Talk with Judge - Labor lawyer who deals with Unions every day

Ken Canin said:

What about the timing: could Brady win an appeal before the season begins? Even if he wins, if he misses the pre-season practices and the early games, that puts the Patriots at a huge competitive disadvantage.

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I don't know the specifics here. I imagine preseason is fine as suspensions are for games. If the NFL acts quickly then there are four months to get it before arbitration before the season starts. Nobody here needs the distraction but the Patriots did just fine at the SB with a distraction.

Ken Canin said:

What about the timing: could Brady win an appeal before the season begins? Even if he wins, if he misses the pre-season practices and the early games, that puts the Patriots at a huge competitive disadvantage.

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If there is a suspension it shouldn't affect pre-season at all.

There should be more than enough time to get this done especially because it is not an insanely complicated case. Get 2-3 independent reports from physics departments of prestigious universities, get a few expert witnesses that tell how normal it is to give signed gifts to equipment guys and dump all the information that provides more context about the text messages that according to Yee was left out of the report.

This whole report is such a steaming pile of **** that if I didn't know better I'd be starting to wonder if Goodell and Wells were actually Brady fans who put out their "conclusions" just to appease the brain dead fans of the other 31, while knkwing full well the severe punishment they would hand down would never stand. Would be a win win for Goodell in this case. Brady doesn't get suspended but all the idiots all think he at least tried.

Ken Canin said:

What about the timing: could Brady win an appeal before the season begins? Even if he wins, if he misses the pre-season practices and the early games, that puts the Patriots at a huge competitive disadvantage.

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Even if he was suspended he still can practice and play in preseason. Now, you'd have to decide how much Jimmy G needs to play vs TB. I truly wonder if JG takes flight if TB sees the field in NE again a la Bledsoe. Fairly doubtful, but it at least could happen.

fnordcircle said:

From a legal standpoint that is my understanding too. But from a PR standpoint Kraft and the Patriots could be engaging in all-out war on behalf of the most important player in the history of the franchise. Kraft is a businessman but I don't think he's as gutless as people have been assuming. I really want to believe that there is a behind the scenes hand shake deal that has been made to get everyone out of this uninjured.

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The problem is that the damage has been done in the court of public opinion.

The issue here is that if these guys did release air after the fact to make sure the footballs were 12.5 - in a way I bet most other players do - that will come out in a trial.

My gut feeling -which makes me want to vomit - is that Brady gets an 8 game suspension - appeals and it is dropped to 4. This will not go to trial.

I have also read the report and I do agree, it is written in a biased, poorly written way. Not what I would expect from a paid investigative team.

mosi said:

The issue here is that if these guys did release air after the fact to make sure the footballs were 12.5 - in a way I bet most other players do - that will come out in a trial.

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And why would Brady be suspended for that ? If all he wants is the balls to be at the legal minimum and he told the guys to go to the refs with a copy of the rule in question during checkups, I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that he is the mastermind of some conspiracy here.

For all he knows the balls got better after he asked the two stooges to do that and never had to think about ball pressure again until January. I seriously have no idea where in the report there is even a little bit of evidence that indicates that a) somebody manipulated the balls after a ref inspection and b) Brady was aware that the balls were not deflated to 12.5 by the refs.

robertweathers said:

The problem is that the damage has been done in the court of public opinion.

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Well that just shows you how biased and uneducated fans really are. The one game after deflate gate Brady shredded the supposed greatest defense in the league. Oh btw in also the most watched football game ever.

People believe what they want to believe.

See the most damning thing in the wells report to me was Brady saying he didnt know who McNally was, but that was cleared up to me when i heard both Zolak in the radio and Bruschi say he was only around during game days at Gillette and everyone refers to him as Bird.

The Wells report has nothing on Brady. A suspension if issued would be to appease the masses that want blood, even when its not warrented. After reading about the Chargers penalty with the stickum, im starting to believe the Pats should have gone that way in not cooperating with Wells.

If the theory of Dr. Pain holds true, i.e. a hefty suspension overturned in the appeals process.. it would serve Goodell well, as he would attain the image that he tried to come down hard, but the arbitration process did not allow it..

When I was a Union Official this would sometimes happen, as it gives the illusion that the Administration is hard ass.. but in reality were just paper tigers who bastardized the system..

Without regard the damage is done, the theme of the press is our "golden boy" is a cheater and needs to be severely punished.. that cannot be changed. First I had issues with the term, "More probable than not" and now have issues with understanding what "generally aware" means in legalese... if More Probable than not is 51%, what is Generally Aware???

ViperGTS said:

It would be sweet if this was their Waterloo.

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Waterloo? How about Hiroshima?

Ken Canin said:

What about the timing: could Brady win an appeal before the season begins? Even if he wins, if he misses the pre-season practices and the early games, that puts the Patriots at a huge competitive disadvantage.

