Talk with Judge - Labor lawyer who deals with Unions every day

Ken Canin said:

I would be surprised if Wells permitted either a recording or a transcript of the Brady interviews to be made. Without a transcript or recording, he can claim Brady said whatever he wants. Even if there is a transcript, I doubt it will be released, for the same reason. It's how they convicted Scooter Libby: agents refused to allow a recording or transcript during an interview, then prosecuted him for lying based on their own notes. Libby had no recourse. Very common legal tactic.

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Didn't Donald Yee claim to have transcribed those interviews?

At the very least he took copious notes.

The Gr8est said:

Didn't Donald Yee claim to have transcribed those interviews?

At the very least he took copious notes.

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He did. He has it covered. I bet he recorded the session as well. That may have been negotiated prior to Brady agreeing to sit down with the Wells brownshirts.

shmessy said:

I agree 100% but actually, that IS the smart thing by Goodell.

He gets to tell the nation of haters that he did all he could and came down hard on Brady, it was just the NFLPA won their appeal. He'll make the suspension penalty unduly harsh so that it will be more probable that the NFLPA wins Brady's appeal.

For that reason, I'll be shocked if Goodell hands Brady a light penalty. Goodell will make it unduly harsh in order to assure an arbitration loss.

Ironic, I know.

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That is exactly his strategy. Everyone saves face.

Ken Canin said:

I would be surprised if Wells permitted either a recording or a transcript of the Brady interviews to be made. Without a transcript or recording, he can claim Brady said whatever he wants. Even if there is a transcript, I doubt it will be released, for the same reason. It's how they convicted Scooter Libby: agents refused to allow a recording or transcript during an interview, then prosecuted him for lying based on their own notes. Libby had no recourse. Very common legal tactic.

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I actually believe the exact opposite would be true. Wells wanted to appear objective, and creating a transcript of this quasi-deposition would be standard civil litigation practice.
Furthermore:

1) If Brady had said something noteworthy or indicative of guilt, they would need a record from which to pull his quotation. If they did not create a written record of the interview, then any of Brady's words they chose to use against him would instantly dissolve in an arbitration (e.g., the claim that Brady didn't know McNally.)

2) Wells couldn't stop any of Brady's representatives from taking notes or making a record.

I really needed a good perspective on this whole thing to put it in perspective of how this will go from here.
Kudos to the OP!

shmessy said:

I agree 100% but actually, that IS the smart thing by Goodell.

He gets to tell the nation of haters that he did all he could and came down hard on Brady, it was just the NFLPA won their appeal. He'll make the suspension penalty unduly harsh so that it will be more probable that the NFLPA wins Brady's appeal.

For that reason, I'll be shocked if Goodell hands Brady a light penalty. Goodell will make it unduly harsh in order to assure an arbitration loss.

Ironic, I know.

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Agree. Just wanted to add that I think the other 30 owners (to varying degrees) want to see a significant penalty - so Goodell has to worry about how they view his actions.

Heard on 98.5 last night that some other franchises (and fanbases) thought the Patriots got off easy after Cameragate w/ "only" a 1st round pick lost plus fines. Kind of amazing how substantial the double standard is. Next non-Patriots league scandal deserves to be an all out firestorm, based on this precedent. We know it won't be.

mosi said:

The issue here is that if these guys did release air after the fact to make sure the footballs were 12.5 - in a way I bet most other players do - that will come out in a trial.

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Meaning that Brady could be found to have directed the deflation of over-inflated balls down to the legally acceptable 12.5 psi level, after the referee had inspected those balls, and therefore he'd be culpable for a $25K fine per NFL rule book. I'm ok with that.

ForThoseAboutToRock said:

Agree. Just wanted to add that I think the other 30 owners (to varying degrees) want to see a significant penalty - so Goodell has to worry about how they view his actions..

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Why do you believe the 30 other owner want a significant penalty? Do you really think that they want their franchise subjected to this kind of injustice?

ForThoseAboutToRock said:

Heard on 98.5 last night that some other franchises (and fanbases) thought the Patriots got off easy after Cameragate w/ "only" a 1st round pick lost plus fines. Kind of amazing how substantial the double standard is. Next non-Patriots league scandal deserves to be an all out firestorm, based on this precedent. We know it won't be.

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They are uninformed and lazy. For anyone who travels frequently outside of New England, they are all over the place. It's astounding.

Dr Pain said:

70k fans with black armbands

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70K fans with Brady jerseys. If Kraft wants to send a message, they'll be available at reduced prices.

raduray said:

70K fans with Brady jerseys. If Kraft wants to send a message, they'll be available at reduced prices.

