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My take on "Cap is Crap"


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Secondly, don't wanna hijack the thread but I urge you to google Sara Underwood.

Just to be clear to people if they do google Sara Underwood the one that bio talks about isn't the blonde playboy model that goes by Sara Jean Underwood.
 
Brady had the 5th highest cap number for a QB in 2005.
highest in 2006
2nd highest in 2008
4th highest in 2009
with a 17.4 million cap number in 2010 had have one of the top 5 highest cap numbers for a QB that year
5th highest in 2012
5th highest in 2013

http://patscap.com/brady.html

He got 14.6 in 2008 for total cap figure for that year which is what I am going by, Maybe you are going by different numbers or a different formula. I am going by what the cap figure was that year.

I don't know what every other QBs cap hit was that year but i find it hard to believe 14.6 was 2nd highest for 2008. If you are using a website could you send me the link so I could look at it too cause I can't find one that is easy to use.
 
I believe Brady's contract extension was unusually front loaded, despite it being well below market value, especially for the best quarterback of all time.

Remember all the cynical attention Brady received after renegotiating his contract? Haters were rabid in trying to proactively shout down any kind of "he took a paycut to help the team" talk.

And remember how the perpetually angry little men (Borges especially) promised the world that there was no way that Brady would play out his contract and that the proof would be in the 2015 season?

Well guess what, 2015 is here and Brady has shown every intention of honoring his contract. And yes, he took a significant cut in pay.

When you take his average yearly quarterback pay over the length of his contract, Brady is 17th in the league.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...s-know-that/LlkDXpi9zt6wTM9XmBE23J/story.html
 
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Felger forgets that when he started his cap is crap mantra he was advocating for the way the Jets were doing business paying Revis, Cromartie, Thomlinson, Scott, Pace, Ferguson, Woody and others large sums of cash. It bought them a two year window in which they did reach two AFCCG's. Since then they've had to dismantle and have sucked.

One of which was a gift, handed to them by two teams who thought it was smart to check out early having clinched their playoff spots and who subsequently laid down for them. The Jets shouldn't even have been IN the playoffs that year. I hate that that's always forgotten or glossed over.
 
I would love someone to reference this to F&M....

What's the point? They can't read and they don't know how to listen.

Felger's fugly face is probably the textbook picture next to the phrase, "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing." He learned that cap spending and cash spending are not the same thing, and rather than understand the differences and the way they affect each other, he came up with a short phrase he could remember so he could repeat it over and over and over as loudly and quickly as possible. It's something I'd expect from a 3-year old child, but certainly not any able-minded adult.

http://patscap.com/brady.html

He got 14.6 in 2008 for total cap figure for that year which is what I am going by, Maybe you are going by different numbers or a different formula. I am going by what the cap figure was that year.

I don't know what every other QBs cap hit was that year but i find it hard to believe 14.6 was 2nd highest for 2008. If you are using a website could you send me the link so I could look at it too cause I can't find one that is easy to use.

I haven't looked at this one before so not 100% certain how good it is, but looks fairly reliable.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/position/qb/2008

For some reason, that only goes to 2009. 2010 was uncapped and maybe they switched to something else. Spotrac picks up starting the 2011 season.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2013/cap-hit/quarterback/

Brady's $14.6M salary cap hit is correct, as was his ranking at #2 to Manning. Remember, the salary cap was only $116M in 2008. The franchise tag value in 2008 (based on the top 5 contracts of the previous year) was only $13.73M. This was long before guys like Jay Cutler were getting $18M a season...
 
Generally speaking talk radio (sports or other topics) thrives on negativity. There are a few exceptions with sports talk radio; specifically that early period when a team is on a noticeable rise from their previous level of performance. However, that honeymoon is short lived, as expectations ascend.

Taking the Boston market out of the equation, for comparison let's look at Tampa sports talk. Over the last twenty years they have been primarily positive twice: the first year the Sapp-Brooks-Lynch team went from losers to the playoffs, and the year they won the Super Bowl. Negativity towards the owner, GM, coach and QB was back by the following year.

Now here are the Patriots. Talking about how good the team is doesn't get nearly the ratings that something is wrong does. Talking about the unprecedented feat of four championships despite the double edged sword of a real salary cap and free agency, with the largest roster in pro sports - that doesn't produce ratings. Finding something - anything - to complain about does. It doesn't matter if the expectations are unrealistic; negativity gets people's attention far more than any intelligent constructive conversation does.

I don't think hosts like Felger even believe in what they say; their only concern is that the call-in board is lit up, and what the numbers are in the Arbitron book next month.
What interests me is why so many people listen and call? Is there really that large a deep-seated hatred of the Pats (and, to a lesser extent, the Red Sox and the Celtics)?
 
Since the Revis signing Felger and Mazz have spent even number days ranting about the cap being crap and Patriots being a cheap. On even number of days the shows theme revolves around the B's suckage due to mismanaging the cap and putting themselves in cap jail.