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Kiss his season goodbye for the most part. I doubt that the Pats would win the division and more than likely not get a wild card.

Ken Canin said:

What about the timing: could Brady win an appeal before the season begins? Even if he wins, if he misses the pre-season practices and the early games, that puts the Patriots at a huge competitive disadvantage.

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They can't suspend him until he get's his appeal, otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

RayClay said:

They can't suspend him until he get's his appeal, otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

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Precisely.
This raises a conundrum. Let's say it's a 4 game suspension. If Brady appeals, plays the season games but then loses somehow or gets the suspension reduced to 1 or 2 games, then those games could possibly be during the playoffs. BB might be conflicted on "doing what is best for the team" in wanting Brady NOT to appeal and just take the penalty early on.

AzorianPats said:

See the most damning thing in the wells report to me was Brady saying he didnt know who McNally was, but that was cleared up to me when i heard both Zolak in the radio and Bruschi say he was only around during game days at Gillette and everyone refers to him as Bird.

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I wouldn't be surprised if the full transcript of the meeting between Brady and the four lawyers actually includes a line where they say his name, he doesn't know who they are talking about and then somebody gives the nickname and he clears up that he knows who they are talking about. I am sure Yee will clear it up.

Great post, thanks for the hope.

Love the black armbands,
but I prefer visualizing Brady in uniform on that Thursday,
and lots of loud.

Also "violently agree".

Good writing, Dr. Pain.

***********
OT question

The hook was set, the real damage was done with the initial Mortensen lie bright and early Monday morning.

Following Brady's successful arbitration,
if the leak source is revealed as Goodell's office
would there be legal recourse for the team?

How is this not intentional damage?
*************
This could be the wedge to force Goodell out,
serious bad faith.


Yeah, I am prone to positive thinking....

robertweathers said:

The problem is that the damage has been done in the court of public opinion.

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Yeah, that's my issue with all this...sure the report is horsesh*t and would get torn apart in arbitration. Brady, as a union member, is not required to turn over personal property despite the Wells report labeling that as 'uncooperative' behavior. The NFLPA would have a field day with the psi measurement process, multiple gauges with different readings, assumptions on pre-game gauge use, etc. Any suspension would get overturned in arbitration, I'm incredibly confident of that.

What about this assassination of character (as Jeff van Gundy put it last night)? What about the weeks of breathless coverage leading up to the Super Bowl, once again giving the media and 31 other fan bases an excuse to label the Pats as cheaters? Brady's character and accomplishments will never, ever be seen for what they truly are ever again, just like Belichick with cameraplacementgate his legacy will forever be unfairly tarnished.

Can they undo that? No...**** em. I hope Brady's able to get out from any suspension, and I hope in his own way he's able to screw the NFL over time, get a little bit of revenge for this ********.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

How do you know they'll let Brady off the hook?

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I just heard two game suspension for Brady.

1960Pats said:

I just heard two game suspension for Brady.

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Two games too many. Brady needs to fight it and we will see where Kraft stands again. I am betting Jellyfish Bob appeases the Fuhrer again.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Precisely.
This raises a conundrum. Let's say it's a 4 game suspension. If Brady appeals, plays the season games but then loses somehow or gets the suspension reduced to 1 or 2 games, then those games could possibly be during the playoffs. BB might be conflicted on "doing what is best for the team" in wanting Brady NOT to appeal and just take the penalty early on.

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Do you really think at this point that they could make an agreement that will guarantee there is no interruption at a certain time? Remember how ridiculous this whole issue is and how ridiculous the report their suspension would need to be based on.

Brady needs to appeal and win his appeal and the league knows it because, unlike the idiot owners who agreed to make moron goodell a dictator with unlimited powers, he has a union and actual legal rights.

Say he loses an appeal and there's a suspension laid out for the playoffs. I would think, being a free citizen of the USA, Brady could sue and win in court and bring goodell and the leadership of the league down. Why? Because it would no longer be a defamation case. He gets paid more for the playoffs, no playoffs means no lucrative chance at the super Bowl, no super bowl means all his actual off season endorsements [not defamation, actual contracts based on his success in such playoffs] could be see as damages relating to his not being able to do his job.

Basically, this is much bigger than any one season. What if they vacate the next super bowl because Brady's socks are hiked up an inch too high? If given the opportunity as a citizen, endowed with unalienable rights as all individuals are per the constitution, to free all the NFL owners from this trap they put themselves in, we could at least have the game of football back.

Brady works for the patriots, not the league. He has a union, he has certain legal rights as a citizen.

The owners and teams have stupidly given up all their rights and moronidiot could conceivably fold the team or move it to LA if he wants, it doesn't seem there's any check on that[hyperbole]. Brady isn't a slave to the NFL though, he's an individual with a right to earn a living and a team that wants to employ him. He has a legal avenue beyond the union and the leagues appeal process IMO.