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Or free for people coming through the gates that evening. I love the idea of refusing to raise the SB banner until Brady is playing again.

awesome OP

I've been bringing this up in different contexts for days......it seems as though most haters out there see punishing brady the same as punishing kraft or bb....it is not

the biggest difference is that coach and owner are entities who are complicit in the hiring of the commissioner while you could say the player is on the other side via the CBA. Ownership criticisms of the commissioner do not carry merit since they are partially responsible for bringing him in.

especially critical is the point that is made about any appeals or arbitrations or any other legal action is that the NFL basis is the Well's report while Brady will have unlimited access to capabilities to tear the report apart.

This is why I believe there is an attempt going on by the commissioner to negotiate a punishment that will not be appealed, but I don't believe Brady will agree to anything that includes any kind of suspension.

this is what makes the notion of 6-8 games so ridiculous.

then again, it is also possible that the Brady camp has already decided to attack regardless of what the punishment will be....I believe the delay in a punishment handout is the commissioner blinking and in fear of retribution, fully realizing the implications of having this issue be argued outside his sphere of influence.

couple that with the fact that we're talking about a 37 year old QB who loves to play but does not need football anymore.

Ken Canin said:

I would be surprised if Wells permitted either a recording or a transcript of the Brady interviews to be made. Without a transcript or recording, he can claim Brady said whatever he wants. Even if there is a transcript, I doubt it will be released, for the same reason. It's how they convicted Scooter Libby: agents refused to allow a recording or transcript during an interview, then prosecuted him for lying based on their own notes. Libby had no recourse. Very common legal tactic.

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Yee has already said he has verbatim notes on the entire day. Unless Wells is the arbitrator, they will not have that option.

Best guess is that will not happen. Besides, they have to defend their "investigation"......

The good thing about all this? We're going to find out. Will Brady sue? We'll find out. Will the NFL send down a high number of suspensions, like 8, so that the arbitrator will reduce it to like 2 or 4? We'll find out. How much will this affect Brady's marketability? We'll find out. Will the Patriots move away from Brady as the centerpiece of their marketing strategy now rather than later? We'll find out. We're at where we're at. It is what it is. What happens next will be interesting to see.

reflexblue said:

I could go with this scenario up until 'brady gets a black mark' brady i don't think brady would accept that.

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You can thank Crybaby Grigson, Kensil and sports media for that. We were way past the point of avoiding that once the investigation got concluded and Wells submitted his Marvel's What If...? version of an 'investigation'.

robertweathers said:

Why do you believe the 30 other owner want a significant penalty? Do you really think that they want their franchise subjected to this kind of injustice?

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1. I think its plausible that they detect an imbalance of power in favor of Kraft and the Patriots. Perhaps they seek to ensure that the power Kraft holds doesn't turn into favoritism with respect to the the league's office.

2. I agree with your second sentence a lot, and think it's very wise to think about what kind of precedent it sets up for their own franchises. Yet, somehow I also think that they believe that they won't have these various kinds of 'gates blow down on their teams. There has seemingly been a steady upward trend in the severity of punishments. Part of this is the media's fault (they need something to latch onto), but it also reflects that the owners aren't necessarily pushing hard against Goodell.

ViperGTS said:

I do believe the union told him not to do diddly. I sure he was told not to turn it over. I'm also curious if they thought this could be a watershed moment as it relates to the NFL offices and leadership? It would be sweet if this was their Waterloo.

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From what I read, Brady refuses help from NFLPA before the interview in the investigation. Not sure why.
I dont know much of the legal stuff in the report but Goodell is going to use something abstract e.g "failure to cooperate" to hand down the discipline instead of just using the "probably " wordings. How it flies in arbitration and court I have clue.
My only hope is brady does fight this as we all expect him to instead of just an appeal and accepting it. Yee's words over last 2 days dont give a clear hint what they plan to do.

fnordcircle said:

You can thank Crybaby Grigson, Kensil and sports media for that. We were way past the point of avoiding that once the investigation got concluded and Wells submitted his Marvel's What If...? version of an 'investigation'.

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IMO Brady would never accept anything less than the un-conditional clearing of his name. So he won't accept the 'the public black eye'.

The Gr8est said:

Didn't Donald Yee claim to have transcribed those interviews?

At the very least he took copious notes.

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This gets me thinking .... I wonder if the McNally and Jastremski also had legal counsel present for their interview(s)?

raduray said:

70K fans with Brady jerseys. If Kraft wants to send a message, they'll be available at reduced prices.

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70K with brady jerseys would be rewarding the NFL , those jerseys would put a lot of money in they're pockets.