Even the ultimate DB should realize the hypocrisy of his statements. As many have said, we are lucky to be fans of a team that is in the hunt year in and year out despite a system designed to knock down good teams and prop up bad teams. Miguel, your efforts are appreciated.
Well, except that Felger bills the NHL as having a 'real cap' unlike the phoney baloney NFL cap.
 
Just to be clear to people if they do google Sara Underwood the one that bio talks about isn't the blonde playboy model that goes by Sara Jean Underwood.

I lol-ed so hard. If you google Sara underwood, it's safe to say it's not gonna be felger's wife that appears.
 
http://patscap.com/brady.html

He got 14.6 in 2008 for total cap figure for that year which is what I am going by, Maybe you are going by different numbers or a different formula. I am going by what the cap figure was that year.

I don't know what every other QBs cap hit was that year but i find it hard to believe 14.6 was 2nd highest for 2008. If you are using a website could you send me the link so I could look at it too cause I can't find one that is easy to use.

You do realize that you did not support your contention with facts but am asking me to do so. Please hold me to the same standard that you hold yourself;)
 
You do realize that you did not support your contention with facts but am asking me to do so. Please hold me to the same standard that you hold yourself;)

I plan to do a breakdown of it later today after work when I have time to crunch the numbers. The 20% was a rough guess and I do believe he has been at the very least under paid to a degree as I am sure we all do. We talk about how nice it is he takes pay cuts every year right? :p

I do hold myself to a standard of going by the facts and plan to and let the chips fall where they may.

Also I did not demand this poster produce facts I was illustrating my surprise if that turns out to be true and asking for resources that could help me get a break down of the numbers if he would be so kind to give them.
 
So, anticipatory speculative surprise. I am provisionally on-board with that :)
 
They were the first team to really understand the cap, and that's always going to be a part of the legacy..
This was the best part of your post and the most accurate

If you think on it, you'll remember that I'm one of the people who's been more attentive to the cap than most around here..... .[/QUOTE] Now there's a shock, DI taking another opportunity to pat himself on the back, while at the same time attempt to diminish what Miguel does for us by trying to force the rest of us to view HIS view of the cap thru his own lens.. :rolleyes

The reality of the cap is that, now that teams understand how it works, as long as it's increasing yearly, accounting maneuvers can be done in ways that make the threat of cap jail a very unlikely one. We've been seeing this since the last CBA. It doesn't make paying attention to the cap a bad idea or waste of time (far from it), and the new CBA addition of actual cash spending will likely make paying attention to the cap even more interesting as we move forward.
Here's where I think you get off the track. The "threat of cap jail" is not "unlikely" it's INEVITABLE if you follow the misnomer of the "cap is crap" any of its incarnations and half truths.

The first truism I learned from Miguel back in his KFFL days, before Ian stole him with a promise of a dedicated cap page was "for every dollar you give to one player, you have one less dollar for everyone else." Now BB is right in that there is SOME maneuverability that teams can choose to use....wisely. So I've come to understand the first rule of capology should be restated to this: For every dollar you give to one player, you have one dollar less for everyone else.....EVENTUALLY. Because just like the mortgage, eventually the hank has to get paid.

But HERE is where its easy for DI and others to get fooled by the cap, and think it isn't as severe as it could be. They think that as long as the cap number keeps going up, teams can escape "cap jail". But that's only half the truth. They forget that, for example, Team A might find itself needing a $15MM cap increase to stay out of cap jail, and they get it. , NOW, even though they find themselves "out of jail", they are also now $15MM BEHIND most of their competitors to compete to get FA's and keep their own. That debt didn't just "disappear" because the cap # went up. There are consequences, and ones that will hurt

I think we forget that there isn't any right or wrong with the cap. there are just CONSEQUENCES, and pretending they don't exist or are not important is just plain dumb. For example carrying over that $5MM to 2015 on Revis' contract might have cost us Vince and/or Browner, but OTOH, without that $5MM being available there wouldn't have been no Cassillas, Branch, etc.

The Pats do a LOT of incentive based contracts, so when you win a superbowl, or players stay healthy and productive, its going to cost you the next year, and it did. I don't know the exact number, but it was big, millions, and of course affected this off season. But it was a good problem for obvious reasons, but a problem, nonetheless.

So at the end of this overly long rant, what do we actually know about the cap.? 3 things

1. The cap is most certainly NOT crap.

2. Every cap decision has a consequence that eventually comes due We don't know whether it will be a positive or negative one. Only that there WILL be one. Only after some perfect 20-20 hindsight can we figure out the pluses and minuses.

3. Every dollar you give one player, there is one less dollar for everyone else....eventually. And if you forget the "eventually" part, you can't ever effectively manage the cap.
 
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1. The CAP IS Crap.

2. Said CAP is crap only if your players agree to deals that are structured in a way that can minimize potential dead money or high cap numbers. This is where Felger is completely wrong in his railing against the Patriots about Revis. He didn't even know the low full guarantees that Sherman and Peterson got. (Those deals both start rising in a year or so, but they can cut or restructure with minimal or no hit I beleive.)

