brady couldn't have thrown to where LaFell was because there was a LB in the inside zone blocking that throwing lane. I would think LaFell was supposed to sit down there. That said, Brady said it was on him, and during the NBC highlights show, Rodney said that Tom threw it too late; which may be a case of him knowing the play and providing insight or simply guessing like the rest of us, but getting paid to do so.

patfanken said:

4. [Brady] threw for over 330 yds, and added 2 more TD passes, but I think this might have been Brady's worst game of the season as well. That pick on the GL was all on Brady. He had Lafell open and threw it behind him. An accurate pass would have been an easy TD. But that wasn't the only passes he missed.

We had a number of WR's who were open deep that Brady missed or didn't maximize the situation. A better throw and Lafell would have had a TD rather than just a catch off a deflection. On the pass that should have ended the game, he had Lafell or Dobson (I'm not sure which) open by about 3 strides.

6. Well since I'm on a roll, let me include LaGarrett Blount. He had 66 hard earned yards, and there wasn't much in the way of big holes on the LOS, but too often he wasn't falling forward for that extra 2 yards. Bottom line, the 80 yards the Pats managed in the rushing game, was a far cry from the over 200 the Giants gave up the week before.

12. I think I can see a continual pattern on how teams are going to attack the Pats defense. Eli took a page out of the Joe Flaco book of chuck it downfield and let your receiver fight for the ball or hope for the flag. It was pretty successful, likely will be copied. The fact is the Pats have vertically challenged QB's and teams with big wide outs are going to test them this way, and hope for the best. If the league isn't careful that is what the passing game will devolve to. We see this kind of play more and more. QB's don't care whether their receivers are covered or not, the rules are rewarding teams who throw into good single coverage with the likelihood that if the big receiver doesn't come down with it they will get a flag.

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Like someone else said, Brady had pressure all night. He stood in there though and mostly threw off his front foot, but it's hard to keep good mechanics when you're getting knocked down mid-throw. I'll take it, aside from the bad decision near the goal line and the fumble that Stork recovered, when he should have been covering-up the ball.

Blount is generally not running with his pads as low as he did last year, but that might be circumstantial. This was his running style previously, although it's better than it was when the Pats first got him. It seems that once he gets going, he lowers his pad level, but when he's picking a hole, he runs upright and doesn't lean forward as well. Thus, when the line isn't opening-up big holes, he often doesn't do a good job of getting what little is available. This isn't a consistent problem, as sometimes the play is so blown-up that he realizes that there's nothing there and gets a yard or back to the LOS when things could have been worse.

Your reading too much into the PI calls. There was one ref who called the game different from the others. The field judge, who is positioned downfield on the right sideline, was calling defensive penalties more than the other officials. His call on Chung looked suspect, and his call on Butler was flat-out wrong. He also won an argument with the back judge on the PI against LaFell in the end zone. (It was the right call, and the back judge was in perfect position to see it, but didn't and then rolled his eyes during the officials' conference, so perhaps the FJ has a bit of a reputation. )

The one trend that bothers me in the way officials call PI is that if a defender turns around, they can all but maul the receiver, but will call PI if they breath heavy on the receiver when they are playing the man in trail position, waiting to knock the ball away once the receiver touches it. The NFL offiicals guidance has become so heavily relied-on in this instance that they all but forget the essence of the actual PI rule (contact before the ball arrives).

Great post as always ken.
I want share my quick thoughts:

- Malcolm Butler played a huge game. I mean, huge. He was absolutely a factor.

- Dion, we miss you.

- Jamie, we miss you.

- Amendola is a game-changer. One of the most underrated player we have.

- Gost. Please don't make comparison with AV. Two great kickers. Period. There isn't a winner.

9-0. LEGGO!!

pencilneckgeek said:

The one trend that bothers me in the way officials call PI is that if a defender turns around, they can all but maul the receiver, but will call PI if they breath heavy on the receiver when they are playing the man in trail position, waiting to knock the ball away once the receiver touches it. The NFL offiicals guidance has become so heavily relied-on in this instance that they all but forget the essence of the actual PI rule (contact before the ball arrives).

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You're absolutely right, and until/unless it changes, that absolutely has to be a coaching point of emphasis. As you say, if the cornerback turns his head around, it pretty much doesn't matter what the hell they do.