You cannot take on 16 FG if you were the Pats. That is dumb CAP management. Another CAP is crap misnomer by those losers is "well the CAP is going up. It could be 160 next year! You'll have plenty of money!" Now it could be and quite possibly be so. This doesn't however mean the salaries stagnate. If McCourty got ~28 guaranteedand the CAP is 160 vs 142, is the market then 30-31? What will Hightower et al get vs what they would have gotten this year? My feeling is this dismantles their argument and wonder why no one has called in to bring this point up.

I don't know if any of this made any sense whatsoever, but please correct me where I may be wrong.
This makes no sense to me.
 
I rather not hijack the Jack Edwards thread with this so I decided to create this thread.

The entire "Cap is crap" concept diminishes the accomplishments of the best team of the salary cap era. If Michael Felger had performed a better job of reporting on the salary cap, I would have never felt the need to start my cap pages. If I did not understand something or do something well like report on the salary cap, I may also say that it is not important. Does not make it true.

Of course, I am a bit biased. I have been covering the Patriots salary cap since 2001. If the cap is indeed crap, I have been wasting my time:)

Most proponents of the "cap is crap" argument will never admit when they are wrong. A perfect example is some discussion we had on this message board around 2009-2010 about the slew of moves the Jets made, which included overpaying for Bart Scott, Mark Sanchez (and extending him!!), Antonio Cromartie, David Harris, and a slew of other players. The Jets went all-in, and many on here declared they would be in cap hell.

The opponents of this argument kept arguing there is no such thing as the cap in reality, and that the Jets and their "genius" Tannenbaum would just keep restructuring the deals for eternity to continue an influx of free agent talent for as long as needed.

We saw what happened to the Jets in 2012-14, and it wasn't pretty. The Jets had so much of their cap in dead money deals that had been backloaded, many of the players since departed. Their roster was filled with absurdly priced backups who cost more to cut than to keep. They had no money to maneuver, bring in replacement players, or fill holes anywhere.

Yet the proponents still argued they were not in "cap hell". Apparently, they wouldn't be in cap hell in those people's books until they had to forfeit every game because they couldn't afford to pay the veteran's minimum to 45 players.

The thing about "cap hell" is that teams often try to hide the fact that they've screwed themselves based on short-term decisions, so no GM is going to come out and admit that they are basically handicapped because they don't have the space. They'll bring in a new coach or say they are changing systems or hyping up draft picks; they always put a positive spin on it.
 
Felger has decided that all Patriots fans are just starry-eyed Belichick worshipers, and he's elected himself to be the voice of reason and will show all us Belichick groupies that we should start being critical of how the Patriots are running their business.

It's great for ratings.

Regardless, it's awesome to hear that Miguel won't lower himself to giving Felger any of his time. It would be an exercise in futility anyways. There's no way that Felger will accept any facts that blow his agenda out of the water. Him and his sidekick would just talk over Miguel as soon as he started to embarrass them
 
This makes no sense to me.


In what way? Hence why I asked for corrections. I know you are the CAP guru. Guess I'm saying if the players work with you and you identify the right players the CAP isn't useless but not as important (at least less so than many other teams). My use of Revis was meant to indicate a player who makes the CAP very important. Cap hit=salary. Not the way BB does business. Basically the cap is very real for some teams that spends like drunken sailors on average players.
 
1. The CAP IS Crap.

2. Said CAP is crap only if your players agree to deals that are structured in a way that can minimize potential dead money or high cap numbers. This is where Felger is completely wrong in his railing against the Patriots about Revis. He didn't even know the low full guarantees that Sherman and Peterson got. (Those deals both start rising in a year or so, but they can cut or restructure with minimal or no hit I beleive.)

You cannot take on 16 FG if you were the Pats. That is dumb CAP management. Another CAP is crap misnomer by those losers is "well the CAP is going up. It could be 160 next year! You'll have plenty of money!" Now it could be and quite possibly be so. This doesn't however mean the salaries stagnate. If McCourty got ~28 guaranteedand the CAP is 160 vs 142, is the market then 30-31? What will Hightower et al get vs what they would have gotten this year? My feeling is this dismantles their argument and wonder why no one has called in to bring this point up.

I don't know if any of this made any sense whatsoever, but please correct me where I may be wrong.

Do you understand what argument 'the cap is crap' entails? Because you seem to be arguing something else.
Saying the cap is crap means NFL teams are free to sign pretty much whoever they want and the cap really isn't a constraint, its just voodoo math. Is that really your opinion?
 
Do you understand what argument 'the cap is crap' entails? Because you seem to be arguing something else.
Saying the cap is crap means NFL teams are free to sign pretty much whoever they want and the cap really isn't a constraint, its just voodoo math. Is that really your opinion?

Cap is crap means that teams can sign whomever at however much salary they want. This is false of course. However, even BB said that the cap can be manipulated in may different ways. All I'm saying is if you area smart about the contracts you give out, cutting a player earlier than late, having players agree to restructures then you can manipulate the cap when you need to and thus rendering it less powerful than for other teams.

I guess in the end I'm trying to say that it's somewhere in the middle. It's not crap, but for certain teams it may seem that way.
 
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