Personally I'll take the win. Edelman will fight to be back for the playoffs and hopefully well rested and ready to compete.

This team is facing huge adversity, but found a way to win. That's the kind if gutsy team I want. The guys that never believe they are done. Down by 10 in the 4th, doesn't matter, they've already overcome that on the biggest stage. This team has grit. The nice thing is we should start to get healthy again over the next few weeks.

The Bills are going to be a challenge for sure, but I think we have the defensive ponies to shut them down.

The Broncos have no offense...so I'm chalking that up as a win.

Then we should be getting our key players back...getting us primed for another huge playoff run. I'm stoked about this team and how well they are doing despite all the adversity.

AzorianPats said:

I honestly wished we could play the Giants more. That would be one hell of a rivalry. All the games are always hard fought ones. Seems to always come down to the catches that WEREN'T made. (Asante, Welker, ODB Jr and the Collins droped INT today) I have a lot of respect for Tom Coughlin. An underrated coach in my eyes.

Amendola just seems to make a key play/s each and every week. His punt return gave this team a spark we so desperately needed, esp seeing how flat our offense went once Edelman went down, and the game winning drive he was money. He's not as electrifying as Edelman is, but he's just as money. I'm glad he's on our team, and proving everyone who wanted to run him out of town, and were calling him soft, saying he's made of glass, I'm glad he's shutting up those critics.

And lastly, we so miss Collins. With all of the stars we have on defemse, he might be the best one..

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While playing the Giants would be a great rivalry, it wouldn't be good for my heart.

I'm a huge Amendola fan-that 4th and 10 on the final drive was clutch.

The defense hasn't been the same w/o Collins the last 2 weeks. Hope he is back for the Bills game. Rex must be licking his chops with all our injuries.

--I don't want to dwell on the guy too much, but can we agree that Chandler has, thus far, been a disappointment? The picture of him celebrating his TD actually sort of bugs me, because I feel like, "stop being so happy with yourself, catch a few more first." I'm sure he can be better, because he was better against the Pats in the past.

--When it comes to injuries, there's IR injuries and everything else. As long as guys will come back at some point, I'm more or less OK--although granted, Edelman admittedly pushes the boundaries of this. But bottom line, this team can be pretty damn complete come playoff time. I'll take that.

--Eli Manning is better than Aaron Rodgers. OK, I'll clarify: I think Eli is a rube, and is lucky as often as good. Rodgers is an elite talent. So, right, of course Rodgers is better....but c'mon, Aaron....stop being so worried about your interception stats. Against Denver, yesterday, good QBs simply try to make something happen. Spare me the talking heads showing the field and saying, "nobody was open," That will happen. Sometimes you have to force the issue.

--I keep wanting to hear Easley's name more...and I think we will. But I do hope it starts to happen soon.

--Ken, your point about Sheard back but the pass rush not being as effective I think misses the point that those two things are related. Sheard wasn't back at full-strength, so they had a rotation with a guy not firing on all cylinders, hence the drop in play/pressure. Look for a great effort next week, particularly with Collins back.

--I don't know that I've ever seen three worse plays in a row than on the final drive before Brady completed the 4th & 10. Holy cow. But there's 4 downs...they panned to the crowd on 3rd down, with fans screaming "two more!" and I thought, yeah, that's right. Brady'll get 10 yards in two plays.

--Not much to add on White, other than he's got to be more of the offense. The 3rd down back has been a key component for the Pats for 15 years, not stopping now.

--Back off on the defensive pass interference calls, refs, particularly against visiting teams. Good god, every incomplete pass over 10 yards is greeted with that big annoying rumble of "throw the flag!" Really makes the sport suck. Similarly, Amendola's return was a thing of beauty not least because there were no flags. Let 'em play the damn game already.

I think Brady is sick, in the illness sort of way. He looked gray, didn't have his usual animation, like he was husbanding what energy he could muster and had a vacant 5-mile stare when he wasn't actually interacting with someone. I know that when I'm operating on a load of Dayquil I get a little tunnel-visiony. Seems like he was, too. I wonder how many played yesterday with the bug that's been going through the lockerroom.

On Blount, I agree he's getting too upright. I recall that last year he credited his success to Fears getting him to lower his pad level. Time for some refresher coaching, Ivan.